So, an atheist is unforgivable, while a child raping murderer can be forgiven. That makes me wonder why most christians complain about a cosmic justice, because that doesn't seem like justice to any reasonable person.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why does homosexuality seem to get more hate?
- Thread starter MoonWater
- Start date
So, an atheist is unforgivable, while a child raping murderer can be forgiven. That makes me wonder why most christians complain about a cosmic justice, because that doesn't seem like justice to any reasonable person.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Reason isn't necessary when you have faith.
How very true. But can you have faith and be reasonable?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
God's bruised ego is a far more urgent concern than the victimization of children.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Some people can.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
My honest answer is this. I am an evangelist and have spent my entire Christian walk trying to spread the message. It has been the number one cause of my life throughout that time. The issue of homosexuality has been one that I'm feeling stronger about as time goes on and preaching that same sex marriage is man's divine right gains traction. Though I actually think the bigger issue is gay/lesbian couples being allowed to adopt children. So far I've only b**ched and moaned about the issues surrounding homosexuals. If you're looking to call someone out for spending a disproportionate amount of time on issues of less importance than what should be the focus you won't be able to do it in this case. Though there are plenty of other areas of life that I need to do better in.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Your argument regarding natural law and your assumed unnatural aspect of homosexuality looks like you are begging the question.
I'm already disturbed by the thought of what kind of response you and Jungle25 would give if I brought up intersex.
gnomon
Well-Known Member
Accountable for what? Pointing out ignorance where it exists.
You should be thanking me.
edit: But yes. I'm an arrogant jerk. That fact, however, holds no relevance in this thread.
Why?
If accepting Christ or not is the thing that will determine the fate of a child's soul, shouldn't you be more worried about non-Christians adopting children than same-sex couples?
Personally, I can only make sense of one way that same-sex couples adopting children would be bad from a Christian perspective: it makes a child aware that the ideas of "God is love" and "God hates homosexuality" are incompatible. You can't convince someone that homosexuality is sinful lust if they've seen a loving, caring, same-sex relationship firsthand.
But why even do that much? If you're a "sola fide" Christian, then why worry about homosexuality at all?
As it's been presented to me, if a person has the Holy Spirit living in and working through them, then the right actions will happen as a matter of course, just as a reflection of the indwelling Holy Spirit. OTOH, if a person doesn't have the Holy Spirit, then any "right" action they do is hollow. No?
So where does a concern about homosexuality in and of itself come from? Even if homosexuality is a sin, it's only an issue in that it's a signal that the person has not been saved, so once salvation is taken care of, the homosexuality will correct itself... right?
Yeshe Dawa
Lotus Born
Hi Kepha31!
Do you have a link for the full text of Joseph Unwin's paper? I try to be diligent and read all your links, but they don't have much more than what you quote in your posts, and like this one, they are paraphrases from Catholic editorials. I'm not understanding which societies he studied and where he got his data. Are there any more current studies that have similar conclusions, as this is a secondhand report of research from 1935? I tried GoogleScholar but didn't find anything.
I was confused about a few things after reading the article. Wouldn't it make more sense if the "outburst of homosexuality" is a result of a percentage of the population that has remained steadily constant but for one reason or another is no longer repressed than for the percentage of homosexuals in the population to suddenly increase? Also, I'm not an historian, but I can't think of a culture right off where the number of homosexuals suddenly exploded and caused their downfall, and the article doesn't name names.
Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:
T-Dawg
Self-appointed Lunatic
Irony.
Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God
- Martin Luther
Martin Luther quotes
kepha31
Active Member
You will have to go to a university with an extensive library on anthropology or info on the British Psychological Society to find Joseph Unwin's paper. I know of no modern data that suggests there are more homosexuals per capita because there is no reliable frame of reference from past decades. You don't need more people to have an outburst in public behavior. One thing for sure, the suicide rate has remained the same while social acceptance of homosexuality has increased. So they can't blame high suicide rates (14 times more than heterosexuals) on social pressures.
Homosexual activists often justify homosexuality by claiming that ten percent of the population is homosexual, meaning that it is a common and thus acceptable behavior.
