Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Serenity7855]

The "opposite" of natural is SUPERnatural?

That's like saying, 'the opposite of morning is afternoon'!

You are being intentionally argumentative. You need to ask yourself what it was that motivated you to post this gratuitous drivel

 

[Serenity7855]

So why not fire-breathing dragons, then?

My knowledge of fire and my understanding of the biology of dragons would mean that they would severely burn their throat

With all due respect, I have been following the whole thread. Now, in a couple of SkepticThinker's posts, if I recall correctly, they have referred to dragons, fairies, garden gnomes, aliens, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allaah, ghosts, the flying spaghetti monster, the mothman, and the chupacabra (it's possible I missed one or two - please point them out to me). Which of these, specifically, are the 'strange entities' and 'bizarre caricatures' to which you refer?

Why is that important to you. I am dubious to give you my opinion because I am all to familiar with posters who set traps for the innocent unsuspecting poster, especially when the answer is so very obvious;

I wasn't suggesting that these entities would be hurt by your post; rather that any people who believe in these entities might be offended.

I wasn't saying that the entities would be hurt When I said "so none of them were hurt in this altercation" I was referring to the believers and not the entities.

But in any case, none of the above were created by SkepticThinker.

So who created these entities and posted them in Skeptic Thinker post. I have never heard of many of these entities

Of those listed above, the only one I personally don't believe exists is the flying spaghetti monster.

So the only one that you find unfeasible is the flying spaghetti monster whose probable existence is on a par with the other entities that Skeptic Thinker did not create.

I can't comment on whether anyone genuinely believes in the existence of the flying spaghetti monster, but I am far from alone in believing in the existence of the other entities in the above list.

So you are a self proclaimed Christian who also believes in dragons, fairies, garden gnomes, aliens, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allah, ghosts, the moth-man, and the chupacabra. Says it all really, doesn't it?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

You are being intentionally argumentative. You need to ask yourself what it was that motivated you to post this gratuitous drivel

This is a "DEBATE" forum, isn't it? That means we "DEBATE", not just accept what someone says as gospel, as you are wanting people to do with what you say! When someone posts nonsense like, "the "OPPOSITE" of natural is SUPERnatural", it must be pointed out.


This is a "DEBATE" forum, that is my motivation. Apparently it's not yours, you just want people to believe what you say and not question it. If you don't want to debate, maybe you should preach somewhere else, huh?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Just in reading this it is abundantly clear that you have been indoctrinated by false doctrines. You need to be reading from the inspired word of God, that is, The King James Authorised Version is the only bible that I believe can be trusted.

Because you believe that, it makes it the "inspired Word of God"?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

My knowledge of fire and my understanding of the biology of dragons would mean that they would severely burn their throat

So you are a self proclaimed Christian who also believes in dragons, fairies, garden gnomes, aliens, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allah, ghosts, the moth-man, and the chupacabra. Says it all really, doesn't it?

So you are a self proclaimed Christian, who claims to have an "understanding of the biology" of a mythical creature?

Your knowledge is lacking. How does a spider or snake inject venom into it's prey, and then eat it, and the venom not kill the spider or snake?

How does an eel, posses electricity to shock other creatures, but it not harm the eel?

You need to ask yourself what it was that motivated you to post this gratuitous drivel!

 

[SkepticThinker]

My knowledge of fire and my understanding of the biology of dragons would mean that they would severely burn their throat



Why is that important to you. I am dubious to give you my opinion because I am all to familiar with posters who set traps for the innocent unsuspecting poster, especially when the answer is so very obvious;



I wasn't saying that the entities would be hurt When I said "so none of them were hurt in this altercation" I was referring to the believers and not the entities.


So who created these entities and posted them in Skeptic Thinker post. I have never heard of many of these entities


So the only one that you find unfeasible is the flying spaghetti monster whose probable existence is on a par with the other entities that Skeptic Thinker did not create.



So you are a self proclaimed Christian who also believes in dragons, fairies, garden gnomes, aliens, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allah, ghosts, the moth-man, and the chupacabra. Says it all really, doesn't it?

Look them up.

