Why does homosexuality seem to get more hate?

[Yeshe Dawa]

You will have to go to a university with an extensive library on anthropology or info on the British Psychological Society to find Joseph Unwin's paper. I know of no modern data that suggests there are more homosexuals per capita because there is no reliable frame of reference from past decades. You don't need more people to have an outburst in public behavior. One thing for sure, the suicide rate has remained the same while social acceptance of homosexuality has increased. So they can't blame high suicide rates (14 times more than heterosexuals) on social pressures.

Homosexual activists often justify homosexuality by claiming that ten percent of the population is homosexual, meaning that it is a common and thus acceptable behavior.

But not all common behaviors are acceptable, and even if ten percent of the population were born homosexual, this would prove nothing. One hundred percent of the population is born with original sin and the desires flowing from it. If those desires manifest themselves in a homosexual fashion in ten percent of the population, all that does is give us information about the demographics of original sin.

But the fact is that the ten percent figure is false. It stems from the 1948 report by Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. The study was profoundly flawed, as later psychologists studying sexual behavior have agreed. Kinsey’s subjects were drawn heavily from convicted criminals; 1,400 of his 5,300 final subjects (twenty-six percent) were convicted sex offenders—a group that by definition is not representative of normal sexual practices.

Furthermore, the ten percent figure includes people who are not exclusively homosexual but who only engaged in some homosexual behavior for a period of time and then stopped—people who had gone through a fully or partially homosexual "phase" but who were not long-term homosexuals. (For a critique of Kinsey’s research methods, see Kinsey, Sex, and Fraud, by Dr. Judith Reisman and Edward Eichel [Lafayette, Louisiana: Lochinvar & Huntington House, 1990].)

Recent and more scientifically accurate studies have shown that only around one to two percent of the population is homosexual.
Homosexuality

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Hi Kepha31!

That was what I found when I tried to look up Unwin - it's not available on any of the usual databases. I don't know about a 10% figure for homosexuals - that seems kind of high to me, the 1 or 2% makes more sense. That was kind of my point - there aren't any more homosexuals now than there used to be, they just don't have to hide themselves (as much, anyway) for fear of persecution.

I read your links - you obviously are very knowledgable about your faith and the positions of the Church, and I respect that. The arguments are very solid for Catholics, as they appeal to the authority of the Church. For non-Catholics (like myself), citations from the CatholicAnswers website and the Catholic anti-homosexuality apostolate's website might not be viewed as objective, scholarly sources.

I'm just not convinced that allowing homosexuals to live openly is going to somehow destroy society, and I haven't seen any studies that seem to indicate that. I appreciate you taking the time to give me the Catholic answer to my questions, but I guess in the end I have to say I disagree with the Catholic church on this issue.

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:

 

[Father Heathen]

I have never heard of a major world religion not looking down upon the aforementioned crimes/sins.

I think the reason homosexuality is under so much focus is that the other sins mentioned are already illegal in most forms.

Murder is illegal.

Illicit drug use is illegal.

Cheating on your spouse before a divorce can cause you to lose rights to property etc..

Beating your spouse is illegal.

Homosexual marriage is being argued for in court which is where all the heated debate comes from. Also, very few social groups argue that any of the above things are acceptable.

So more or less, all major forms of sin, as described in most religious texts, are already against the law in many countries. Homosexuality however, is still being debated and as a political issue, it's fairly new. If a large group of people took murder to the supreme court and argued for it's acceptability, I assure you the issue of homosexuality would be tossed onto a back burner.

The difference is that murder and spousal abuse victimize the innocent. If what consenting adults do harms none then it shouldn't concern anyone else. Laws need to be based on real world cause and consequence, not on irrational, unsubstantiated hocus pocus nonsense. Rights, freedom, equality, justice, science and secularism are what make the western world great.

 

[Father Heathen]

I assume you never make moral judgments about behavior?

It's better to make moral judgements based on reason and compassion rather than upon the superstitious, arbitrary cultural norms of ancient, primitive savages. The bible instructs people on how to sell their own daughter into sexual slavery, for example. What sane, reasonable person uses that garbage as a moral compass in the modern world?

 

[Father Heathen]

The best way I can try to get you to understand how a Christian feels about homosexuality is to ask you to imagine how you'd feel if something you consider to be evil was preached to your kids as something perfectly acceptable to engage in. You couldn't help but be angry right?

Imagine how you'd feel if something you consider to be perfectly acceptable was preached to your kids as something evil to engage in.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have never heard of a major world religion not looking down upon the aforementioned crimes/sins.

I think the reason homosexuality is under so much focus is that the other sins mentioned are already illegal in most forms.

Murder is illegal.

Illicit drug use is illegal.

Cheating on your spouse before a divorce can cause you to lose rights to property etc..

Beating your spouse is illegal.

Heresy is illegal.

Denying the Holy Spirit is illegal.

