Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering

[Ve Zivko]

Aw c'mon, you must certainly have started your trip with a prayer. Otherwise why would you not have looked for a seat belt in the first place? But then when you started to demonstrate a lack of faith in your prayer request, God decided toll give you a good scare to teach you a lesson. It's so obvious. I mean, your can completely rule out coincidence.

People don't need to be scared into being good people, they simply decide for themselves what kind of people they are.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

The problem is there is no evidence of God having prevented any suffering.

Just because there is no evidence, does not mean it isn't so. So the possibility in my post remains.

 

[Serenity7855]

The problem is there is no evidence of God having prevented any suffering.

Well, I can testify that God exists, unless you think that I am delusional, a liar, or completely off my trolley. I know of 2.2 billion human beings who can do the same. There is the Anthropic principle, or fine tuning, that is a consideration. There is the Big Bang and Kalams Cosmological Argument. There is the Higgs Boson, Dark Energy and Dark Matter that testified that a superior entity exists. There is Quantum Physics that testified of a God more than any other phenomena. There is Abiogenesis that is a definite act of God with the associated Theory of Evolution. What about the life and mission of Jesus Christ, who has been proven to have existed within a 60 years, or less, eye witness account. And not to forget the miraculous phenomenons like Rapid Expansion and String Theory. So when you say no evidence then I take it that you have either no knowledge of these evidences or you do not see the divine in phenomenon that reaks of the hand of God. I used to think that those who claim academic superiority see something that we don't, making us inferior in our capabilities to reason and discern, however, it is that very trait that cloaks their ability to see what is reality and who, exactly, is deluded and cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Well, I can testify that God exists, unless you think that I am delusional, a liar, or completely off my trolley.

....or just misled.

 

[Serenity7855]

....or just misled.

No, that would come under the rubric of delusion, however, just say I am misled, what about the other 2.2 - 1 billion human beings, could they all be misled as well? Unlikely!

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

No, that would come under the rubric of delusion, however, just say I am misled, what about the other 2.2 - 1 billion human beings, could they all be misled as well? Unlikely!

A good portion of em. Why do you think most people believe? Because their parents and family taught them to. The best indoctrination and watchdog vehicle available. And it all goes back to when they first learned that everybody dies. "You gonna die, and if you aren't good, you're goin' to Hell boy? Fear. Starts at a very early age, and the children sense it in their parents from when they were taught. The last thing the establishment is gonna do is give em the tools to think rationally.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Trying to prove to spiritually undeveloped people that God exists is like trying convince a rock that the animal kingdom exists. That the mineral kingdom is unaware of the animal kingdom does not mean it does not exist. God is a spiritual Being and cannot be perceived with physical senses but only spiritual senses. The spiritual realm exists but not to materialists. Like the rock they cannot perceive it and to try to talk to a rock is useless. Only the heavenly Books can give the gift of spiritual life for they are imbued with spiritual powers. When a person reads the Word of God sincerely and humbly he/she will become spiritually alive and perceive that there is a God. That a Book could change the lives of billions and that civilisations are founded on religions is an outward proof of the power of the Word of God.

Can a blind person see the sun? Can a person with a cold smell even the most beautiful perfume? Spiritual perception depends upon sincerity and humility. The proud and arrogant are always bereft of spiritual truth because they act as a veil. Consider the eyelid how thin it is yet closed the world is non existent. So too, when the insistent self and ego control a person they cannot see spiritual truth. We need to read the Holy Books humbly and sincerely if we are true seekers of truth otherwise we will never know anything about spiritual things.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Trying to prove to spiritually undeveloped people that God exists is like trying convince a rock that the animal kingdom exists. That the mineral kingdom is unaware of the animal kingdom does not mean it does not exist. God is a spiritual Being and cannot be perceived with physical senses but only spiritual senses.

Well then, that would mean there are no miracles or divine revelation since we're to dim to even hear them, much less understand them.

The spiritual realm exists but not to materialists.

How can undeveloped people differentiate between materialism and spiritualism. You can't have it both ways. but you aren't trying to convince me, you're trying convince yourself.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Everyone has the capacity ( a soul) to know God. We turn aside through choice. All the people on earth have been given a mind to investigate reality for them self. The Prophets have also appeared from age to age to help us with Holy Books to awaken our spiritual beings. But we all are given the freedom to choose our own path. If we want to believe that there is no God and only this world then we are free to do so. When a person chooses to deny the truth then there's nothing anyone can do as this is his/her freedom to choose. So it's useless trying to convince such a person because they have already made up their mind. Man has the ability to see the visible and invisible world's through his spirit or mind unlike a rock but if he chooses only to see what is in front of him physically then he lives like a rock unaware of other kingdoms but with man this need not be.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Everyone has the capacity ( a soul) to know God. We turn aside through choice. All the people on earth have been given a mind to investigate reality for them self. The Prophets have also appeared from age to age to help us with Holy Books to awaken our spiritual beings. But we all are given the freedom to choose our own path. If we want to believe that there is no God and only this world then we are free to do so. When a person chooses to deny the truth then there's nothing anyone can do as this is his/her freedom to choose. So it's useless trying to convince such a person because they have already made up their mind. Man has the ability to see the visible and invisible world's through his spirit or mind unlike a rock but if he chooses only to see what is in front of him physically then he lives like a rock unaware of other kingdoms but with man this need not be.