 

[Serenity7855]

This is a "DEBATE" forum, isn't it? That means we "DEBATE", not just accept what someone says as gospel, as you are wanting people to do with what you say! When someone posts nonsense like, "the "OPPOSITE" of natural is SUPERnatural", it must be pointed out.

Yes, you are correct, it is a dabting forum, however, you can hardly call your rhetoric here debating. You are intentionally arguing with me because my opinion differs from yours. That is not constructive debate, no, that is bigotry. Bigotry and debate don't mix well as it will always be your way or the high way with you. You are getting annoyed with me because by rebuttals are sound, based on sound reasoning confirmed by the Holy Ghost. They will, therefore, contradict your beliefs, however, I am not getting all flustered about you miscomprehensions as you are with me, because iI believe that you have every right to believe in whatever you want, without being judged for it, after all, I could be as wrong as I believe you are.

That you cannot see that natural is a proven and supernatural is not, that is, they are polar opposites, tells us that it is far more like nonsense then anything I have written. And no, it must not be pointed out in the crass way that you do. Is that what you believe Jesus would do? You are not asserting it or giving it as an opinion, no, you are stating it as factual. You are saying that you are right and I must accept your misrepresentations of me. Natural exists within the physical world whereas supernatural exists in the spiritual world. They oppose each other, they are opposite, having said that, is this what you believe debating is all about, nitpicking on irrelevant and inconsequential trivialities that only take the debate off course and are ambigiously subjective due to it being totally anecdotal. Prove my opinions wrong, not my grammar ot intelligence.

This is a "DEBATE" forum, that is my motivation. Apparently it's not yours, you just want people to believe what you say and not question it. If you don't want to debate, maybe you should preach somewhere else, huh?

If you believe that a lack of a desire to debate is apparent to you, then you are very much mistaken, almost as much as your spurious dogma is. "Apparently" is a suppositional. it is not a fact, however, you then continue to say "you want people to believe what you say and not question it". That is not a supposition, that is a malicious indictment against me, a person, who you have no idea who I am. So, let me clarify it for you. I have never tried to force my opinions on anyone, not here or anywhere else. I am absolutely certain on that, as it is my firm belief that niether man nor congregations can convert anyone into following the teachings of Christ. I believe that it takes a fervant desire and the testimony of the Holy Ghost to convert anyone to live a Christ centred life, therefore, you are wrong is your assumptions.[/QUOTE]

 

[Serenity7855]

Look them up.

I have far better thing to do with my time rather than to look up your insignificant and meaningless straw men analogies.

 

[Serenity7855]

So you are a self proclaimed Christian, who claims to have an "understanding of the biology" of a mythical creature?

I made no claim, i said that "my understanding of fire breathing dragons", as gleaned from children's books and dragon movies. You have twisted my words with the intentions of belittling me. Again you insult my intelligence and fail to use this forum for the purpose for which it was intended, debating, instead of trying to make a fool of me. And you call yourself a Christian.

Your knowledge is lacking. How does a spider or snake inject venom into it's prey, and then eat it, and the venom not kill the spider or snake?

Ah, confirmation of what I anticipated you where desperately trying to do. ad hominem. you are trying to portray me as having a low intelligence in the hope that my opinions will be discredited. And Jesus said, as I have loved you, love one another. That is underhanded and clandestine.

 

[Serenity7855]

Because you believe that, it makes it the "inspired Word of God"?

You think that my belief, on it's own, is sufficient for me to say it is the inspired word of God. Well, you are right. to me it is. I believe that to be true. I can only speak for myself though, as only know what I have experienced through the testimony of the Holy Ghost. How could I possibly speak for you? After all, I did say that "the only bible that I believe can be trusted." So why are you challenging me on something that I made very clear in my post? Unlike you I clarified that it was my belief.

 

[Serenity7855]

So you are a self proclaimed Christian, who claims to have an "understanding of the biology" of a mythical creature?

I did not claim to have a knowledge of biology or mystical creatures, that is what you said, not me. You are misrepresenting me, again.

Your knowledge is lacking. How does a spider or snake inject venom into it's prey, and then eat it, and the venom not kill the spider or snake?

The snake and spider is immune to its own venom, or highly resistant, after all, the venom is made within its own body, it is not rocket science. Again, they exist.

