Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[9Westy9]

That is frightening beyond words.To believe we have succeeded God in knowledge is an incredible statement and one only a non-believer could ever have.

Only if we believe that God is omniscient plus I was mainly addressing the somewhat backward morality of the bible. If God knows better than us then why does his moral commands, in the bible, seem so immoral? My answer would be that God didn't issue them and that they're man made from a time with less understanding than what we have in our current age.

Imagine that Their is such a God, Imagine he is smarter than you, Imagine he did create you and all that does entail, and imagine yourself telling him you have succeeded him....I Don't have to imagine, I have seen this scenario played out already with the fall of Lucifer.....

if he's smarter than me then he would have made a book that explains all his commands rather than a "x is good therefore do x" or "y is bad so don't do y"

 

[LuisDantas]

O.k., but 'secular society' is not a good measure of what's moral, regardless of religion/lack of it

What do you mean exactly? Secular understandings of morals have quite consistently been the best available, up to this day.

 

[Desert Snake]

What do you mean exactly? Secular understandings of morals have quite consistently been the best available, up to this day.

I think we agree but are arguing our points from a misunderstanding of what the other means

 

[CG Didymus]

this is my belief based upon my scriptures.
God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I found a quote from Spurgeon at [/FONT]Answer misconceptions about Calvinism[FONT=&quot] "(W)e hold that all infants are elect of God and are therefore saved..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] CHS Sermons vol 7:385
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If I were a parent of lets say three children that died. They were six, eight, and fourteen. Suppose, I raised them to be moral, respectful and in a new age religion that believes in reincarnation. I tell my wife, "Don't worry. They were good kids. They've grown spiritually and will come back in a better situation." Our neighbor, a Presbyterian, comes over and says, "Don't worry Jesus loves the younger two and has them with him in heaven because kids are elected. Too bad about your older boy. Oh, and unless you repent and believe, I guess too bad for you too. You'll never see your little ones again. Sorry, but somebody has to tell you the real truth." Their atheist neighbor comes over and says, "Tough break, they were hit by a drunk, huh? That's how natural selection goes. Oh, well, we're all worm food anyway. We can take heart in that our physical bodies will feed a new generation of microbes and maggots. See ya, have a nice day." A third neighbor comes over and says, "Too bad you're not in my religion. We believe in a ritual that purifies children at birth. Oh well, too late now for your bunch. Oh, and by the way, did you hear the guy that killed your kids felt so bad that he accepted Jesus. Unfortunately, his cellmate smothered him last night in his sleep. Weird, isn't it. He's in heaven and your kids are probably in hell. Anyway, you two think about it. There's still time for you to get yourselves saved. And, remember, God loves you."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lady B, does anyone have the perfect answer? Can anyone make perfect sense of what is going on?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Brickjectivity]

I am sorry you see God as evil, cold and uncaring.

I think we should not continue, because its going to become an argument, and arguing is not our friend. "The God of peace will crush Satan under your feet." Your love for your kids speaks volumes. We can believe God is personal or impersonal, and it doesn't change who God actually is or isn't. It doesn't change how much you love your kids. What matters to God is how we treat one another, and how you treat me is more important that knowing what to say. Treating each other respectfully and attentively is like walking with a light to see by. Anyone who claims they don't need correction, doesn't listen, has no truth in themselves. I can see your wisdom without checking your scriptural verbiage, and I don't confuse the two. What matters is that you listened to me and I listened to you, which is caring. The argument will resolve itself without us.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Where does free will come into play? At which point in the chain of physical causes leading up to a death does god intervene with a supernatural cause?

What does the first sentence have to do with the second? God doesn't intervene period.