Nothing but hearsay from beginning to end. BTW, I overcame my religious indoctrination on my own, and changed my mind on my own based on reason rather than blind faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because we can logically eliminate all of the candidates for God but deism's. Thus we're left with deism or atheism, and the only difference between those choices from our vantage point is hope.

If our only choices are an irrelevant, unjustifiable god that's indistinguishable from a non-existent god and no god at all, why would the question of God's existence matter?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, I can testify that God exists, unless you think that I am delusional, a liar, or completely off my trolley.

I haven't seen any reason yet to dismiss the possibility.

... though from what you say next, I wouldn't chalk your beliefs up to being outright delusional or a liar; you just seem not to be a very clear thinker, at least on this issue.

I know of 2.2 billion human beings who can do the same. There is the Anthropic principle, or fine tuning, that is a consideration. There is the Big Bang and Kalams Cosmological Argument. There is the Higgs Boson, Dark Energy and Dark Matter that testified that a superior entity exists. There is Quantum Physics that testified of a God more than any other phenomena. There is Abiogenesis that is a definite act of God with the associated Theory of Evolution.

I don't know you, so maybe you're perfectly rational in other aspects of your life... but stuff like what you just said is irrational.

 

[idav]

I'd say god intervenes too much since most everything is out of our control and range of power. We need at least a team of X-Men otherwise we are pretty weak creatures and not even close to god-like.

 

[Serenity7855]

A good portion of em. Why do you think most people believe? Because their parents and family taught them to. The best indoctrination and watchdog vehicle available. And it all goes back to when they first learned that everybody dies. "You gonna die, and if you aren't good, you're goin' to Hell boy? Fear. Starts at a very early age, and the children sense it in their parents from when they were taught. The last thing the establishment is gonna do is give em the tools to think rationally.

That is how the unbeliever sees it and not those who have communed and received the testimony of the Holy Ghost. It is like witnessing the most perfect sunset. Once you have seen it the memory of it's beauty remains with you forever, helping to mold you into the person you are. If you have never witnessed that sunset then it is inevitable that you will question it's existence

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

If our only choices are an irrelevant, unjustifiable god that's indistinguishable from a non-existent god and no god at all, why would the question of God's existence matter?

You know the answer to that. The question is irrelevant, unless there's a Hereafter.

That is how the unbeliever sees it and not those who have communed and received the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

Oh pleeez. I received the testimony, as a child, because I was child, but I grew up and learned how to judge things rationally. That's something you can't so if you have blind faith hanging around your neck and kissing it 50 times a day.

 

[Serenity7855]

I haven't seen any reason yet to dismiss the possibility.

though from what you say next, I wouldn't chalk your beliefs up to being outright delusional or a liar; you just seem not to be a very clear thinker, at least on this issue.

I don't know you, so maybe you're perfectly rational in other aspects of your life... but stuff like what you just said is irrational.

Can you see this logical fallacy "Ad hominem" in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself, That is, the existence of deity. I was defending the existence of God, not myself. You need to direct your remarks to what I say, not who you THINK I am.

 

[Serenity7855]

Well for one there is no god, and second if there was he then is weak and shouldn't be in his position, if I was or you were god, would you let all this happen, of course not, so we ourselves are much better than god.

You say there is no God then you put up an argument against a God that you say doesn't.exist.

In response to your claim that God does not exist, I would have to ask you to prove your assertion, and secondly, advice you that the Plan of Salvation does not allow for God to intervene, it is for us to be tried and tested and to recognize our faults and failing and then to forsake them. It is to be our choice and not a God assisted persuasions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Nothing but hearsay from beginning to end. BTW, I overcame my religious indoctrination on my own, and changed my mind on my own based on reason rather than blind faith.

Then we must respect and accept where you're at. That's where I was once but new facts came to light which later changed my mind.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Can you see this logical fallacy "Ad hominem" in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself, That is, the existence of deity. I was defending the existence of God, not myself.

I think you misunderstand what the ad hominem fallacy is:

- ad hominem: "you're a fool, therefore what you're saying is irrational."
- not an ad hominem: "what you're saying is irrational, therefore you're behaving foolishly."

You need to direct your remarks to what I say, not who you THINK I am.

I didn't bring up your character; you did. I just replied... and I did so in a way that WAS focused on what you said. If you missed it, re-read the last sentence of my post.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

If god really cares about his people he would not let anything like that happen to them.