Why does God care about Homosexuality?

[goraya15]

What do you think of punishing people for having gay sex, as many Muslim countries do?

It is not the job of people to punish other over their personal choices, unless it conflicts with social peace. As far as I know, the Holy Prophet never punished anyone unless they were a direct threat to the overall peace of society. So, it is wrong to punish gay people, it is merely our job to educate them. The Muslim countries who do so are under wrong assumptions.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Some gay people were the most intelligent! Da Vinci, thats the only one i know, but there is plenty. Gays dont need educating, there not animals Goraya.

 

[Melissa G]

Do ya think God had something against all the others who caught aids through blood tranfusions etc, maybe God likes a shotgun approach ? or maybe the virus was natural mutation from Green Monkey disease which jumped the animal to human gap. And like all viruses, it mutates and spreads. Smallpox, was that a curse from God as well, Smallpox killed anybody, like black plague. God is one bad hombre !

 

[Smoke]

Hate is such a strong word. I don't hate anyone. If I ever did, I would have to forgive them and cut it loose. Hate will eat you up inside and turn you into something that you are not.

Taking action to harm people who have not harmed you is hatred, or worse than hatred, no matter how warm and cuddly you are on the inside.

 

[goraya15]

Sorry, 57% is not a huge statistical anomaly. It's very close to random. This survey should show you that there has not been found any beneficial effect to intercessory prayer.

57% is not a statistically significant number?!? Hmm...what if I told you that 57%, or more then half, of cancer patients given a special treatment, along with regular treatment, recovered significantly better? Of course, it's not statistically significant in your eyes, so should we just ignore it?

Just some more food for thought, here's another study:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/6562/apologetics/smj.pdf

The main point to notice here is this:

Multivariate analysis of the data using the
variables listed in Table 2 revealed a significant
difference (P < .0001) between the two groups
based on events that occurred after entry into the
study. Fewer patients in the prayer group required
ventilatory support, antibiotics, or diuretics.

 

[Bathsheba]

HIV is mainly spread through people who are promiscuous, with the highest concentration being in homosexuals.

Global Aids Pandemic and Medical Students - HIV Demographics

RegionHIV-Positive IndividualsAdult (15-49) Prevalence (%)Newly infected with HIV (2005) Sub-Saharan Africa24.5 million6.12.7 millionNorth Africa and Middle East440,0000.237,000Asia8.3 million0.4930,000Oceania78,0000.3140,000Latin America1.6 million0.537,000Caribbean330,0001.637,000Eastern Europe and Central Asia1.5 million0.8220,000North America, Western and Central Europe2.0 million0.565,000TOTAL38.6 million1.04.1 million

Log In Problems

 

[goraya15]

So you've read all the holy books of all the world's religions and refuted them logically? Sounds awfully time-consuming to me.

No, I haven't, what a silly thing to say. I merely said that I would at least try to refute arguments thrown at me with a scriptural background with at least logic, instead of merely saying to someone that I don't believe in your scripture, so don't use it when speaking to me.

 

[McBell]

57% is not a statistically significant number?!? Hmm...what if I told you that 57%, or more then half, of cancer patients given a special treatment, along with regular treatment, recovered significantly better? Of course, it's not statistically significant in your eyes, so should we just ignore it?

Just some more food for thought, here's another study:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/6562/apologetics/smj.pdf

The main point to notice here is this:

Multivariate analysis of the data using the
variables listed in Table 2 revealed a significant
difference (P < .0001) between the two groups
based on events that occurred after entry into the
study. Fewer patients in the prayer group required
ventilatory support, antibiotics, or diuretics.

Since this is completely off topic, why not start another thread for it?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Taking action to harm people who have not harmed you is hatred, or worse than hatred, no matter how warm and cuddly you are on the inside.

No matter what the system allows, some people will be offended. How come when your offended you believe you are harmed, but if you had your way, you would offend others but they will not be harmed?

 

[Bathsheba]

So, it is wrong to punish gay people, it is merely our job to educate them. The Muslim countries who do so are under wrong assumptions.

Just for starters.

