Why does God hate Homosexuals and why did he create them?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I read it once. He wants me to re-read one section in particular. I think everyone should know about it, but I don't think I need to go back and review. I can retain the gist. I tend to guess that I know more about it than Fish-Hunter; that's my usual experience with Christians.

Hey... there's always a chance that if you read Romans 9, he'll read Romans 7, which might change his mind a bit if he pays attention to what it says.

 

[Autodidact]

My point is that Christians should not assume that atheists have not read or are not familiar with the Bible. Many of us are former Christians, including many who studied theology and exegesis, and that study led some to reject their former religion. (I have never been Christian myself.) To assume that everyone who disagrees with you is just ignorant is arrogant.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

My point is that Christians should not assume that atheists have not read or are not familiar with the Bible. Many of us are former Christians, including many who studied theology and exegesis, and that study led some to reject their former religion. (I have never been Christian myself.) To assume that everyone who disagrees with you is just ignorant is arrogant.

That's a good point. All I can do is encourage all of you to read and study the Bible for yourself until you believe.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's a good point. All I can do is encourage all of you to read and study the Bible for yourself until you believe.

It's had the opposite effect on me. I do see some good in it, but generally I agree with Mark Twain on the subject.

 

[Autodidact]

That's a good point. All I can do is encourage all of you to read and study the Bible for yourself until you believe.

That makes no sense. Why on earth would I choose the Bible to read over and over? Why not the Tao Te Ching or something coherent? Why would my goal be to believe something; shouldn't my goal be to find out the truth? Why would reading the Bible be the best way to do that? *Again, try to answer without assuming what you're trying to figure out.

To me, the Bible is just one more of many, many, religious books. Why would I spend all my time reading one when there are so many? Because it says that God had a son who rose from the dead? To me that's a red flag as to why not to read it, since it appears to be (1) false (2) derivative of earlier myths. Any why spend my time reading religious books at all? Why not science, which seems to be a much better route to truth? Or novels? Or poetry?

Instead of encouraging me, why don't you try persuading me? For example, do you have any evidence that the Bible is true? Or why it's important to understand what animals to sacrifice to the Priests of Yahweh and how to do it? Or why I need to know exactly how many tribes the Israelited committed genocide against? Why is this valuable reading material? Especially when, as I say, if I were interested in religious books, I could read wisdom like this:

The Tao is infinite, eternal.
Why is it eternal?
It was never born;
thus it can never die.
Why is it infinite?
It has no desires for itself;
thus it is present for all beings.

The Master stays behind;
that is why she is ahead.
She is detached from all things;
that is why she is one with them.
Because she has let go of herself,
she is perfectly fulfilled.

 

[Autodidact]

That's a good point. All I can do is encourage all of you to read and study the Bible for yourself until you believe.

You're missing the point. Reading the Bible helps me not believe. The more I read it, the less I believe, especially when I come across weird stuff like this:

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

How is reading this weird stuff going to cause me to believe?

 

[Azakel]

I think the biggest reason that you should consider reading the Bible is that by not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are calling God a liar.

1 John 5:10:
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

And I think that the biggest reason that you should go and read and look into other Gods is that by not doing so you are calling them lairs.

 

[fantome profane]

That's a good point. All I can do is encourage all of you to read and study the Bible for yourself until you believe.

Fish-Hunter, have you read any other holy books or religious texts from other religions? If so what? If not why not?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How is reading this weird stuff going to cause me to believe?

I think that passage speaks more to men than to women.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Fish-Hunter, have you read any other holy books or religious texts from other religions? If so what? If not why not?

I started reading the Bible in my late twenties. I was quite the pagan hedonist partier in my youth and read books that were not Christian. I am now 47 and look at life through the lenses of Scripture. Sometimes a forget that most of the world views life very differently. This forum site is a sobering wake-up call.

 

[McBell]

Fish-Hunter, have you read any other holy books or religious texts from other religions? If so what? If not why not?

