Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[loverofhumanity]

I am sure that you must know this fact that there are people that walk the same earth as you and I who wear the title of being super rich. Not multi millionaires but multi billionaires. Just one of these lovely people could feed every destitute child who is on the verge of losing their lives to disease and malnutrition and still remain super rich. Why don't they? God is waiting for mankind to show some empathy and compassion by these animals. He is waiting to see if we can pass the trails and tribulations that we have to endure, to see if we love Him and our fellow man. I fear that most of us will fail miserably.

You do not have to apologise for, or justify, your beliefs. If what you believe in makes you happy, and creates a better person, then you are among those offering a hand down to those who are struggling to climb that mountain that we all have to climb. There will be no Christians in heaven, or any other religious beliefs because they will be all fulfilled. I am a Christian and probably will be for the rest of my days, however, I could just as easily be a Muslim or a Jehovah Witness, who are equally as pious and who probably do far more than us in living a righteous existence. In fact, much of what I believe is akin to Pantheist.

I am glad that you recognize that things are getting worse because there are those, on here, who are enthralled with science,
and who have gone with the flow of immortality, who think that things are wonderful on earth right now. Those starving children do not think that things are getting better, that is for sure.

Serenity, love your awesome post. You're so wise and thoughtful. I'm so mad that we have so much wealth as a human race undreamed of by the Pharoahs and Kings of the past and yet unparalleled deaths from lack of food and medicine. Yet there seems to never be shortage of TRILLIONS$$$ for war and bombs. For killing there's so much money but for life there's none. So sad.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's what people say just before they load it up with every emotion in the book.



The odds for or against God are non-existent either way. The only thing left, then, is hope.



Change those who we've followed to those who are master power mongers who excel at manipulating our emotions, especially fear--and I'm with you. And it's the halls of churches and government buildings they've always haunted, ever since the stone age.



Or won't intervene. THE God, if there is one, won't interfere since it would negate our free will, the ostensible purpose for the universe in the first place. You're arguing against the easy target, revealed religion.



Self-appointed messengers. Capitalism has barely been tried, and with one hand tied behind it's back or or milked by government officials at that. You're slick, I'll give you that. But I'd have to believe in the Devil to think that stench of sulfur was anything but natural. Looks like they've got a new breed of political operatives out here.

You make some good points. I still think that we haven't tried a lot of great ideas yet and until we have we can't say they won't work. For instance to balance aggression have more female leaders and in all fields of work, consultation to replace conflict, promoting a universal concept as opposed to selfish national interests. A lot of our current problems could be mitigated by adopting a world vision rather than a national one. If we did what was in the best interests of humanity we would solve more problems. Just pushing national agendas is only creating conflicts and wars. There's a better way.

 

[Serenity7855]

The whole cosmos is one whole intelligence, not in the sense that we call intelligence, its no a personal being out there doing all the work, its the whole cosmos doing the work and we are that cosmos for all is one

Well that is an easy one to answer, not many brains cells are needed to write such a prejudiced posts, like yours, announcing that God does not exist, and believing it. It obviously requires much more to intelligently deduce that logically a God must be a reality and cosiderably less to suggest that He doesn't.

 

[psychoslice]

Well that is an easy one to answer, not many brains cells are needed to write such a prejudiced posts, like yours, announcing that God does not exist, and believing it. It obviously requires much more to intelligently deduce that logically a God must be a reality and cosiderably less to suggest that He doesn't.

I write what I feel is true to me, I cannot believe in fairy stories that were written by who knows who over two thousand years ago, but if you want to then that's up to you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I write what I feel is true to me, I cannot believe in fairy stories that were written by who knows who over two thousand years ago, but if you want to then that's up to you.

I think we are all seekers of truth and are all continually learning from life itself, our experiences, our interactions with others and the universe and through our own investigations. But we are all at a different stage of our life journey so we need to accept that not all will have come to the same conclusion. All are just wanderers.

I know very little almost nothing when I see the immensity of space and science and life. I think we are here to evolve into higher life forms as well as to advance civilisation here and help others to evolve.

I believe ultimately we are not our body but of an invisible essence. We just exist but we can't see, touch, feel or smell our own existence (the self) All we can do is be aware that we exist but we are not our bodies. When we die, we know energy cannot be destroyed so we take on another form I would think and then advance in that realm in that form according to the rules of that existence.

But there are so many mysteries and unknowns that I am myself positive about the existence of God as my journey in life has taught me that life is connected to some form of Will that perpetuates our existence. What makes a flower grow or the sun to keep shining? What makes life keep on keeping on? There is something that causes existence to keep continuing and it is separate from existence itself like a TV is connected to an outside source for it to function.