Sodomy Laws

&#8220;According to Iranian human rights campaigners, over 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979. Altogether, an estimated 100,000 Iranians have been put to death over the last 26 years of clerical rule.&#8221;

Iran

 

[goraya15]

Global Aids Pandemic and Medical Students - HIV Demographics

RegionHIV-Positive IndividualsAdult (15-49) Prevalence (%)Newly infected with HIV (2005) Sub-Saharan Africa24.5 million6.12.7 millionNorth Africa and Middle East440,0000.237,000Asia8.3 million0.4930,000Oceania78,0000.3140,000Latin America1.6 million0.537,000Caribbean330,0001.637,000Eastern Europe and Central Asia1.5 million0.8220,000North America, Western and Central Europe2.0 million0.565,000TOTAL38.6 million1.04.1 million

Log In Problems

Please, you have merely given an estimate in the above graph of the heterosexuals AT RISK, not those who currently have AIDS or HIV. If you want to play on statistics and estimated projections, take a look at these, MUCH CLEARER graphs:

Basic Statistics | Statistics and Surveillance | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

Transmission Category Estimated # of HIV/AIDS Cases, in 2005 Adult and Adolescent Male Adult and Adolescent Female Total Male-to-male sexual contact 18,296 - 18,296 Injection Drug Use 3,441 1,851 5,292 Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 1,324 - 1,324 High-risk heterosexual contact* 4,255 7,734 11,989 Other** 139 124 263

*Heterosexual contact with a person known to have, or to be at high risk for, HIV infection.
** Includes hemophilia, blood transfusion, perinatal, and risk not reported or not identified.


As you can see, Male to Male homosexuality actually has an estimated HIGHER number of people infected, despite their extremely relatively smaller population then heterosexuals, which would lead to a higher percentile infection rate in Homosexuals as well. Is there anything else to say on this? Homosexuals are more susceptible to the HIV virus, with high risk heterosexual contact (promiscuity) a close second.

Seems very, very similiar to the Islamic warnings laid out in the Qur'an, isn't it?

I would also be very interested to know in the risk of AIDS in strict muslim communities or such other people who hold the same view of no pre-marital sex. If anyone has a report on that, please kindly send it to me or post it.
​

 

[goraya15]

Just for starters.

Sodomy Laws

“According to Iranian human rights campaigners, over 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979. Altogether, an estimated 100,000 Iranians have been put to death over the last 26 years of clerical rule.”

Iran

Like I said, don't confuse so-called muslim countries politically motivated policies with true, Islamic Law. The clerics who rule those countries don't care about religion or Islam, they are only all out to keep their hold on power.

Same way like noone in their right mind would accuse the U.S of going to war with Afghanistan and Iraq as part of their christian faith.

 

[Smoke]

Like I said, don't confuse so-called muslim countries politically motivated policies with true, Islamic Law. The clerics who rule those countries don't care about religion or Islam, they are only all out to keep their hold on power.

Yeah, we're always hearing that the actions of a religion's adherents don't reflect on the religion, that "true" Islam and "true" Christianity are beautiful, peaceful, loving, and wise. It's too bad "true" Islam and "true" Christianity never seem to put in an appearance in the real world.

 

[Smoke]

No matter what the system allows, some people will be offended. How come when your offended you believe you are harmed, but if you had your way, you would offend others but they will not be harmed?

The harm to me is that I am denied equality under the law. It's real harm. Being offended because people don't accept your superstitions isn't real harm, or rather, there is real harm, but it's harm you do to yourselves.

If it offends me that I'm not allowed to steal from you, do you think I should be allowed to steal from you once in a while, because I have a right not to be offended? Or do you think your rights should take precedence?

 

[Autodidact]

Let me explain my whole position on this HIV thing. HIV is mainly spread through people who are promiscuous, with the highest concentration being in homosexuals. Now, it is also spread through the general public who are not promiscuous, per se, but do practice out of marriage sex. Now, all the things above have been condemned in the Holy Qur'an, with particular emphasis being laid on homosexuals.

