Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Serenity7855]

You believe that when Jesus, Matthew 5:2 (ESV Strong's) 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:, He 'fulfilled' the law?

So you have back track your original statement that he fulfilled the law by His perfection and now agree with me that it was the Beatitudes that introduces the Abrahamic Covenant. I am happy that I have managed to teach you something.

Then why would He, after fulfilling the law, say,

Matthew 5:17-18 (ESV Strong's) 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Because He fulfilled the law, He did not do away with them. For an example. The Mosaic Law said that thou shalt not commit adultery. Jesus then said that not only shalt thou not commit adultery but even if you look at a woman, with lust in your eyes, so have you committed adultery. The originally law still exists within the new law. Law law of blood sacrifice was intended to remind us of the suffering that the son of God must endure so when He came to earth there was no need to continue as His blood atonement mad it unnecessary for it to continue. He had fulfilled the law. The scripture is correct, you have just misunderstood it. Every law can be explained in the same way, however, as you are a Christian you must know that. Why don't you know that. What do you think the Beatitudes was all about

didn't He just fulfill the law with His 'teaching' the crowd?

Yes He did.

And you say that we were valiant warriors "in heaven", but had to come to earth and be human to be tried and tested to "get back" to heaven. Where's your scriptural evidence for that nonsense?

My evidence is scripture what is your evidence that the scriptures are wrong.

War in Heaven
This term arises out of (Rev. 12:7) and refers to the conflict that took place in the premortal existence among the spirit children of God. The war was primarily over how and in what manner the plan of salvation would be administered to the forthcoming human family upon the earth. The issues involved such things as agency, how to gain salvation, and who should be the Redeemer. The war broke out because one-third of the spirits refused to accept the appointment of Jesus Christ as the Savior. Such a refusal was a rebellion against the Father’s plan of redemption. It was evident that if given agency, some persons would fall short of complete salvation; Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come automatically to all who passed through mortality, without regard to individual preference, agency, or voluntary dedication (see Isa. 14:12–20; Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:4–13). The spirits who thus rebelled and persisted were thrust out of heaven and cast down to the earth without mortal bodies, “and thus came the devil and his angels” (Rev. 12:9).

The warfare is continued in mortality in the conflict between right and wrong, between the gospel and false principles, etc. The same contestants and the same issues are doing battle, and the same salvation is at stake.

Although one-third of the spirits became devils, the remaining two-thirds were not all equally valiant, there being every degree of devotion to Christ and the Father among them. The most diligent were chosen to be rulers in the kingdom. The nature of the conflict, however, is such that there could be no neutrals, then or now (Matt. 12:30) But the following verse, on its own, answers you question and verifies my claim that there was indeed a war in heaven.

Revelations 12:7

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Judges 2:22 "I did this to TEST Israel—to see whether or not they would FOLLOW THE WAYS OF THE LORD as their Ancestors did.”

2 Corinthians 2:9 "For to this end also I wrote, so that I might put you to the TEST, whether you are Obedient in All things."

Isaiah 14

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: theseed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Luke 10:18
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Revelation 12
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angelsfought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Chapter 4
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall, and death enters the world.

1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Revelations 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

His perfect life didn't "change" the law, it 'fulfilled' it

.

You have it seriously wrong. You need to take another look but do it with the companionship of the Holy Ghost. You are so wrong that I am dubious as to whether you are winding me up

It was you who said that this is all nonsense.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Chapter 4
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall, and death enters the world.

1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Did you coincidentally forget to provide the book this nonsense came from? You posted the books all the 'real' scriptures came from.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You do that a lot, don't you. You use other posters to bolster your own argument as if they have some kind of authority that exceeds everyone else's. Do you really think that it is beyond all realms of possibility for two people to be equally wrong.

It means two people interpreted your post in a certain way. You say that's not what you meant and implied that I'm not that bright for not getting it. So I pointed out that someone else took it the same way I did, therefore, maybe you weren't as clear as you had thought you were and maybe you should clarify or elaborate since you apparently didn't come across as you had thought you did.