Simony is illegal.

Working on the Sabbath is illegal.

Becoming angry with your brother is illegal.

Pocketing a Eucharistic Host is illegal.

Oh... wait. None of those are illegal, are they?

So they're not sins?

Take the Ten Commandments: out of all 10 (none of which even mention homosexuality, BTW), only 2 of them (don't steal, don't murder) are crimes under current Western law. Even if we accept your argument that adultery is de facto illegal because it can lead to civil penalties, you could still violate all of the other 7 (keep the Sabbath holy, don't make idols, etc.) in front of a police officer without getting arrested, because you wouldn't be breaking the law.

Homosexual marriage is being argued for in court which is where all the heated debate comes from. Also, very few social groups argue that any of the above things are acceptable.

So more or less, all major forms of sin, as described in most religious texts, are already against the law in many countries. Homosexuality however, is still being debated and as a political issue, it's fairly new. If a large group of people took murder to the supreme court and argued for it's acceptability, I assure you the issue of homosexuality would be tossed onto a back burner.

No, that's not true. I mean, take freedom of religion: in the view of most religions, freedom of religion basically amounts to the freedom to engage in heresy. Yet I've never heard of any serious campaign in North America to get rid of it. In fact, we tend to hold it up as a virtue... even religious people.

What's wrong with approaching homosexuality in the same spirit? If being raised by same-sex parents won't make a kid any more hellbound than being raised by someone of the "wrong" religion, then why get any more upset about marriage equality than you do about freedom of religion?

The best way I can try to get you to understand how a Christian feels about homosexuality is to ask you to imagine how you'd feel if something you consider to be evil was preached to your kids as something perfectly acceptable to engage in. You couldn't help but be angry right?

But what does that have to do with same-sex marriage?

I mean, I'm in an opposite-sex marriage myself, and I'm going to teach my (future) kids that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality. Most people I know in RL are taking the same approach with their kids, and almost all of them are in opposite-sex marriages.

Edit: virtually every survey about it has shown that acceptance of homosexuality has increased generation over generation. If you don't want kids to be taught that homosexuality is okay, then it's not same-sex couples that you need to be worried about; it's younger couples generally.

 

[gnomon]

The best way I can try to get you to understand how a Christian feels about homosexuality is to ask you to imagine how you'd feel if something you consider to be evil was preached to your kids as something perfectly acceptable to engage in. You couldn't help but be angry right?

You propose to speak for Christianity.

And people are calling me arrogant.

Many Christians find the notion that homosexuality is a sin, that the practice of homosexuality is a sin or that anything to do with homosexuality and sin to be absurd.

They are not angry at all regarding anything to do with homosexuality except some of them are angry at people like you.

 

[Tristesse]

The best way I can try to get you to understand how a Christian feels about homosexuality is to ask you to imagine how you'd feel if something you consider to be evil was preached to your kids as something perfectly acceptable to engage in. You couldn't help but be angry right?

If the US made it illegal for christians to marry based on the fact that the majority of citizens found them to be evil, vile, sinful individuals, would that be alright with you? Please answer honestly.

No one is preaching that you should become gay, you either are or you aren't. What should be preached is, that if you are gay, there's nothing wrong with that.

What I find detestible, is people marginalizing the rights of others based on their own personal belief. And especially spreading misinformation about it, to fulfill their own means.

 

[waitasec]

No one is preaching that you should become gay, you either are or you aren't. What should be preached is, that if you are gay, there's nothing wrong with that.

i don't understand why some cannot understand that...

people who think like this are saying that if we give homosexuality an inch it'll take a mile because more people will become gay are also saying that everyone is born with bi-sexual tendencies...

 

[Tristesse]

i don't understand why some cannot understand that...

people who think like this are saying that if we give homosexuality an inch it'll take a mile because more people will become gay are also saying that everyone is born with bi-sexual tendencies...

I think more people will come out as gay, because they're in an environment that is welcoming of sexuality. But what wont happen is straight people suddenly becoming gay. Thats not how it works and I don't understand why people think that it is.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

i don't understand why some cannot understand that...

people who think like this are saying that if we give homosexuality an inch it'll take a mile because more people will become gay are also saying that everyone is born with bi-sexual tendencies...

It makes sense when you understand that many who are ardently homophobic are also closet homosexuals.

 

[idav]

i don't understand why some cannot understand that...

The mentality of those who bully people who are different hasn't changed much. Just like those bullying someone who is homosexual would likely also bully wiccans and atheists for not being christian or god believers. It's elitism which unfortunately bible god is the author of.

 

[otokage007]

It's better to make moral judgements based on reason and compassion rather than upon the superstitious, arbitrary cultural norms of ancient, primitive savages. The bible instructs people on how to sell their own daughter into sexual slavery, for example. What sane, reasonable person uses that garbage as a moral compass in the modern world?

AMEN! :yes: