Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Hawkins]

I don't think I've ever seen a convincing answer.

Logically these are the possibilities I can see:

1. God doesn't exist.
2. God exists but is powerless to intervene.
3. God exists and could intervene, but he doesn't care about human suffering, perhaps he set it all up and then got bored with his new pets?
4. God exists and could intervene, but this would be against the rules of his grand experiment in which humans have to suffer because ( insert convoluted reason here ). Though we might wonder why he gave humans the capacity to steal, murder and wage war in the first place, why didn't he design humans to be much nicer, more caring, less selfish? We might also wonder about why God designed humans bodies so they would get cancer and all those other diseases.

5. God exists and chooses not to intervene with a good reason which human intelligence may not reach easily.

Genesis warned: The tree of knowledge is something that you choose to eat from it, the same day you shall surely die. It simply says that your intelligence is not reliable when used to judging God.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

5. God exists and chooses not to intervene with a good reason which human intelligence may not reach easily.

Genesis warned: The tree of knowledge is something that you choose to eat from it, the same day you shall surely die. It simply says that your intelligence is not reliable when used to judging God.

It means when we choose to eat from it we become fully self-aware of ourselves, making us aware that we are like other humans and we then know what if feels like when we do bad things to others; and we also become aware of our mortality which is what makes us fully self aware and no longer innocent like the animals. The Tree of Knowledge/Garden of Eden is allegory for all of that, and a pretty neat package well ahead of its time. I doubt the same author came up with God having Abraham almost sacrificing Isaac. He should have told God to take a hike. You wouldn't believe how many Christians have told me they'd sacrifice their children if God told them to. Puts a different light on it when you drag that appalling idea out of antiquity and into the modern world

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Working the existence of God into free will is convoluted and unnecessary.

If God exists and created the universe to spawn us with free will, it means free will is a means to a purpose. You call it convoluted (which it isn't) simply because you don't like the idea of God in the first place, and you want to take our purpose and go home.

 

[psychoslice]

fairy tales?.....what is that blue skinned avatar about?

Yes he was a fairy tale also, its the meaning of what the tale points to that Is important, but you see your story as literal and believe all other stories as fales.

 

[Neo Deist]

Is the deistic God moral? Or somehow rewarding morality?

Who truly knows what God is like? All we have are theories and speculation, based on our observations of the world around us.

I have witnessed both good and evil acts. People suffer needlessly while criminals run rampant. Children die due to horrendous conditions or from tragic events. The only explanation that I have as to how a creator deity allows any of that to happen, is that we have free will. God does not intervene with any free will thought or action. That does not mean that God is not saddened by the choices we make, or the events that unfold. But if God intervened, it is no longer free will.

I ask because I have no clue about the tenets of deism. What I have in mind is that He does not care, basically. But I might be wrong.

Ciao

- viole

Deism is not a religion, per se. It is more of a philosophy and it is based on YOUR personal observations of nature. In other words, deists don't see randomness in creation, they see order and purpose. There is no deist church, deist bible or deist priest hierarchy. We reject that stuff because it is all man made, and copied from what came before. There is not a modern religion on earth that has a unique aspect to it. Everything that is, has simply been re-branded.

Deists do pray, but most of the time it is a prayer of thanks (for life, food, shelter, family, friends, etc). Basically an acknowledgement of the life given to us.

We normally do not ask for stuff because that would go against the concept of free will. An example would be someone who smokes and then gets lung cancer. Christians will pray their hearts out for healing (and never get it). Deists simply accept that they made the choice to smoke knowing the potential consequences, and accept the outcome of said choice.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I don't think I've ever seen a convincing answer.

Logically these are the possibilities I can see:

1. God doesn't exist.
2. God exists but is powerless to intervene.
3. God exists and could intervene, but he doesn't care about human suffering, perhaps he set it all up and then got bored with his new pets?
4. God exists and could intervene, but this would be against the rules of his grand experiment in which humans have to suffer because ( insert convoluted reason here ). Though we might wonder why he gave humans the capacity to steal, murder and wage war in the first place, why didn't he design humans to be much nicer, more caring, less selfish? We might also wonder about why God designed humans bodies so they would get cancer and all those other diseases.

Here's another possibility: God exists and has some power to intervene, but is not omnipotent, and therefore unable to prevent all suffering.