Get it?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So pointing out to me that I have missed a letter at the end of a word is not saying a single thing about my grammar, OK

I did no such thing since the "s" was already included in your post to me. I clarified what I was saying in post #997.

 

[Serenity7855]

It means two people interpreted your post in a certain way. You say that's not what you meant and implied that I'm not that bright for not getting it. So I pointed out that someone else took it the same way I did, therefore, maybe you weren't as clear as you had thought you were and maybe you should clarify or elaborate since you apparently didn't come across as you had thought you did.

Get it?

The poster you chose also believes that Jesus Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law by being perfect, so he is as guilty as you are at being ill informed and unable to reason the most simplest of concepts out, just by using common sense. People, of a similar ilk, will agree with each other in their ignorance will be readily seen by the more astute of us. I made it very clear that I was referring to both the Mosaic Law, and the Abrahamic Covenant. It would be common sense for you to know that I was not referring to anything else as nothing else was being debated. You are both wrong and you are not that bright when it comes to religion. .

Oh, I have got it, since you turn tailed on me when #i disagreed with you. You well and truly had me fooled.

 

[Serenity7855]

Did you coincidentally forget to provide the book this nonsense came from? You posted the books all the 'real' scriptures came from.

On the contrary, I omitted it on purpose because I recognize who you are and how monumentally wrong you have it so I know that you would ridicule and denounce what is wisdom just because of it's origins. However, please omit it, I inserted it because of its clarity in proving you wrong in saying that the war in heaven is nonsense. I have posted enough Bible scripture to adequately prove that religion is not your forte.

 

[Serenity7855]

Yes you did!

No I did not

 

[Serenity7855]

You consider pointing out that I'm referring to more than one person as "taunting?" I mean, seriously? You weren't making a point, you were simply stating that I regularly taunt Christians. Yet you provide no example of actual taunting of one single Christian, never mind a group of them.

Sadly, I do not have sufficient time to trawl the thread to give you examples, however, be assured that I will, as soon as time permits, and I am confident that my accusation is will be verified.

P.S. I don't constantly correct grammar, and I wasn't doing so in this instance. In fact, I rarely ever correct grammar (or spelling either), as I realize there are many people here whose first language is not English. Please don't make things up.

Again, time does not permit me to scroll through the thread and other threads, however, you have questioned my grammar many times, usually when you are losing the point.

P.P.S. You also said, " I expect your negativity, as do many other posters here," as though you can speak for anybody else here, who I think if you asked them, would not agree with you since I get along quite well with most people from all walks of life on this forum, and have for a number of years.

Well, that is not being narcissistic, egocentric and self conceited is it? Most people are humble enough to allow others to sing their praises, however, you are so sure of your popularity here that you blow your own trumpet, very loudly, but, I am sure that you will find yourself quite mistaken in your delusions of grandeur and self importance. Unlike you, I am not here looking for friends, I have plenty of those in my private life. Like Jesus was none to popular when He spoke that which is true, neither am I for doing the same, however, the rewards of telling it as it is, is worth the abuse that I receive from the likes of you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The poster you chose also believes that Jesus Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law by being perfect, so he is as guilty as you are at being ill informed and unable to reason the most simplest of concepts out, just by using common sense. People, of a similar ilk, will agree with each other in their ignorance will be readily seen by the more astute of us. I made it very clear that I was referring to both the Mosaic Law, and the Abrahamic Covenant. It would be common sense for you to know that I was not referring to anything else as nothing else was being debated. You are both wrong and you are not that bright when it comes to religion. .

Oh, I have got it, since you turn tailed on me when #i disagreed with you. You well and truly had me fooled.

So what? Different Christians believe different things about the Bible, Jesus, etc. I've pointed that out several times now. And that has nothing to do with our misunderstanding of the post in question.

You insinuated that I wasn't too bright for not understanding what you were trying to convey in your post. Another poster had the same issue. I pointed this out to you so that you could see that maybe you weren't as clear as you had thought you were. There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes we aren't as clear as we think we are on these forums. But the decent thing to do would be to simply clarify your position so that others may better understand you (that's if you have an actual interest in getting your thoughts across to others).

