Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Serenity7855]

You said that we all worship the same God. No, we don't.

There is only one God. we may think that there are more but I do not believe that there is. Unless, of course, the God you worship is Satan.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is only one God. we may think that there are more but I do not believe that there is. Unless, of course, the God you worship is Satan.

You would probably see my Goddess, Kali, as Satan or demonic (I would be surprised if you didn't or if you knew anything about Her). However, my deity has nothing to do with you and your paradigm. I don't believe in a literal Satan.

 

[Serenity7855]

You would probably see my Goddess, Kali, as Satan or demonic (I would be surprised if you didn't or if you knew anything about Her). However, my deity has nothing to do with you and your paradigm. I don't believe in a literal Satan.

Ah, you are hindu. Well, I am not going to critique your religion because I think that it is a very good religion. But Kali is the Hindu Goddess who removes the ego and liberates the soul from the cycle of birth and death. She is the Goddess of Time, Change, Power, Creation, Preservation, and Destruction. I have a great deal of admiration for, respect of, and interest in the religion.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Well, yes. If you did not believe in Darth Vader then what does it matter what ethics he has.

Because well written fiction characters tend to hold a candle up to the human condition. In examining the motivations of Darth Vader we see the part of ourselves that would rule over people in order to create peace. We see a father looking at himself through the eyes of his child. In the end we see the love of a father.

It depends on why you do not believe He exists and what evidence you have that He does not exists. If you have just decided it having no evidence then yes, we are that primitive.

That did not address the question

Really, was there any need for the usual atheist hostility?

I insulted your idea, not you. Try not to be so sensitive.

 

[Demonslayer]

Unless, of course, the God you worship is Satan.

There's still only one in this case.

 

[Demonslayer]

my Goddess, Kali

It appears your Goddess has a necklace made of severed Ron Jeremy heads. That's either extremely disturbing or totally kick-arse. The jury is still out.

 

[viole]

This quote comes from the opening post. "One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence. Not only that, but we can’t remember our pre-earth life which means we have to operate by faith rather than sight." That should clarify for you why you do not recollect it.

And why did Got teach us things, like your above mentioned lesson to happiness, if we could not possibly remember it?
God, or you, or both, seem a bit confused, I am afraid.

By the way, when you say "One thing that makes this life so hard sometimes is that we’re out of God’s physical presence", are you talking about you or the general population?

I don't think my life is harder because of God lack of physical presence. Or at least not harder than the kid's who lost Santa physical presence in his life when he grew up.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

An unborn child cannot show his/her level of valiant's, however, I am sure that you do not think that is what I mean, especially as I have said that they fought so valiantly for God during the war in heaven. It is there that the proved themselves.

A war in heaven? Should we except some more refugees?

So, let me see if I understood that correctly:

1) There is or was a war in Heaven
2) God was commander in chief, but Himself could not shoot a bullet or destroy the enemy, despite being omnipotent
3) Some souls fought valiantly (I wonder who would not fight valiantly, if he/she cannot die)
4) God allows these valiant souls to incarnate as kids
5) The prize for their valor in Heaven, is death by cancer at age one year, suffocation in the cradle, or other special rewards

Is that correct?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Demonslayer]

1) There is or was a war in Heaven
2) God was commander in chief, but Himself could not shoot a bullet or destroy the enemy, despite being omnipotent
3) Some souls fought valiantly (I wonder who would not fight valiantly, if he/she cannot die)
4) God allows these valiant souls to incarnate as kids
5) The prize for their valor in Heaven, is death by cancer at age one year, suffocation in the cradle, or other special rewards

Religion: makes sense to me.

 

[Serenity7855]

A war in heaven? Should we except some more refugees?

So, let me see if I understood that correctly:

1) There is or was a war in Heaven

Revelation 12:7-13King James Version (KJV)

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.​

2) God was commander in chief, but Himself could not shoot a bullet or destroy the enemy, despite being omnipotent

One gets the impression as though to are taking the proverbial here so I will ignore this point.​

3) Some souls fought valiantly (I wonder who would not fight valiantly, if he/she cannot die)

That depend on the type of war it was. Somehow I do not think it was physical as we were all spirits and it was not to the death, because we were all eternal beings, however, it may have been to prevent Satan from putting his plan into action by compelling us to do what is necessary to return removing our free agency and faith. Out of all that fought there were some, who were like Steven Seagal's, Bruce willis' and Vin Diesel's among those that fought. So valiant were they that a mortal probation was unnecessary as they had already proven themselves to be worthy of Eternal Life.​

4) God allows these valiant souls to incarnate as kids

Yes, that is about right.​

5) The prize for their valor in Heaven, is death by cancer at age one year, suffocation in the cradle, or other special rewards

The prize for their unrivalled loyalty was Eternal Life. Everyone receives immortality regardless as to who they are, however, there are those who will receive Eternal Life, through the blood of the Lamb, to live for eternity in the presence of God and progress.​

 

[Demonslayer]

Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

LOL dragons.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Does questioning the ethics of Darth Vader mean i believe that Darth Vader actually exists?