But not all common behaviors are acceptable, and even if ten percent of the population were born homosexual, this would prove nothing. One hundred percent of the population is born with original sin and the desires flowing from it. If those desires manifest themselves in a homosexual fashion in ten percent of the population, all that does is give us information about the demographics of original sin.
But the fact is that the ten percent figure is false. It stems from the 1948 report by Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. The study was profoundly flawed, as later psychologists studying sexual behavior have agreed. Kinseys subjects were drawn heavily from convicted criminals; 1,400 of his 5,300 final subjects (twenty-six percent) were convicted sex offendersa group that by definition is not representative of normal sexual practices.
Furthermore, the ten percent figure includes people who are not exclusively homosexual but who only engaged in some homosexual behavior for a period of time and then stoppedpeople who had gone through a fully or partially homosexual "phase" but who were not long-term homosexuals. (For a critique of Kinseys research methods, see Kinsey, Sex, and Fraud, by Dr. Judith Reisman and Edward Eichel [Lafayette, Louisiana: Lochinvar & Huntington House, 1990].)
Recent and more scientifically accurate studies have shown that only around one to two percent of the population is homosexual.
Homosexuality
Here are more resources for you.
Articles of Interest to Courage Members
waitasec
Veteran Member
ok,
so if you were told as a heterosexual you could not marry...
would you have premarital sex?
kepha31
Active Member
Human salvation demands the divine disclosure of truths surpassing reason.
Thomas Aquinas
Law is nothing other than a certain ordinance of reason for the common good, promulgated by the person who has the care of the community.
Thomas Aquinas
Most men seem to live according to sense rather than reason.
Thomas Aquinas
Reason in man is rather like God in the world.
Thomas Aquinas
Saint Thomas Aquinas Quotes - BrainyQuote
Reasons last step is the recognition that there are an infinite number of things which are beyond it.
St. Blaise Paschal
Faith/Reason
The Harmony of Faith and Reason
The Harmony of Faith and Reason (This Rock: April 2003)
Sorry, T-Dawg. Martin Luther was not only wrong, he was mentally ill.
Art of Attack: Springtime for Luther and Germany!
Spirited
Bring about world peace
I have never heard of a major world religion not looking down upon the aforementioned crimes/sins.
I think the reason homosexuality is under so much focus is that the other sins mentioned are already illegal in most forms.
Murder is illegal.
Illicit drug use is illegal.
Cheating on your spouse before a divorce can cause you to lose rights to property etc..
Beating your spouse is illegal.
Homosexual marriage is being argued for in court which is where all the heated debate comes from. Also, very few social groups argue that any of the above things are acceptable.
So more or less, all major forms of sin, as described in most religious texts, are already against the law in many countries. Homosexuality however, is still being debated and as a political issue, it's fairly new. If a large group of people took murder to the supreme court and argued for it's acceptability, I assure you the issue of homosexuality would be tossed onto a back burner.
I think the reason homosexuality is under so much focus is that the other sins mentioned are already illegal in most forms.
Murder is illegal.
Illicit drug use is illegal.
Cheating on your spouse before a divorce can cause you to lose rights to property etc..
Beating your spouse is illegal.
Homosexual marriage is being argued for in court which is where all the heated debate comes from. Also, very few social groups argue that any of the above things are acceptable.
So more or less, all major forms of sin, as described in most religious texts, are already against the law in many countries. Homosexuality however, is still being debated and as a political issue, it's fairly new. If a large group of people took murder to the supreme court and argued for it's acceptability, I assure you the issue of homosexuality would be tossed onto a back burner.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
The best way I can try to get you to understand how a Christian feels about homosexuality is to ask you to imagine how you'd feel if something you consider to be evil was preached to your kids as something perfectly acceptable to engage in. You couldn't help but be angry right?
Judge not lest ye be judged.
Any wonder why (so called) Christianity is being bounced right out of public way of life?
You judgmental types done did this to yourself.
-Peacemaker-
.45 Cal
I assume you never make moral judgments about behavior?
Yeah I get mad when people try and explain to my kids that something is evil just because some book says so. There should be much better reasoning than that.
To me evil has to do with causing intentional harm. If what a couple does in their bedroom is causing harm then they are doing it wrong.
I do.
And then they come back and bite me in the booty.
In a totally heterosexual way, of course.