And now here you are still trying to insult our intelligence. All the while in post after post complaining that you are being insulted. It's madness.

I have no idea what you mean about turning tail.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sadly, I do not have sufficient time to trawl the thread to give you examples, however, be assured that I will, as soon as time permits, and I am confident that my accusation is will be verified.

Sure.

Again, time does not permit me to scroll through the thread and other threads, however, you have questioned my grammar many times, usually when you are losing the point.

You won't find any.

Well, that is not being narcissistic, egocentric and self conceited is it?

I don't think so.

Most people are humble enough to allow others to sing their praises, however, you are so sure of your popularity here that you blow your own trumpet, very loudly, but, I am sure that you will find yourself quite mistaken in your delusions of grandeur and self importance. Unlike you, I am not here looking for friends, I have plenty of those in my private life. Like Jesus was none to popular when He spoke that which is true, neither am I for doing the same, however, the rewards of telling it as it is, is worth the abuse that I receive from the likes of you.

Save your lectures and respond to the meat and potatoes of my post, please. Enough with this nonsense. If you can't take someone questioning your opinions and arguments, then debate forums aren't for you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Continued

If you do not believe in God that is what you believe so you must lack belief, otherwise, like me, you would not lack belief. So, you simply believe that you have a lack of belief. This is a very good example of how you persistently refusing to concede when you are wrong, even when you are blatantly wrong and to continue to give us a master class on "smoke screening" and "goal post moving".

I lack belief in god(s). Period.

Do you have any evidence to substantiate your rather outlandish affirmation that there is equal likelihood that fairies, alien abductions, Zeus, Thor, Osiris, Allah, ghosts, the flying spaghetti monster, the mothman, and the chupacabra all have similar numbers of followers as Christians do?

The same amount of compelling evidence exists for all of them.

Do you have some evidence that indicates that the specific god you believe in is more likely to exist than Thor, Zeus, Allah, Osiris, fairies, etc.?

Number of followers is irrelevant to the truth of a thing. We’ve been over that. Think about it this way: Most everyone an Ancient Greece believed in the existence of Zeus. Does that mean he most likely existed? Thousands of people believe they have been abducted by aliens. Does that mean they were?

No, you are talking about the existence of thing, I am talking about the existence of God. You introduced these elaborate fictitious straw men in an attempt to use them to win the point. They are all irrelevant to the point here and have no relative comparison to the argument.

There is no difference between “the existence of a thing” and “the existence of god.” They’re the same thing.

Other gods or supernatural creatures are not straw men in this argument. They are very relevant to a discussion about belief and evidence for god/supernatural claims and determining the truth of reality.

It is in not knowing the consequence, for which I speak. We all exercise faith that requires no evidence. Hebrews 11:11 says that "Faith means being sure of the things we hope for and knowing that something is real even if we do not see it." Just like knowing that God is real without even seeing Him. Like I do not know whether I will rise in the morning but I am as certain as I can be that I will and I will base my entire day on that unevidenced fact, I have never seen God but I am as certain as I can be that He exists and will base my entire life on that unevidenced fact. No measurements are require with either situation.

Again, the idea that the sun will rise in the morning is indeed based on evidence. It’s based on the evidence that the sun has risen every single morning of our lives. Even more broadly, it’s based on the evidence that human beings have accumulated over the years about how our solar system and planetary movements operate.

So like I said, I don’t see how that takes the same kind of faith to believe in as the faith it takes to believe in an immeasurable, indemonstrable, invisible deity. Especially if your evidence is a Bible verse.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You are contradicting yourself. That is not evidence that is anecdotal rhetoric.

See the sun example, above.

No, there is no evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow, even though that is what has been happening for billions of years. Tomorrow is another totally unique period of time in which anything could happen. However, as certain as you are that the sun will rise tomorrow, without any tangible evidence, just your past memories, I am equally as certain that God exists, even though I have no tangible evidence. So, in that light, I would agree that the sun will rise tomorrow even though there is no proof, as I do that God is real, without proof.