How does an eel, posses electricity to shock other creatures, but it not harm the eel?

You do realise that we are charged with electricity as well. We can get shocks off each other as well. It is nothing as extraordinary as a fire breathing Dragon, especially as it actually exists, though, despite its name, it is not an eel, or even related to an eel. It is related to a knifefish and catfish

You need to ask yourself what it was that motivated you to post this gratuitous drivel!

What gratuitous drivel do you refer to or is this like the copycat game we played as kids?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

My knowledge of fire and my understanding of the biology of dragons would mean that they would severely burn their throat

You said:

If I said that I believe in fire breathing dragons then because we know that fire breathing dragons logically could not exist in the natural world we know that it would be folly to believe that they exist when they cannot

To which I asked:

Can anything exist outside the natural world?

To which you answered:

I believe that God exists so my answer is yes, existence beyond the natural world is an absolute truth

So, if existence beyond the natural world is an absolute truth, why can fire-breathing dragons not exist outside the natural world?

Why is that important to you. I am dubious to give you my opinion because I am all to familiar with posters who set traps for the innocent unsuspecting poster, especially when the answer is so very obvious;

Because it sounds like you are belittling other people's beliefs/the entities they believe in.

So who created these entities and posted them in Skeptic Thinker post. I have never heard of many of these entities

You have never heard of many of these entities? The chupacabra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chupacabra and mothman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothman I will give you as they're probably not so widely-known. But the others? Look 'em up on Wikipedia. Even the Flying Spaghetti Monster has a page there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster; it is the deity at the heart of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti-Monster/Pastafarianism.

So you are a self proclaimed Christian who also believes in dragons, fairies, garden gnomes, aliens, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allah, ghosts, the moth-man, and the chupacabra. Says it all really, doesn't it?

Where on Earth did you get the idea that I am a self-proclaimed Christian from??? But even if I was, Christianity is a broad church, so why can there not be Christians who believe in some of these other entities? Given that belief in the chupacabra, for example, is found throughout the Americas, there is every possibility that there are some Christians who believe in this creature. Moreover, many Christians around the world have syncretised Christianity with the pre-Christian beliefs of their ancestors.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

because iI believe that you have every right to believe in whatever you want, without being judged for it, after all, I could be as wrong as I believe you are.

And still, your belief is the 'truth' and I am being deceived, correct?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I made no claim, i said that "my understanding of fire breathing dragons", as gleaned from children's books and dragon movies. You have twisted my words with the intentions of belittling me. Again you insult my intelligence and fail to use this forum for the purpose for which it was intended, debating, instead of trying to make a fool of me. And you call yourself a Christian.

"You made no claim"? You said, "MY understanding", is that not claiming you "HAVE" understanding of fire breathing dragons?

 

[Serenity7855]

"You made no claim"? You said, "MY understanding", is that not claiming you "HAVE" understanding of fire breathing dragons?

Are you being serious? Are you unaware of what the word "understanding" actually means. You surely must know that it is a word that signifies some kind of ambiguity. Yes, I do have an understanding of dragons, however, it is limited by the obvious fact that they do not physically exist. if you were reading for comprehension rather then meticulously looking for the most minuscule of errors in my use of English in my post rather than attempting to understand it's content. May I suggest that you stick to the topic of debate rather than attempting to dissect the words that I write as it gives the impression that you do not have the capacity, or the knowledge, to debate the topic, so, your only alternative is to attack my person instead. Not what I would expect from a Christian.

 

[Serenity7855]

And still, your belief is the 'truth' and I am being deceived, correct?

What a poor example of objective reasoning you have. If I didn't believe in my opinion then it would not be my opinion. Of course I believe that my belief is true, I would not dedicate my life to a lie.

I do not know if you are being deceived, that would involve a third party doing the deceiving, I don't even know, for a surety, whether I am being deceived, however, your belief contradicts mine and makes no sense, so I believe that your belief is not correct and a debating forum is the best place for me to express that opinion. That you find my opinion offensive would suggest that a debating forum is not the best place for you to be. You will be disagreed with on here. It is the nature of debate.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have far better thing to do with my time rather than to look up your insignificant and meaningless straw men analogies.