 

[Thief]

Yes he was a fairy tale also, its the meaning of what the tale points to that Is important, but you see your story as literal and believe all other stories as fales.

my story?....

the Carpenter told stories.....

I see the logic therein

 

[psychoslice]

my story?....

the Carpenter told stories.....

I see the logic therein

Logic, ha.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Who truly knows what God is like? All we have are theories and speculation, based on our observations of the world around us.

I have witnessed both good and evil acts. People suffer needlessly while criminals run rampant. Children die due to horrendous conditions or from tragic events. The only explanation that I have as to how a creator deity allows any of that to happen, is that we have free will. God does not intervene with any free will thought or action. That does not mean that God is not saddened by the choices we make, or the events that unfold. But if God intervened, it is no longer free will.



Deism is not a religion, per se. It is more of a philosophy and it is based on YOUR personal observations of nature. In other words, deists don't see randomness in creation, they see order and purpose. There is no deist church, deist bible or deist priest hierarchy. We reject that stuff because it is all man made, and copied from what came before. There is not a modern religion on earth that has a unique aspect to it. Everything that is, has simply been re-branded.

Deists do pray, but most of the time it is a prayer of thanks (for life, food, shelter, family, friends, etc). Basically an acknowledgement of the life given to us.

We normally do not ask for stuff because that would go against the concept of free will. An example would be someone who smokes and then gets lung cancer. Christians will pray their hearts out for healing (and never get it). Deists simply accept that they made the choice to smoke knowing the potential consequences, and accept the outcome of said choice.

The first thing I changed when I left Christianity and started thinking as a deist was prayer. What's the point. If God does exist, It won't intervene and It knows our thoughts presumably, so.... It was decades later before I gave up belief in prophesy, fate or divine providence since they would all be anti-free will. It was very hard to stop thinking that way.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Here's another possibility: God exists and has some power to intervene, but is not omnipotent, and therefore unable to prevent all suffering.

The problem is there is no evidence of God having prevented any suffering.

 

[Thief]

Logic, ha.

so....you have better logic?

well then.....intervention when you need assistance should not be expected

not that God would intervene...anyway....

I do believe He is waiting for us to die.....and then he will be there to see what stands from the dust.

 

[Thief]

The problem is there is no evidence of God having prevented any suffering.

well I for one had a very 'odd' feeling right before a car accident.

that 'feeling' prompted me to look for the seat belt.....
( the straps had slid between the cushions and lay on the floorboard behind me.....out of reach)
then I elbowed my door lock
then I turned my back to the door.
then I slid my butt forward to the edge of the bench seat......
then the driver wanted to know if I felt alright....
I said yea.....just drive the car....

then it was over

if I had been sitting upright....I would have gone through the windshield....
and you would not be enjoying my character

God preserved?
I think so.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

God preserved?

More likely just an example of self-preservation based on intuition and experience.

 

[Thief]

More likely just an example of self-preservation based on intuition and experience.

I thought that.....but.....

there was no cause around me to be nervous.
nothing to indicate a drunk driver would attempt a left turn in front of us

happened so fast the guy driving the vehicle never hit the break.

60 to 0.........

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

well I for one had a very 'odd' feeling right before a car accident.

that 'feeling' prompted me to look for the seat belt.....
( the straps had slid between the cushions and lay on the floorboard behind me.....out of reach)
then I elbowed my door lock
then I turned my back to the door.
then I slid my butt forward to the edge of the bench seat......
then the driver wanted to know if I felt alright....
I said yea.....just drive the car....

then it was over

if I had been sitting upright....I would have gone through the windshield....
and you would not be enjoying my character

God preserved?
I think so.

Aw c'mon, you must certainly have started your trip with a prayer. Otherwise why would you not have looked for a seat belt in the first place? But then when you started to demonstrate a lack of faith in your prayer request, God decided toll give you a good scare to teach you a lesson. It's so obvious. I mean, your can completely rule out coincidence.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I cannot accept that being mad and upset is natural. It is a reaction, that I will give you, however, in my world it is a bad reaction that needs to be checked. It is a sin that requires repentance, restitution and forsaking. I rarely get mad and upset anymore. It is non-productive and benefits no one. I have a reasonable control over my reactions. I have found that by being in controls give you a better perspective and judgement and therefore a better chance of resolving the issue.