Do you honestly think that humans are so amazingly primitive that they cannot examine the motivations of something they do not believe exists?

What an amazingly stupid, vapid and ignorant statement.

Unless you are playing around with the possibility that he exist in order to answer the question

For example, I love books. One book I like is Neverending Story. I know Sabastian does not exist; however, in order to think about "what if he came and visit me" I'd have to play around or imagine his existence first before even thinking that.

If there is no idea of who Sabastian is or even an idea, how can I play around with the idea of him existing?

In the case of god, I guess you can play around (or imagine) he exists in order to talk about him. For me that is like talking about how the absense of something can be angry at something.

Unless it is imagination--say god with a beard or something--I don't see how I can talk about a non existent thing. What are the properties of this god? (outside of what is written). What does he look like? When he is angry, what does he sound like?

Do you know or are you playing around with the idea others have to create an illusion that god can actually be angry?

 

[viole]

The prize for their unrivalled loyalty was Eternal Life. Everyone receives immortality regardless as to who they are, however, there are those who will receive Eternal Life, through the blood of the Lamb, to live for eternity in the presence of God and progress.​

Small respectful suggestion to the Almighty: if someone deserves eternal life from the start, do not incarnate her into a child that will die of bone cancer. That is a suboptimal and useless step. Obviously.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Serenity7855]

Small respectful suggestion to the Almighty: if someone deserves eternal life from the start, do not incarnate her into a child that will die of bone cancer. That is a suboptimal and useless step. Obviously.

I was genuinely waiting for that one. It is a part of the standard rhetoric of atheists, only they usually use the children that died in the flood as the nucleus of their grievance. And all at the same time they do not actually believe in any of this stuff. Yes, but that old guilt trip for Christians and false indictment of God. I still find it strange as to the motivation of atheists in ridiculing other peoples personal choice of belief. It is none of their business.

I do not think for one moment that God gives a child bone cancer. I don't think that he is capable of that when his character is pure love. I think that illnesses like that are probably inherited from a parent or ancestor by genetic transmission or a faulty or mutated gene has caused it, but God could not cause it, however, as a master scientist, he would have full knowledge that it was going to happen. That being the case, it then becomes a matter of "best practices", utilising what you have in the most efficient way possible to the benefit of everyone concerned. What would you suggest he does, use a perfectly healthy person who will reach the age of 100, or someone whose life will be short lived as a result of illness?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

God intervenes with human suffering all the time. He just intervenes on the side of suffering. What ever made you think that God prefers people to suffering?

 

[Serenity7855]

God intervenes with human suffering all the time. He just intervenes on the side of suffering. What ever made you think that God prefers people to suffering?

The very moment that God intervenes is the moment that we cease to exists as we do. If He intervenes then He automatically takes away the most important ingredient in our existence, "Faith in God". Our faith will turn into knowledge ruining the central core reason of why we are here, to be tried and tested according to our faith in God.

The second problem with God intervening is agency. Freedom to choose. If God intervened then our free agency would be compromised. It will be Gods choice rather than ours. How can we be tried and tested if God intercedes for us. Where in is the test if we do not resolve our own issues.

A key reason why He cannot intervene in person is because He is perfect. He cannot dwell in the presence of imperfection as He to will become imperfect and cease to be God. That is a major reason why we have the Holy Ghost. To testify of the truth.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

You are making Mary a Straw Man

Thank you for demonstrating that you do not know hat a strawman is.

Yes

No, it does not.

And I was quoting your own words

Not in the instance I was referring to.

No, that is just one source that convinces me that God exists.

Then show me the others.

As you made an incorrect assumption it is not circular reasoning

Thank you for letting me know that you do not now what circular logic is.

And you are an atheist ridiculing christianity. That says far more then I think you know.

Do not try to flatter yourself, i ridicule everything I find illogical.

You need me to tell you, who comes on a religious forum and ridicules the beliefs of Christians for no good reason,

I told you my reasons various times. So this shows you ignored them, do not believe them, or are lying about them.

Which is it?

So you come on here and have a go at those who do have a reason to believe, whilst thinking that it cannot be true because if it were then you to would have a reason to believe.

Incorrect.

Im saying if you have a reason to believe you should be able to share it.

Let me assure you that all you will receive is animosity by ridiculing other peoples beliefs

Experience shows otherwise.

I most certainly do not. You misrepresent me.

Try telling a Muslim that he worships the same god as a pagan and see how happy he/she/they would be.

