Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[ThePainefulTruth]

That is of course, your prerogative. All you have to do is to refrain from responding to this post.

This is me refraining by not otherwise responding to your

 

[Serenity7855]

Oh, I didn't think you were trying to convert me to Christianity, don't worry And even if you were, I'm fine with that (as long as you don't compel me). Rather, I was challenging your beliefs. Let me rephrase my question. How can you be sure that this entity is one that you should serve/worship? What if it is not the True God?

It really doesn't matter if the God we choose to worship is your God or mine, it is our lifestyle that we will be judged one Who determines which God is right or wrong, a Mormon or a Jehovah Witness or one of the other 1000 odd denominations in the world. I might be totally wrong about who I believe that I worship, however, the vital factor is that I worship and live a righteous life, because I will be judged on my time in mortality and how I have lived my life and not if I got the center of my belief wrong or right. As the scriptures tell us "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me" and "behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God." We serve God by serving our fellow men and are judged accordingly. So, in answer to your question, I do not know for a surety that the God that testified to my soul was the Christian God or some other God. I just know that it was a superior being of infinite love and compassion with unlimited power and knowledge whose intelligences engulfed my body in such a distinctive way that it could not be likened to anything else. It then communed with my very soul in a manner that I have never experienced before. Not in words but in concepts and images. I believe that I received an epiphany and have not doubted that since. It is now my mission to serve other as by doing so I serve God.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It really doesn't matter if the God we choose to worship is your God or mine, it is our lifestyle that we will be judged one Who determines which God is right or wrong, a Mormon or a Jehovah Witness or one of the other 1000 odd denominations in the world. I might be totally wrong about who I believe that I worship, however, the vital factor is that I worship and live a righteous life, because I will be judged on my time in mortality and how I have lived my life and not if I got the center of my belief wrong or right. As the scriptures tell us "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me" and "behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God." We serve God by serving our fellow men and are judged accordingly. So, in answer to your question, I do not know for a surety that the God that testified to my soul was the Christian God or some other God. I just know that it was a superior being of infinite love and compassion with unlimited power and knowledge whose intelligences engulfed my body in such a distinctive way that it could not be likened to anything else. It then communed with my very soul in a manner that I have never experienced before. Not in words but in concepts and images. I believe that I received an epiphany and have not doubted that since. It is now my mission to serve other as by doing so I serve God.

So this God that testified to your soul told you that it was the creator of all things, including the early universe?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Christians choose to live a lifestyle that makes it more unlikely for them to be immoral and they are of the mindset that they will be held accountable for their sins after this life.

You're going to be held accountable for your sins? So you don't expect to be forgiven? I tjought forgiveness was the whole message of Christianity.

Atheist have no deterrents or reason to cause them to choose the right, or even believe that right exists.

I find it telling that you didn't consider empathy as a reason to "choose the right".

 

[SkepticThinker]

Satan is a fictional character (same as the gods of all revealed religions), and as such couldn't exert free will on an anthill.

Well ... yeah.

 

[Serenity7855]

So this God that testified to your soul told you that it was the creator of all things, including the early universe?

No, He did not tell me, I felt it.

 

[Serenity7855]

You're going to be held accountable for your sins? So you don't expect to be forgiven? I tjought forgiveness was the whole message of Christianity.

Forgiveness is granted to those who draw upon the act of the atonement. It is a fundamental principle of the gospel, however, forgineness does not come easy so it is better to refrain from sinning then to go through the emotional turmoil of forgiveness. It is, as I said, a deterrent. To expect to be forgiven is arrogantly presumptuous and a sin.

I find it telling that you didn't consider empathy as a reason to "choose the right".

Yes, but that is probably down to you judging me without looking to yourself.[/QUOTE]

 

[Ingledsva]

The very existence of the universe and man, a creation, presupposes a creator. Can you imagine anything that didn't have a maker? Everything in your house had a maker or designer even what you wear or eat is composed or designed. Study the genetics and DNA of anything and wonder. How did DNA and genetics all get there, by itself? The process of evolution, what caused it? Why did it evolve into human life? If it was 'random' it didn't have to develop the human species. It was directed to evolve into humanity by a director. Everything has a cause except the first cause - God.

We can wonder all we want. Fact is we have actual stuff on the science side, and just a belief we cannot prove, on the other.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Well, not quite his belief is it? There are 2.2 billion other people, just like him, and an equal amount that believe in a similar connected God. It is the non-believer that is very much in the minority.

What is your point? You have no proof for us of any God, and never will have.

As said - Science starts with actual substance and tries to figure it all out. Religions just have a belief they cannot prove. Big difference.

*

 

[The_Fisher_King]

No, He did not tell me, I felt it.

Okay. The thing is, I do not believe that God is the Creator of all things. I believe Satan created the early universe. And I serve God, not Satan.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well, not quite his belief is it? There are 2.2 billion other people, just like him, and an equal amount that believe in a similar connected God. It is the non-believer that is very much in the minority.

Regardless of the number of people, it's still a belief.

 

[OurCreed]

It says twice that the wall stood as a wall on their left and their right. That isn't tides. How does the Sun stand still? Or water cover the whole Earth? Or bodies resurrect? Or we receive divine revelations?

I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that what's written is allegory or misinterpretation or lies, but you can't have it both ways. How do we determine which is which except through the agency of some self-appointed prophets? Hands off is a much better explanation because it explains all such phenomena, with the reason that God is hands off. The problem that comes with your perspective is how do you know what is miracle and what is not?