There is tangible evidence for the sun rising tomorrow morning. See above.

What likelihood is there that you will ask the same person twice for directions. There is no possibility that he is going to lie to you and if he did how would you know, you are lost. You are acting on faith. You have no evidence that the directions he gives you are correct, but you will act on them anyway, but you will not concede to it or except the truth of it.

I think you’ve missed my point.

I would know the person lied to me, or was mistaken, if the directions (s)he gave didn’t take me to my desired destination.

Words are not always necessary to portray characteristics. Your deportment gave that away many moons ago. No attempt at an insult was intended by me. That is a demonstrable projection.

Uh no. You said I made a claim. I just want to know what claim you think I made!

I don’t think I expressed such a claim anywhere, therefore, I can offer no defence.

You make that claim by believing in and worshiping that god. You don’t believe in and worship Zeus and Poseidon, right?

As you know, in science everything is predicated on cause and effect. If God is infinitely more knowledgeable then science, do you believe that He would place us here for no good reason. That He would cause our suffering and death for nothing. Even if you don't believe in God you must be aware that Christians are not fools, so they would not commit their lives to God for nothing. There has to be a reason for our existence. A reward in heaven. Redemption, salvation and eternal life is our reward, it is the effect of the cause for our being here.

There doesn’t have to be any reason for our existence. You’re projecting your personal desires onto it, but the truth of a claim or a thing is not predicated on our desires.

I would love to think that my deceased loved ones are all together in some great place somewhere, but that doesn’t mean it has to be true.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you knew the plan of Salvation you would know that it does speak the truth of all things and records the results in the Holy Bible. God was so infinitely omniscient that He incorporated a code within the Torah of the same Holy Bible that can only be deciphered by using a computer that would not exist until the last days.

This is your desire and belief. Which is fine. But I need more than that to determine whether something is true or not.

I’ve read the Bible. In fact, it’s one of the reasons I moved away from Christianity.

Because of the extraordinary probabilities for why things are as they are. The anthropic principle for example, or my favorite miracle, rapid expansion. Science has made that clear that it has no idea how that happened and will probably never know. All the know is that it happened.

The anthropic principle doesn’t point to the specific god you believe in. And fine tuning ignores the fact that the vast majority of the universe (and even large parts of planet Earth) doesn’t seem compatible with supporting life (more specifically, human life).

I think you’re treading in foolish territory by claiming that science can never know something. People have been erroneously saying that for centuries now. Once upon a time human beings attributed lightning to the gods.

No, God wants us to want to strictly adhere to his commandments because He knows that by doing so will ensure our safe return. If we have to be instructed then we might as well have listened to Satan's plan. If we are to return to our Father in heaven it must be by our own merits and not by being compelled.

There are hundreds of commandments in the Bible, but you’ve determined that god just wants us to follow those ten? And why don’t they say anything about rape, slavery or hurting children?

Here’s the problem. Not only do you say this immeasurable, indemonstrable, completely faith-based god exists, but you want to tell people what you believe “he” thinks and wants. And not only that, but millions of different Christians believe different things about that as well. That problem isn’t solved by looking at the Bible either, because millions of Christians can’t agree on that either (that has been aptly demonstrated over the last few pages of this thread). And that’s without even factoring in all the other god claims from the millions of other people in the world who believe in different gods and claim to know what they want.

Maybe you can see my problem now.

I only know of one such ritual, baptism. Anything else has been added by man.

What if those men say that they know what god wants, as you do?

That is a misconception that has been maliciously spread by atheists. The Authorised King James Bible The KJV is unquestionably the most widely printed and distributed Bible in human history. It was "appointed to be read in churches." Given the support and endorsement of King James I, this version of the Bible was virtually destined for success and wide dissemination. It has been a classic and a standard for some three centuries now. It is as close to the original transcripts as any bible in existence and has been in circulation since 1611 with only minor changes. It was an inspired translation. http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/

It’s an undeniable fact of reality.