SO...if a virus happened to crop up, in large numbers, at about the same time when homosexuals were starting to "come out of the closet" in large numbers, so to speak, and from that highest concentration, moved on to other sexually loose people, the logical conclusion for me would be to assume that it's a virus that targets those kinds of people. Now, looking to the Qur'an, God has specifically said how he sent a rain on the people of lot, who were openly sexually loose and saw no wrong in homosexuality, and they were destroyed. In the idiom of the Qur'an, every mention of punishment is not just a history lesson, it is a warning for future generations.

So...I would say yes. Through consequence of NON-ISLAMIC regard to sexual relations (homosexuality + promiscuity), a letahal virus has cropped up to discourage these practices, just like foretold in the Holy Qur'an. And in retrospect, God never punishes without sending warnings, in my opinion for non-muslims in the form of non-lethal STD's.

This view, that disease is a punishment from God, is an ancient, primitive view of disease. The modern view is that disease is caused by germs, viruses, and so forth, and can be prevented and treated by learning these causes and treating them. In general, we have found the more modern, scientific approach more effective in treating disease than the older, religious view. This difference may contribute to many Muslim countries having relatively lower life expectancies than the world's more secular countries.

 

[Autodidact]

Please, you have merely given an estimate in the above graph of the heterosexuals AT RISK, not those who currently have AIDS or HIV. If you want to play on statistics and estimated projections, take a look at these, MUCH CLEARER graphs:

Basic Statistics | Statistics and Surveillance | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

Transmission Category Estimated # of HIV/AIDS Cases, in 2005 Adult and Adolescent Male Adult and Adolescent Female Total Male-to-male sexual contact 18,296 - 18,296 Injection Drug Use 3,441 1,851 5,292 Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 1,324 - 1,324 High-risk heterosexual contact* 4,255 7,734 11,989 Other** 139 124 263

*Heterosexual contact with a person known to have, or to be at high risk for, HIV infection.
** Includes hemophilia, blood transfusion, perinatal, and risk not reported or not identified.


As you can see, Male to Male homosexuality actually has an estimated HIGHER number of people infected, despite their extremely relatively smaller population then heterosexuals, which would lead to a higher percentile infection rate in Homosexuals as well. Is there anything else to say on this? Homosexuals are more susceptible to the HIV virus, with high risk heterosexual contact (promiscuity) a close second.

Seems very, very similiar to the Islamic warnings laid out in the Qur'an, isn't it?

I would also be very interested to know in the risk of AIDS in strict muslim communities or such other people who hold the same view of no pre-marital sex. If anyone has a report on that, please kindly send it to me or post it.
​

And, as we keep telling you, the lowest rate is among lesbians. So what.
btw, does the Qu'ran take a position on female-female sex?

 

[Bathsheba]

Please, you have merely given an estimate in the above graph of the heterosexuals AT RISK, not those who currently have AIDS or HIV. If you want to play on statistics and estimated projections, take a look at these, MUCH CLEARER graphs:

Basic Statistics | Statistics and Surveillance | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS


Transmission Category Estimated # of HIV/AIDS Cases, in 2005 Adult and Adolescent Male Adult and Adolescent Female Total Male-to-male sexual contact 18,296 - 18,296 Injection Drug Use 3,441 1,851 5,292 Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 1,324 - 1,324 High-risk heterosexual contact* 4,255 7,734 11,989 Other** 139 124 263

*Heterosexual contact with a person known to have, or to be at high risk for, HIV infection.

** Includes hemophilia, blood transfusion, perinatal, and risk not reported or not identified.​

Unless otherwise noted, the data above is from the CDC HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report: HIV Infection and AIDS in the United States and Dependent Areas, 2005.

Did you look at the world wide numbers?

You are going to have a hard time proving that world wide HIV is spread mainly by homosexuals.

I'll just remind you of what you said earlier,

"HIV is mainly spread through people who are promiscuous, with the highest concentration being in homosexuals." You didn't qualify your statement or restrict your statement to a particular region.

 

[Bathsheba]

Like I said, don't confuse so-called muslim countries politically motivated policies with true, Islamic Law. The clerics who rule those countries don't care about religion or Islam, they are only all out to keep their hold on power.