God doesn't break the laws that He created the entire universe with. Yes, there are laws that we don't know about or have not discovered yet, but that doesn't mean any laws were broken for miracles to perform. A miracle is simply a phenomenon which occurs which was not likely to happen or be understood. So miracles vary from time periods. A thousand years ago, it would be a miracle to fly, but that's not the case today.

Second, I don't rely on verses of the Bible to be fact. Who knows how many changes went through the book over the years.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

God doesn't break the laws that He created the entire universe with. Yes, there are laws that we don't know about or have not discovered yet, but that doesn't mean any laws were broken for miracles to perform. A miracle is simply a phenomenon which occurs which was not likely to happen or be understood. So miracles vary from time periods. A thousand years ago, it would be a miracle to fly, but that's not the case today.

It wasn't then either, they just needed the knowledge, not a miracle.

Second, I don't rely on verses of the Bible to be fact. Who knows how many changes went through the book over the years.

Exactly my point, who knows?

Well you got me there, who does know how many changes were edited in or out.

And why would there be curses in both the O/T and N/T against adding to or subtracting from the "word"? Nervous prophets maybe? Which begs the question, whyfor the curse, if the Bible is the everlasting immutable word of God? And what if it isn't? Doesn't God protect It's word? And if not, how do we know which is the actual divinely protected translation/edition, if any?

 

[OurCreed]

And why would there be curses in both the O/T and N/T against adding to or subtracting from the "word"? Nervous prophets maybe? Which begs the question, whyfor the curse, if the Bible is the everlasting immutable word of God? And what if it isn't? Doesn't God protect It's word? And if not, how do we know which is the actual divinely protected translation/edition, if any?

According to my beliefs which come from the Qur'an. The Gospel which was given to Jesus, as well as other scriptures given to different prophets, all of these scriptures were only meant for a certain time period for a certain group of people. Different laws for different societies. The Qur'an however was not meant for the Arabian society it was revealed in, as the book states, it is for all of man and for all time periods. So the revelation is completed with the Qur'an and there will not be any more scriptures after that. On top of that, God has confirmed in the Qur'an itself that He will protect His word. The other scriptures were not granted this protection because they were not permanent laws for everyone, they were left up to the people of the time to use them for their benefit.

Today, Christians still continue to follow or hardly follow their book, as with the Jews and the Torah. These are outdated laws that simply cannot be applied in modern times.

 

[Serenity7855]

Okay. The thing is, I do not believe that God is the Creator of all things. I believe Satan created the early universe. And I serve God, not Satan.

Who you believe is or isn't the creator of the early universe is not for me to judge. I would be interested to know how you have determined that Satan created the early universe as it has always been my opinion that it was God who initiated it and then stood back and watched it all happen, after which, He just fine tuned it for human habitation. But that is my opinion.

Can I ask what you interpret serving God to be? I have read your posts and find them to be profound and written from wisdom. That indicates that you are indeed a servant of God but in what capacity do you serve?.

 

[Serenity7855]

What is your point? You have no proof for us of any God, and never will have.

As said - Science starts with actual substance and tries to figure it all out. Religions just have a belief they cannot prove. Big difference.

*

Science starts with the substance that God created. I believe that those who cannot see the hand of God in our world must walk around with their eyes wedged shut to His existence. The proof is there, however, you just don't want to see it. As they say "Live with pigs long enough and you will begin to squeal like a pig", or, "submerse yourself in atheistic dogma for long enough and you will end up an anti-christ".

 

[Serenity7855]

Regardless of the number of people, it's still a belief.

As is atheism.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Regardless of the number of people, it's still a belief.

Indeed. I think all it proves is that human life is short and uncertain, and that people have a need for comforting beliefs.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

According to my beliefs which come from the Qur'an. The Gospel which was given to Jesus, as well as other scriptures given to different prophets, all of these scriptures were only meant for a certain time period for a certain group of people. Different laws for different societies.

And who decides which and when? You? How about me? I've decided that the time for all revealed religions is even more past than when they were first proclaimed.

The Qur'an however was not meant for the Arabian society it was revealed in, as the book states, it is for all of man and for all time periods.

Which is it then, your beliefs or the Quran? And how does the Quran move from Arabian society, Reason? That reason looks very much like a sword, and sounds like Jihad.

So the revelation is completed with the Qur'an and there will not be any more scriptures after that. On top of that, God has confirmed in the Qur'an itself that He will protect His word. The other scriptures were not granted this protection because they were not permanent laws for everyone, they were left up to the people of the time to use them for their benefit.

So, unlike another Muslim on the board here told me, you're saying that the Quran is immutable as God has it? You therefore can't deny the message of:

Quran (9:29):
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

I wish I could communicate how much that angers me every time I read it. And every Muslim is committed to bringing that about. There's no possible softening of its aggressive pursuit of submission. And to call it willing is as absurd as being willingly decapitated.

Today, Christians still continue to follow or hardly follow their book, as with the Jews and the Torah. These are outdated laws that simply cannot be applied in modern times.

As is the Quran. There is only one law, the Golden Rule: Honoring the EQUAL rights for ALL to life, liberty, property and self-defense to be free from violation through force or fraud. That's it. All else is individually determined and individually upheld virtue. All other "laws" are null and void for enforcement through force.

 

[Serenity7855]

Indeed. I think all it proves is that human life is short and uncertain, and that people have a need for comforting beliefs.

If what you say is true then what is wrong with that. If when we die there is nothing then who will care? If when we die there is something then believers will be vindicated and there will be many red faced atheists to be found. So if a belief in God gives you solace then why not?