 

[psychoslice]

I think we are all seekers of truth and are all continually learning from life itself, our experiences, our interactions with others and the universe and through our own investigations. But we are all at a different stage of our life journey so we need to accept that not all will have come to the same conclusion. All are just wanderers.

I know very little almost nothing when I see the immensity of space and science and life. I think we are here to evolve into higher life forms as well as to advance civilisation here and help others to evolve.

I believe ultimately we are not our body but of an invisible essence. We just exist but we can't see, touch, feel or smell our own existence (the self) All we can do is be aware that we exist but we are not our bodies. When we die, we know energy cannot be destroyed so we take on another form I would think and then advance in that realm in that form according to the rules of that existence.

But there are so many mysteries and unknowns that I am myself positive about the existence of God as my journey in life has taught me that life is connected to some form of Will that perpetuates our existence. What makes a flower grow or the sun to keep shining? What makes life keep on keeping on? There is something that causes existence to keep continuing and it is separate from existence itself like a TV is connected to an outside source for it to function.

Yes I agree with all you said, we are all connected, and yes we are more than the mind body organism, we are the pure Source or Consciousness, but while there is the mind body organism we are under its senses, but then how could we enjoy this life without them.

 

[idea]

Serenity, love your awesome post. You're so wise and thoughtful. I'm so mad that we have so much wealth as a human race undreamed of by the Pharoahs and Kings of the past and yet unparalleled deaths from lack of food and medicine. Yet there seems to never be shortage of TRILLIONS$$$ for war and bombs. For killing there's so much money but for life there's none. So sad.

Pareto principle....

 

[loverofhumanity]

Pareto principle....

So true! We people need to take our world back from the corrupt. By us getting together and building a new world for ALL people not just the corrupt few.

We need a new system based on justice and fairness to all and we're going to have to build it ourselves.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

You make some good points. I still think that we haven't tried a lot of great ideas yet and until we have we can't say they won't work. For instance to balance aggression have more female leaders and in all fields of work, consultation to replace conflict, promoting a universal concept as opposed to selfish national interests. A lot of our current problems could be mitigated by adopting a world vision rather than a national one. If we did what was in the best interests of humanity we would solve more problems. Just pushing national agendas is only creating conflicts and wars. There's a better way.

I remain open to new ideas, like the female thing, but that's not really new. We're still moving in the right direction, but perhaps too fast. As we're seeing, they aren't immune to the temptation of power and corruption any more than men. In some ways, they're worse.

About the world vision, it's great if we could find (which I have btw) a truly objective and universal moral code. But there are two problems. 1) Getting 51% of the world to agree with it; and 2) The more you concentrate power, the faster we move toward a corrupt government. The 20th century saw up to 180 million people killed by their own governments--which was much greater than the military and civilian deaths as a result of war as long as they don't count genocide or intentional famine.

Yet we become socialists in the name of compassion, with all too many people willing to be victims, and all to many bureaucrats willing to "care" for them if they accept the necessary controls,loss of freedom and transfer of power.

The UN Declaration of Universal Rights sounds good, at least some of them, but then you come to Article 29 (3):
"These rights and freedoms may in no
case be exercised contrary to the purposes
and principles of the United Nations."

Which brings us back to used toilet paper.

There's an old song from the 70's by Edwin Starr they still play, called War. Good song about how bad war is, and what non-maniac wouldn't agree. But at the end all it comes up with is, "Lord knows there's got to be a better way". I don't think anybody has the first idea what that might be.

I believe in 4 human rights which must be equal for all: to life, liberty, property and self-defense. If you don't exercise the latter, you will loose the other three.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist.

I don't think I've ever seen a convincing answer.

Logically these are the possibilities I can see:

1. God doesn't exist.
2. God exists but is powerless to intervene.
3. God exists and could intervene, but he doesn't care about human suffering, perhaps he set it all up and then got bored with his new pets?
4. God exists and could intervene, but this would be against the rules of his grand experiment in which humans have to suffer because ( insert convoluted reason here ). Though we might wonder why he gave humans the capacity to steal, murder and wage war in the first place, why didn't he design humans to be much nicer, more caring, less selfish? We might also wonder about why God designed humans bodies so they would get cancer and all those other diseases.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I don't think I've ever seen a convincing answer.

