• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Rick O'Shez said:
I don't think I've ever seen a convincing answer.

Logically these are the possibilities I can see:

1. God doesn't exist.
2. God exists but is powerless to intervene.
3. God exists and could intervene, but he doesn't care about human suffering, perhaps he set it all up and then got bored with his new pets?
4. God exists and could intervene, but this would be against the rules of his grand experiment in which humans have to suffer because ( insert convoluted reason here ). Though we might wonder why he gave humans the capacity to steal, murder and wage war in the first place, why didn't he design humans to be much nicer, more caring, less selfish? We might also wonder about why God designed humans bodies so they would get cancer and all those other diseases.
Click to expand...

I believe option 1, 2 and 3 don't exist.

I believe 4 works for the first sentence but the rest has problems.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Muffled said:
I believe that was the question Jesus asked: whether the suffering could be avoided and still accomplish the objective. The fact that He went to the cross shows that there was no other way.
Click to expand...
So your god is not omnipotent?

There's no logical contradiction in believing that God isn't omnipotent, but it's not a view that's commonly held by Christians, IMO.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
9-10ths_Penguin said:
So your god is not omnipotent?

There's no logical contradiction in believing that God isn't omnipotent, but it's not a view that's commonly held by Christians, IMO.
Click to expand...
allow me to say....God set the scheme if things in motion ....and the motion has rules.....
if He flexes against His own design.....won't that design fail?
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Thief said:
allow me to say....God set the scheme if things in motion ....and the motion has rules.....
if He flexes against His own design.....won't that design fail?
Click to expand...
So God designed the universe to require cruelty in order to function?

What do you think this position implies about your god?
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
God does intervene but not in a magical superhero manner. God sends His Prophets with a Covenant which offers happiness and success in return for obedience to it. The Covenant consists of various laws and teachings and are the way God intervenes in human affairs.

So for instance, take the law of consultation. If it is properly followed according to the explicit directions, a peaceful outcome is guaranteed. God's intervention is that He has endowed proper consultation with an invisible power to unite if the right ingredients are there. If we choose our ways, as you can see, they are a failure.

Man made consultation involves things like the veto but God's method of consulting contains many spiritual conditions which, when applied, solves all problems because He has invested His method with success which, if we use it, is His "intervention". Now it's up to us to choose our method. He doesn't wave a magic wand. He gives us the choice to use His magic wand or not. So far, humanity believes it knows better so doesn't even look at God's ways. A real pity.
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
Muffled said:
I believe one can cede one's will to Jesus and then He can intervene and does. I would imagine that I have avoided a lot of suffering that comes from excessive drinking , doing drugs, and having sex outside of marriage.
Click to expand...

You don't get points added for turning your brain off, but you might get points subtracted.

Thief said:
I say....with 7billion copies of a learning device on this planet......
the odds bode well....there is a Supreme Intellect somewhere nearby, I hope so
Click to expand...

The only difference between deism and atheism is hope.
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
viole said:
Since we can't tell if there is a God or not, and if there is one which one He is, who can blame them?

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...

Because we can logically eliminate all of the candidates for God but deism's. Thus we're left with deism or atheism, and the only difference between those choices from our vantage point is hope.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
ThePainefulTruth said:
Because we can logically eliminate all of the candidates for God but deism's. Thus we're left with deism or atheism, and the only difference between those choices from our vantage point is hope.
Click to expand...

Hope? Do deists hope, and if they do, what do they hope for?

Ciao

- viole
 
Neo Deist

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
viole said:
Hope? Do deists hope, and if they do, what do they hope for?

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...

Yes, we do hope.

I hope for a good afterlife (if there is one), and I hope that my actions as a moral person would grant me said afterlife.

What we don't do as deists is come up with a bunch of ritualistic crap, man made religious laws, male chauvinistic holy texts, or place blame on some type of evil, supernatural, boogeymen (devils/demons) that an omnipotent creator can't do anything about.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Neo Deist said:
Yes, we do hope.

I hope for a good afterlife (if there is one), and I hope that my actions as a moral person would grant me said afterlife.

What we don't do as deists is come up with a bunch of ritualistic crap, man made religious laws, male chauvinistic holy texts, or place blame on some type of evil, supernatural, boogeymen (devils/demons) that an omnipotent creator can't do anything about.
Click to expand...

Is the deistic God moral? Or somehow rewarding morality?

I ask because I have no clue about the tenets of deism. What I have in mind is that He does not care, basically. But I might be wrong.

Ciao

- viole
 
ThePainefulTruth

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
viole said:
Hope? Do deists hope, and if they do, what do they hope for?

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...

Pretty much what Neo said.
Is the deistic God moral? Or somehow rewarding morality?
Click to expand...

Personally I think morality rewards itself, being it means that person's head is screwed on right and will fit in and not be wanting to push the oblivion button thinking of all the evil he'd done. Of course Neo and I have considerable differences on what morality is, or what you can hyphenate deism with.

I ask because I have no clue about the tenets of deism. What I have in mind is that He does not care, basically. But I might be wrong.

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...

There's basically only one tenet, God (with an agnostic caveat) doesn't interfere. But it would make no sense that God wouldn't care. Why go to all that trouble and then walk away or otherwise just not care. The could-care-less clock maker idea is a 19th century holdover from Christianity, trying to make people feel better with a personal God who answers prayers, ostensibly. In fact, the only idea I can come up with for God creating us is for companionship and independent thought born of free will. What would God do without us. Angels would only be hand puppets after all, as would demons.

As America's second most famous deist once said, "
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."--Thomas Jefferson
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top