First of all, the Bible wasn’t written in English. It had to be translated. There’s no way around that.

Secondly, there are no original copies of the New Testament.

Thirdly, it was written during a time that is far removed from the present culture we live in, so much like our current languages, there is a lot of nuance in the wording that needs to be interpreted.

Fourthly, we know it was copied and re-copied. There is no way around that since the printing press wasn’t invented until the 15th century. We know for a fact that prior to the existence of the printing press, the Bible was copied over and over by scribes. There are verses within it where the scribes indicate that copying errors have occurred (as they obviously would). There is an entire field of study called textual criticism that deal with these very real issues.

And finally, just the fact alone that millions of Christians currently interpret the same parts of the Bible in very different ways attests to the fact that the Bible is interpreted. The thousands of different Christian denominations currently in existence, attest to that fact.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And millions that do.

I don’t even know two Christians who believe the exact same things about god and the Bible. Take a look around this forum (or your own thread) for a while.

I do not see your concern. Christianity is about the individuals relationship with their God. Just as other religions are with their version of the same God. Contrary to being extraordinary I would say that it is very ordinary. It is what we do.

You don’t see my concern about billions of people making very different claims about what god(s) want?

You don’t see how claiming the existence of some immeasurable, indemonstrable, invisible deity is an extraordinary one? You don’t see how claiming to know exactly what such a god wants from us is an extraordinary one?

Really?

No, I do not see that I intentionally ignored answering a question. Your judgement of me and my intentions are incorrect., however, I can understand why you do judge me thus, projection.

I wonder how turning to evolution addresses the point about god claims and how to determine which ones are true. You don’t worship the same god that everyone else worships, since billions of people all make different claims and have different beliefs about what or who is god and what that god wants from us.

Perhaps you could show me this demonstrable, testable and measurable evidence of the "theory" of evolution, as Darwin defined it, that is, the change of kind, the transition of one species completely into another, only, I do not know of a single event in which one species transformed into another. I have no problems with evolution/adaption occurring within the species own taxon groups but there is no evidence that shows a species changing over time into another separate and distinct species. I can show you adaption within a taxon group but none that transcends it.

The theory of evolution is probably the most robust and well-evidence scientific theory in existence. All the evidence collected from practically every field of science since Darwin first presented the theory has only supported and added to it. There has been no evidence discovered over the last 150+ years that has falsified the theory. Biology doesn’t work without it. The evidence is there for anybody with the slightest interest in finding it.

It doesn’t make sense to me that someone can believe that small changes within “kinds” (an unscientific designation) can easily occur but that those smaller changes can’t accumulate to create larger changes over vast periods of time.

You should really look into genetics, as well.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=...ved=0ahUKEwjJ5_zc44rOAhVM2oMKHb2QAgoQgQMIGTAA
http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/lessons/sp.evid.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v429/n6989/abs/nature02556.html
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics
https://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/teaching/astr380f09/slides08.pdf
http://www.evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/lines/IIDmolecular.shtml

Darwin also told us that this happens over millions of years so we cannot even use the scientific method to test it or measure it, as you have claimed. Yet we teach our children that this is actually what happened when we just don't know that for sure, which is what we should be teaching. There is as much evidence for the "theory" of evolution as there is for the existence of God, absolutely none. Yet we treat one as as fact and the other as a fairy tale. However, if you think you can show me a transition from one species into another species than you can easily prove me wrong. Please try.

Darwin’s beliefs are not relevant. We’ve learned so much more over the last 150+ years than he could have ever imagined. He didn’t know the first thing about genetics, for example. But the amazing part is that genetics fully support the theory of evolution.

The theory of evolution is measurable, testable and demonstrable. You admit that god is none of those things. There are mountains of evidence supporting evolution. That’s why it’s supported by the vast majority of the science community and has been for the last century. That’s why it’s taught in science classrooms.