Logically these are the possibilities I can see:

1. God doesn't exist.
2. God exists but is powerless to intervene.
3. God exists and could intervene, but he doesn't care about human suffering, perhaps he set it all up and then got bored with his new pets?
4. God exists and could intervene, but this would be against the rules of his grand experiment in which humans have to suffer because ( insert convoluted reason here ). Though we might wonder why he gave humans the capacity to steal, murder and wage war in the first place, why didn't he design humans to be much nicer, more caring, less selfish? We might also wonder about why God designed humans bodies so they would get cancer and all those other diseases.

There's a fifth (IF God exists): God cannot interact in the universe because even our knowledge of It's possible existence would undermine our free will. Every senseless death is a commitment by that God to our free will--the one and only reason it would have created the universe in the first place. I call it The Prime Directive.

You may ask, can that justify the suffering? I have to say we can't answer that except from the perspective of looking back on this life, this test, from the Hereafter. And if there is none, then there is no God, or God is an irrational sadistic a*****e--which would be irrational itself.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There's a fifth (IF God exists): God cannot interact in the universe because even our knowledge of It's possible existence would undermine our free will. Every senseless death is a commitment by that God to our free will--the one and only reason it would have created the universe in the first place. I call it The Prime Directive.

Sorry but that's far too convoluted to be convincing.

....then there is no God, or God is an irrational sadistic a*****e--

Actually those look like the most rational possibilities to me.

 

[arthra]

I think this life allows us the opportunity to choose what path we can take... Every day we can choose a path that is noble and caring toward others or we can choose a path that ignores others and is shall we say more materialistic and self centered... The example of the lives of God's Messengers and Prophets show us a way.

Yes we can be born with physical and material limitations.. but it's how we cope with these or how we can ameliorate the suffering of others who are less capable than us than can make a difference. Noble caring and ethical principles can be found in the teachings and exemplary lives of spiritually advanced souls.... this is the opportunity of this life.

Had God created us without any suffering in this life there would also be no need for us to grow and develop spiritual principles... it would be a laboratory of automatons fed by umbilical cords.. not much challenge or growth potential.

​

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Sorry but that's far too convoluted to be convincing.

What's convoluted about free will.

Actually those look like the most rational possibilities to me.

"No God" is as rational. The other, as I said, is irrational, albeit irreverently humorous. You imagine God might partake of self-deprecating humor?

 

[Thief]

The odds for or against God are non-existent either way. The only thing left, then, is hope.

I say....with 7billion copies of a learning device on this planet......
the odds bode well....there is a Supreme Intellect somewhere nearby

I hope so

 

[Thief]

I think this life allows us the opportunity to choose what path we can take... Every day we can choose a path that is noble and caring toward others or we can choose a path that ignores others and is shall we say more materialistic and self centered... The example of the lives of God's Messengers and Prophets show us a way.

Yes we can be born with physical and material limitations.. but it's how we cope with these or how we can ameliorate the suffering of others who are less capable than us than can make a difference. Noble caring and ethical principles can be found in the teachings and exemplary lives of spiritually advanced souls.... this is the opportunity of this life.

Had God created us without any suffering in this life there would also be no need for us to grow and develop spiritual principles... it would be a laboratory of automatons fed by umbilical cords.. not much challenge or growth potential.

​

nay.....unless you had some means to choose your parents and their life style

 

[Thief]

What's convoluted about free will.



"No God" is as rational. The other, as I said, is irrational, albeit irreverently humorous. You imagine God might partake of self-deprecating humor?

I believe God is the source of emotion
installed from the beginning into Man....with reboot on each occasion

ever see a baby smile?
they don't have to be taught

 

[Thief]

I write what I feel is true to me, I cannot believe in fairy stories that were written by who knows who over two thousand years ago, but if you want to then that's up to you.

fairy tales?.....what is that blue skinned avatar about?

 

[Muffled]

Then your argument is fatally flawed, because then all suffering is avoidable.

Can God cause good outcomes to occur without incidental suffering? If God is omnipotent, then the answer is yes: if God can do anything, then God can do that.

If God is omnipotent, then all suffering is a deliberate choice by God that has to be justified on its own merits. It doesn't work to justify the suffering as a side effect of doing something for a net good, because an omnipotent god could have caused the good without the suffering.

I believe that was the question Jesus asked: whether the suffering could be avoided and still accomplish the objective. The fact that He went to the cross shows that there was no other way.

 

[Muffled]

Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering?

Answer: free will.

God does not intervene with any human choice, otherwise it would not be free will. A parent's choice can affect their children. A criminal's choice can affect a victim. Your ancestors' choices can affect you today.

I believe one can cede one's will to Jesus and then He can intervene and does. I would imagine that I have avoided a lot of suffering that comes from excessive drinking , doing drugs, and having sex outside of marriage.