That's not what you said, here, let me remind you.

"So, it is wrong to punish gay people, it is merely our job to educate them. The Muslim countries who do so are under wrong assumptions."

Name one Muslim country that in your opinion is ruled by true Islamic Law. If you can't then your statement above is basically meaningless IMO.

 

[Darkness]

It all seems very rational to me...but I suppose that's because I accept the existence of God, his goodness, and wisdom. I accept his revelations which explain the purpose of life. Central to that purpose is the union of males and females in marriage. God is pointing us in the direction which leads to eternal happiness and that happiness is based on the happiness that comes from the family with husband and wife. It is what it is, and I accept it. If I didn't believe in God, then I suppose none of this would make sense to me.

Homosexual men and women will not find eternal happiness in having a heterosexual marriage, not to mention earthly happiness. But you do not believe this simple truth because a book written two millennium ago tells you not to. This entire conversation is pointless because you can in no way tell me why God dislikes homosexuality, only that He does.

Lesbian sex is the best? Come on, even if it does have less chance of STD's and AIDS, it still falls much shorter then the chance of STD's and AIDS in the concept of matrimonial only-sex proposed by the Holy Quran, which is 0%.

First, you assume that a lesbian sex is not monogamous.

Second, because something is dangerous does not make it immoral. I do not see Muslims and Christians outraged with race car drivers.

 

[MoonWater]

Please, you have merely given an estimate in the above graph of the heterosexuals AT RISK, not those who currently have AIDS or HIV. If you want to play on statistics and estimated projections, take a look at these, MUCH CLEARER graphs:

Basic Statistics | Statistics and Surveillance | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS


Transmission Category Estimated # of HIV/AIDS Cases, in 2005 Adult and Adolescent Male Adult and Adolescent Female Total Male-to-male sexual contact 18,296 - 18,296 Injection Drug Use 3,441 1,851 5,292 Male-to-male sexual contact and injection drug use 1,324 - 1,324 High-risk heterosexual contact* 4,255 7,734 11,989 Other** 139 124 263

*Heterosexual contact with a person known to have, or to be at high risk for, HIV infection.

** Includes hemophilia, blood transfusion, perinatal, and risk not reported or not identified.​

As you can see, Male to Male homosexuality actually has an estimated HIGHER number of people infected, despite their extremely relatively smaller population then heterosexuals, which would lead to a higher percentile infection rate in Homosexuals as well. Is there anything else to say on this? Homosexuals are more susceptible to the HIV virus, with high risk heterosexual contact (promiscuity) a close second.​

Seems very, very similiar to the Islamic warnings laid out in the Qur'an, isn't it?​

I would also be very interested to know in the risk of AIDS in strict muslim communities or such other people who hold the same view of no pre-marital sex. If anyone has a report on that, please kindly send it to me or post it.​

You keep fogetting or ignoring the fact the HETEROSEXUAL sex is responsible for the creation and spread of far more STDS than homosexuality and that lesbian sex is responsible for far less than homosexual sex and carries the least amount of risk. We have brought this point up many times and your one counter was torn down easily. It is true that promiscuity has the greatest risk of transmitting AIDS and other STDS. And it also seems to be true that homosexuals tend to be more promiscuous than heterosexuals. However, did it ever occur to you that perhaps their promiscuity stems from the fact that they aren't allowed to be married? Did it ever occur to you that if homosexuals were allowed to get married they might be less promiscuous and therefore less likely to get AIDS? The other problem with your logic is that being married doesn't automatically make you immune to getting the disease. The only time marriage gets rid of the risk of getting an STD is if neither partner has an STD. If you happen to marry someone with an STD then your just as likely to get it having sex with that person as your likely to get it if you had sex with that same person and you weren't married. Making everyone get married before would not stop the spread of disease as those infected would still be able to spread it to their partners and their children. It might slow it down a bit but it would not stop it. The only way to truly stop the spread of STDS would be if those who had an STD became celibate. And that's not likely to happen.