To what evidence do you refer to?

Any valid evidence.

What evidence are you looking for, that God exists? Only I have no evidence for that other than my own personal testimony. The only evidence that you will get is the evidence that you will get if you ask God if it is true.

Tried that and got no answer.

So why does god answer you and not me?

 

[Serenity7855]

Thank you for demonstrating that you do not know hat a strawman is.

It seems to be a standard accusation from atheists. It is hard not to know what a straw man is. A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

You said "And some Christians worship Mary". That was not the argument that was put forward. Buddhists do worship a God. You have stood up Mary as straw man ready to be knocked down.

If I didn't know what a straw man is then why would you thank me for demonstrating that "I do not know hat a strawman is". Although I think you meant "what" and not "hat". Surely a decent human being would offer advice rather then gloat in other peoples ignorance. As it happens I do know what it is and you do not as you have been unable to recognise it.

No, it does not.

How can it not be apart of their religion. Christianity is a lifestyle that reflect on your beliefs. Whatever you do or say is a reflection on your lifestyle and, therefore, your religion.

Not in the instance I was referring to.

In a way that showed your propensity to be a hypocrite.

Then show me the others.

That would be casting my pearl before swine.

Thank you for letting me know that you do not now what circular logic is.

Again, why are you thanking me. I said "As you made an incorrect assumption it is not circular reasoning." How do you deduce from that that I do not know what a circular argument is? I took an element out of your accused circular argument that made it meaningless, thus making your accusation empty. But why are you trying to stupify me with your unfounded assertions that I am uneducated. What is your objective in taunting me, like a true atheist?

Do not try to flatter yourself, i ridicule everything I find illogical

.
Apart from that statement demonstrating that you are not being very nice to me, it is bad manners to ridicule anyone when courtesy can be used instead. Then why do you ridicule Christianity when you are clearly not in the possession of any real knowledge on what it is. You can only comprehend logic and its antithesis if you know what it is.

I told you my reasons various times. So this shows you ignored them, do not believe them, or are lying about them.

No, you have not given your reasons why you deem it your right to insult and ridicule other posters because they so happen to believe something that you don't. If you had then I would have definitely remembered something so bizarre. I asked you "who comes on a religious forum and ridicules the beliefs of Christians for no good reason," as of yet you have avoided answering me. Why do you find entertainment and enjoyment in ridiculing the beliefs of Christians for no good reason,

Incorrect.

Well, you are not going to admit it are you.

Im saying if you have a reason to believe you should be able to share it.

And how do you propose that I do that?

Experience shows otherwise.

Not with me

Try telling a Muslim that he worships the same god as a pagan and see how happy he/she/they would be.

Why would I do that. I am not of the same level of intellect or hostility as you are. I would loath to upset anyone else's beliefs by ridiculing their religion when their is no reason to do that. That I think that we all worship the same God is my belief. I do not know for a surety as I have not seen God so I have to speculate.

Any valid evidence.

I have no evidence to give you. The only way that you can know what I know is to follow the advice of God.

James 1:5-6

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Tried that and got no answer.

So why does god answer you and not me?

Ask God with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. But your life must be right. You must be as morally clean as you can be and striving to keep the commandments to show that you are serious about it. If you do not want it bad enough then you will not get it. If you live a Christ like life then I guaranty you that you will feel the Holy Ghost testifying to your soul in a way that you cannot deny or even want to. A bit of a tall order to make but it happened to me and God has said that it can happen to everyone. My only advice would be to avoid those who want to give well intentioned advice. Make it personal between you and God. Trust in your sensual feeling. Listen to your own council rather then your pastors misconceptions. Contrary to beliefs, the spirit of God does not speak verbally He speaks in concepts and emotions so you will need to be alert and attentive as much is said in very little time. If you hear voices than you need to see a doctor. By this form of communication you will be able to discern whether you are just speaking to yourself or if you are receiving a communication from an external source, the Holy Ghost. Do not ask Him to tell you what you should do but tell Him what you want to do and wait for a confirmation, usually felt like a warm swelling of the bosom, or a stupor of thought. A communication with the Holy Ghost cannot be mistaken with anything else. It is uniques so you will not mistake it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Buddhists do worship a God.

Incorrect.

There are some form of Buddhism which worship gods due to influence from other relgions.

But classical Buddhism is atheistic.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

How can it not be apart of their religion. Christianity is a lifestyle that reflect on your beliefs. Whatever you do or say is a reflection on your lifestyle and, therefore, your religion.

I was referring to Christianity as a whole.

In a way that showed your propensity to be a hypocrite.

Rhetoric and avoidance.

That would be casting my pearl before swine.

Im ending the conversation right here.

You say you have evidence but will not show it.

That either means you are a liar or you do not want it to be debunked.