Being angry is not a sin, what we do with that anger can be.

Eph 4:26-27 (ESVST) 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil.

 

[Ve Zivko]

• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith in God to keep His commandments.

What is dangerous about this belief is that people who suffer the most in life through no fault of their own are encouraged to accept their current situations rather than do something to change them for the better. Everyone goes through dark times like losing close friends and relatives through natural causes or illness or experiencing failure in something that they have invested a lot of time and effort in, these are normal parts of life but there are abnormal parts of life as well like being raped or having close friends or relatives murdered or anything else that is tragic and is not supposed to happen. The people who experience abnormal parts of life are being preyed upon by this belief as they become desperate because their outlook on life has become very dark. Desperate times call for desperate measures which in this case is believing that as long as they maintain their faith in a higher power, who's existence is highly unlikely according to scientific fact, they will be rewarded in the afterlife which also most likely does not exist according to scientific fact. These vulnerable people are also encouraged to perceive their abnormal circumstances as a normal part of life, a test from the higher power, something they are told that everyone goes through in some shape or form, and regardless of how dark their world and outlook on life has become as a result of their circumstances, they must maintain their faith or they will not seen to be worthy to enter paradise no matter how kind they might be as people, so they are led to believe that there are no good times in life and there is nothing to look forward to until death. This stops people from turning their lives around and bettering themselves as they believe that their ultimate fate, their soul, is in the hands of someone else, so essentially lives are being wasted on this belief. People believing that they have nothing to live for, which is what this belief makes them do whether they know it or not, is when they want their life to end. This belief is said to improve a person's life and their outlook on life but how can a life and an outlook on life be improved by this belief when this belief leads people to desire death?

 

[Thief]

Aw c'mon, you must certainly have started your trip with a prayer. Otherwise why would you not have looked for a seat belt in the first place? But then when you started to demonstrate a lack of faith in your prayer request, God decided toll give you a good scare to teach you a lesson. It's so obvious. I mean, your can completely rule out coincidence.

was never one to bother the Boss....without grief already in play....

and in those days the seat belt law was not even thought of....
that plastic housing that holds the belt.....not yet invented.

spared a premature death?.....yeah
given warning to duck?......yeah

scared?..............no............
there was only that 'feeling' to respond to

 

[OurCreed]

You're making your case with a myth? And even if it was true, it would merely show that we don't have free will--but then why bother with Creation.

D'you ever wonder about the Exodus? All those miracles, including God accompanying them in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night (although later on it was just and angel in the pillar). But the minute Moses turns his back, they're making a golden calf--with the pillar still there!!! Could the wonder and power of all those miracles have ever worn off, much less so quickly?

And then what about the big one, the parting of the Red Sea "by a strong east wind". Any idea how strong that wind would have to have been, not only part the sea but to make a wall of water on their left and on their right? It would have blown them right back into Pharaoh's lap, camels and all, in pieces.

Sort of like the story of Jonah and the whale, though it was called a big fish, and we don't know which is was because they didn't know that whales weren't fish. Just sayin'.

Many of the miracles from the exodus are metaphors of what actually happened. The splitting of the sea wasn't really the splitting of the sea. It was just the difference between low-tide vs. high-tide. And you're throwing the word miracle around like it means breaking set laws of the universe. That's not what a miracle is. A miracle is a phenomenon that occurs which stretches the current belief of what can or should happen given the current understanding of the laws.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Many of the miracles from the exodus are metaphors of what actually happened. The splitting of the sea wasn't really the splitting of the sea. It was just the difference between low-tide vs. high-tide. And you're throwing the word miracle around like it means breaking set laws of the universe. That's not what a miracle is. A miracle is a phenomenon that occurs which stretches the current belief of what can or should happen given the current understanding of the laws.

It says twice that the wall stood as a wall on their left and their right. That isn't tides. How does the Sun stand still? Or water cover the whole Earth? Or bodies resurrect? Or we receive divine revelations?

I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that what's written is allegory or misinterpretation or lies, but you can't have it both ways. How do we determine which is which except through the agency of some self-appointed prophets? Hands off is a much better explanation because it explains all such phenomena, with the reason that God is hands off. The problem that comes with your perspective is how do you know what is miracle and what is not?