A species, or kind, is an organism that is capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. Both a short beck humming bird and a long beck humming bird do not interbreed, however, they can, so the change in beck length is an adaption not a transition. They still remain humming birds. Like most supporters of evolution, atheists think that it is a fact, and will not even consider the opposing arguments, but what they believe in is adaption and not evolution. It's one of sciences cons by claiming that an adjustment to a changing environment is evolution, it is not..

Go to an evolution thread to talk about evolution. It has nothing to do with atheists. Plenty of religious believers accept the theory of evolution, including the Pope.

“That’s just an adaptation” is not an opposing argument. It’s a misunderstanding of evolution.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

What was your point in bringing up evolution?

That is simple, you cannot. You can only receive the testimony of the Holy Ghost when his spirit communes with your spirit. No one else can give it to you, however, 2.2 billion people all following the same belief has to count for something. It has to make you ask why and to cause you to question it?

So there is no compelling evidence to believe in any god(s). That’s why I don’t believe in them, as I said at the start.

Like I pointed out before, people believe all kinds of things that aren’t true.

Besides, it is nothing to do with finding the one and only true God, it is about finding your true self, a spirit son or daughter of God. It is then about accountability and repentance. It matters not who your God is. It matters who you are and whether you can lead a Christ centred life that will demonstrate your worthiness and, therefore, your eligibility to live with God again. We are here to be tried and tested in the flesh to determine whether we will choose the right or go the way of the Devil by circuming to the false teachings of mankind.

It doesn’t matter what god you believe in as long as you live a Christ-centred life? Do you not see the contradiction there??

 

[Serenity7855]

Save your lectures and respond to the meat and potatoes of my post, please. Enough with this nonsense. If you can't take someone questioning your opinions and arguments, then debate forums aren't for you.

Post 1005 answers your nugatory post.

 

[Serenity7855]

But the decent thing to do would be to simply clarify your position so that others may better understand you (that's if you have an actual interest in getting your thoughts across to others).

Then i must be pretty darn decent then because Post 1005 answers your nugatory post.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Then i must be pretty darn decent then because Post 1005 answers your nugatory post.

In that post, you basically just said, "You're too stupid to understand." You also ignored (butchered and edited my post, to be exact) the part where I pointed that Christians don't all interpret the Bible in the same way, as evidenced on this very thread and indeed, all over this forum.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Chapter 4
How Satan became the devil—He tempts Eve—Adam and Eve fall, and death enters the world.

1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.

2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

On the contrary, I omitted it on purpose because I recognize who you are and how monumentally wrong you have it so I know that you would ridicule and denounce what is wisdom just because of it's origins. However, please omit it, I inserted it because of its clarity in proving you wrong in saying that the war in heaven is nonsense. I have posted enough Bible scripture to adequately prove that religion is not your forte.

Yeah, I would be ashamed to let people know where I get nonsense like that from too! Do you even read that trash before you post it? No you don't!

"HOW SATAN BECAME THE DEVIL"
v4 "AND HE BECAME SATAN, yea, even the devil"

I'm done with this thread. You should really find someone to help you understand the Bible, you're not doing to good on your own!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yeah, I would be ashamed to let people know where I get nonsense like that from too! Do you even read that trash before you post it? No you don't!
"HOW SATAN BECAME THE DEVIL"
v4 "AND HE BECAME SATAN, yea, even the devil"
I'm done with this thread. You should really find someone to help you understand the Bible, you're not doing to good on your own!

Doesn't James 1:13-15 say each is drawn out by his own desire ?________
So, rebel Satan was enticed by his own wrong desire to have humans worship him.
Satan was Not persecuted, Satan was Not tempted to do wrong, rather Satan failed in showing love.
Thus, Satan turned himself into a Satan ( resister ), a Devil ( slanderer ), a serpent ( deceiver ), and a dragon ( destroyer )
Unlike Satan, Jesus integrity was tested under new and difficult different circumstances - Hebrews 2:10 - and under adverse conditions Jesus did Not fail in showing love.