I started reading the Bible in my late twenties. I was quite the pagan hedonist partier in my youth and read books that were not Christian. I am now 47 and look at life through the lenses of Scripture. Sometimes a forget that most of the world views life very differently. This forum site is a sobering wake-up call.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Father Heathen]

So you think just by reading a silly book, it will make people magically believe in it? If you read the Koran, would you turn into a Muslim? Or Hindu just by reading the Vitas?

The funny thing is, reading the bible is the very thing that helped a lot of people become atheists. There is nothing really impressive or inspiring about the savagery of bronze age goat herders and their ability to shamelessly rehash older pagan myths.

 

[Mike182]

I started reading the Bible in my late twenties. I was quite the pagan hedonist partier in my youth and read books that were not Christian.

actualy Pagan? if not, what are you using the word Pagan for?

I am now 47 and look at life through the lenses of Scripture. Sometimes a forget that most of the world views life very differently. This forum site is a sobering wake-up call.

that's fine, no one here has a problem with you doing that. my only question is, would you vote pro-gay rights or anti-gay rights?

 

[Green Gaia]

actualy Pagan? if not, what are you using the word Pagan for?

Silly Mike... don't you know that "pagan" is synonymous with everything evil in this world? :slap:

 

[Fish-Hunter]

So you think just by reading a silly book, it will make people magically believe in it? If you read the Koran, would you turn into a Muslim? Or Hindu just by reading the Vitas?

The funny thing is, reading the bible is the very thing that helped a lot of people become atheists. There is nothing really impressive or inspiring about the savagery of bronze age goat herders and their ability to shamelessly rehash older pagan myths.

Hi Father Heathen,

The Bible is a book of revelation that is intentionally concealed to many, and revealed to a few undeserving wretched sinners for God's good pleasure. Check out these bible passages. How do you know if you are an elect of God? Only by reading the Scriptures and see what happens.

1 Thessalonians 2:13:
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

Luke 24:45:
Then he (Jesus) opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

2 Peter 3:16:
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

1 Corinthians 2:14:
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[sojourner]

God reavels His morally perfect will through the Holy Bible. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. How do you determine right from wrong Penguin. Why is your view more right than mine? The Bible reveals the One True God and what He is like. The Bible also reveals what our duty is to Him, and what He requires from us (His perfect and holy commandments to His creation). God has spoken in the Holy Scriptures, and if you continue to go against Him in personal rebellion, you will lose because you are but from the dust. God is love, holy and just for starters. Because of God's perfectly Holy nature, sin and rebellion against Him cannot and will not go unpunished. His divine justice is served in only two ways, because there will be two humanities.

Genesis 19

Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."
"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof."

9 "Get out of our way," they replied. And they said, "This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We'll treat you worse than them." They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

12 The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry [aa] his daughters. He said, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!" But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.

15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished." 16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. 17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, "Flee for your lives! Don't look back, and don't stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!"

This pericope is not about the sin of homosexuality. it's about the sin of inhospitality. It appears that the sin of inhospitality is being committed again and again these days...

 

[Fish-Hunter]

actualy Pagan? if not, what are you using the word Pagan for?



that's fine, no one here has a problem with you doing that. my only question is, would you vote pro-gay rights or anti-gay rights?

Paganism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pro-gay rights? Please give me an explanation of what you mean by pro-gay rights. I live in a very liberal part of the country (Pacific Northwest).

 

[GayAtheist]

The story of sodom and gamorrah may be inhospitality, or gay rape, who knows, but it appears to justify incest as well!

 

[sojourner]

The story of sodom and gamorrah may be inhospitality, or gay rape, who knows, but it appears to justify incest as well!

"aappears" being the operative term here. Actually, it portrays what happens when we're unwilling to wait for God's grace, and try to create it ourselves.

 

[Autodidact]

I started reading the Bible in my late twenties. I was quite the pagan hedonist partier in my youth and read books that were not Christian. I am now 47 and look at life through the lenses of Scripture. Sometimes a forget that most of the world views life very differently. This forum site is a sobering wake-up call.

I take that as a no, then, you have not studied any other religious texts? But you expect me to read yours over and over? You won't extend the same courtesy to anyone else? That doesn't seem fair.