As I explained quite thoroughly, there is no straw man there. Quit claiming things that aren't there.

 

[Serenity7855]

As I explained quite thoroughly, there is no straw man there. Quit claiming things that aren't there.

You cannot justify deceitful and unprincipled behaviour by thorough explanation. It is always wrong. If I see you, or anybody else, blatantly using straw men to unfairly bolster their argument, I will expose you, regardless as to whether you try and deny that they are straw men by desperately trying to excuse yourself of them. The use of straw men is deviously unethical and aberrant duplicity. It has no place on this forum. So quit ordering me around and stop using them.

 

[Neo Deist]

If your God exists then why does He allow children to starve and pedophiles to exist. It is one of the most frequently asked questions of atheists and one that they think dismisses the existence of God. On another thread and another topic I recieved this post that caused me to think that maybe it is not something that Christians know or believe. Maybe it was lost with the creeds?



I believe that the answer is so obvious that we do not consider it. You first have to consider why you are here, what is this life all about and what happens to us when it is all over? Why are we here?
Coming here allows you to:

• Receive a physical body.
• Exercise agency and learn to choose between good and evil.
• Learn and gain experience that will help you become more like your Heavenly Father.
• Form family relationships that may become eternal.
• To be tried and tested in the flesh to see if we will have sufficient faith if God to keep His commandments.

Your life didn’t begin at birth and it won’t end at death. Before you came to earth, your spirit lived with Heavenly Father who created you. You knew Him, and He knew and loved you. It was a happy time during which you were taught God’s plan of happiness and the path to true joy.

One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence. Not only that, but we can’t remember our pre-earth life which means we have to operate by faith rather than sight. God didn’t say it would be easy, but He promised His spirit would be there when we needed Him. Even though it feels like it sometimes, we’re not alone in our journey.

So what is faith? To have faith is to “hope for things which are not seen, which are true” Hebrews 11:1). Each day you act upon things you hope for, even before you see the end result. This is similar to faith. Faith in God is more than a theoretical belief in Him. To have faith in God is to trust Him, to have confidence in Him, and to be willing to act on your belief in Him. It is a principle of action and power. That is the test that we are here to take. The test of our faith. To make choices that reflect upon that faith in Christ. If we had a perfect knowledge of Him then we could not be tried and tested by our faith because a perfect knowledge and faith could not exist together, there is either one or the other. There is a Mormon scripture that discribes this very well

Alma 32: 17-21

17 Yea, there are many who do say: If thou wilt show unto us a sign from heaven, then we shall know of a surety; then we shall believe.

18 Now I ask, is this faith? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for if a man knoweth a thing he hath no cause to believe, for he knoweth it.

19 And now, how much more cursed is he thatknoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?

20 Now of this thing ye must judge. Behold, I say unto you, that it is on the one hand even as it is on the other; and it shall be unto every man according to his work.

21 And now as I said concerning faith—faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.

And that is the reaso why God cannot intervene and prevent the children from starving or take away the temptations of the pedophile. As soon as He does then the whole meaning of our existence will no longer be tenable and we would all be subjected to Satan. It is not that God turns His back on those who are suffering, I am sure that He weeps for them and longs to do something to alliviate their suffering, however, He cannot do that without destroying the entire Plan of Salvation by taking away the essential ingredient of faith.

Now, that is my belief. As I believe that God is a personage of infinite knowledge, I believe, so the entire Plan of Salvation is perfect with every single eventuality being covered. What do you think?

Free will.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You cannot justify deceitful and unprincipled behaviour by thorough explanation. It is always wrong. If I see you, or anybody else, blatantly using straw men to unfairly bolster their argument, I will expose you, regardless as to whether you try and deny that they are straw men by desperately trying to excuse yourself of them. The use of straw men is deviously unethical and aberrant duplicity. It has no place on this forum. So quit ordering me around and stop using them.

I have no idea what you're talking about. As I explained in my post, there was no straw man. Please quit repeating that. Repetition doesn't make something true.
I then went on to explain why and how my comparisons were relevant. You have, as of yet, not responded to that post.

I'm starting to think you're confused about what a straw man argument actually is, since you cite it for almost anything.