 

[Lady B]

I am from my phone but want to tell you all merry Christmas!! It is 12 am

 

[Lady B]

I think we should not continue, because its going to become an argument, and arguing is not our friend. "The God of peace will crush Satan under your feet." Your love for your kids speaks volumes. We can believe God is personal or impersonal, and it doesn't change who God actually is or isn't. It doesn't change how much you love your kids. What matters to God is how we treat one another, and how you treat me is more important that knowing what to say. Treating each other respectfully and attentively is like walking with a light to see by. Anyone who claims they don't need correction, doesn't listen, has no truth in themselves. I can see your wisdom without checking your scriptural verbiage, and I don't confuse the two. What matters is that you listened to me and I listened to you, which is caring. The argument will resolve itself without us.

I will never argue your pain, it is real and I feel you have it, I just want to say Merry Christmas without any underlining message and let you know I am not evading your true sincere experiences. You have my heart on this eve.B

 

[Lady B]

this is my belief based upon my scriptures.
God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I found a quote from Spurgeon at [/FONT]Answer misconceptions about Calvinism[FONT=&quot] "(W)e hold that all infants are elect of God and are therefore saved..."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] CHS Sermons vol 7:385
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If I were a parent of lets say three children that died. They were six, eight, and fourteen. Suppose, I raised them to be moral, respectful and in a new age religion that believes in reincarnation. I tell my wife, "Don't worry. They were good kids. They've grown spiritually and will come back in a better situation." Our neighbor, a Presbyterian, comes over and says, "Don't worry Jesus loves the younger two and has them with him in heaven because kids are elected. Too bad about your older boy. Oh, and unless you repent and believe, I guess too bad for you too. You'll never see your little ones again. Sorry, but somebody has to tell you the real truth." Their atheist neighbor comes over and says, "Tough break, they were hit by a drunk, huh? That's how natural selection goes. Oh, well, we're all worm food anyway. We can take heart in that our physical bodies will feed a new generation of microbes and maggots. See ya, have a nice day." A third neighbor comes over and says, "Too bad you're not in my religion. We believe in a ritual that purifies children at birth. Oh well, too late now for your bunch. Oh, and by the way, did you hear the guy that killed your kids felt so bad that he accepted Jesus. Unfortunately, his cellmate smothered him last night in his sleep. Weird, isn't it. He's in heaven and your kids are probably in hell. Anyway, you two think about it. There's still time for you to get yourselves saved. And, remember, God loves you."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lady B, does anyone have the perfect answer? Can anyone make perfect sense of what is going on?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Anyone that would ever make a judgement call for children and say anything to bereaving parents are in my belief misspoken. When I have some time after Christmas I will like to show you Christ's love for children until then have peace .

 

[starlite]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From my observation I've concluded that the earth has once again become filled with violence, just as it was in Noah’s day. My study of the Bible has provided comfort for me. Jesus is known by many as the Prince of Peace and as King of God's Kingdom he will bring peaceful conditions to the earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](Psalm 37:9, 10) NWT [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif](Psalm 37:11) NWT [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.[/FONT]

 

[Copernicus]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From my observation I've concluded that the earth has once again become filled with violence, just as it was in Noah’s day..[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT]

Once again? You mean things were relatively peaceful until recently? Starlite, I would like to suggest that you go to the library and pick out any book in the history section. It doesn't matter which era it covers or which part of the world. Read that book.

 

[starlite]

Violence has existed since Cain and Able....what I mean is that violence is once again at the point where God will intervene just as he did in Noah's time.

New International Version (©1984)
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
New Living Translation (©2007)
"When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah's day.
English Standard Version (©2001)
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be.
International Standard Version (©2012)
because just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But just as the days of Noah, so will the coming of The Son of Man be.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"When the Son of Man comes again, it will be exactly like the days of Noah.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
American King James Version
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
American Standard Version
And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

 

[McBell]

Violence has existed since Cain and Able....what I mean is that violence is once again at the point where God will intervene just as he did in Noah's time.

The problem with the idea that the violence has recently "once again" gotten to that level is that it has been worse than it is now in the recent past.

Seems you are suffering from not being aware of what is going on in the world syndrome.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From my observation I've concluded that the earth has once again become filled with violence, just as it was in Noah’s day. My study of the Bible has provided comfort for me. Jesus is known by many as the Prince of Peace and as King of God's Kingdom he will bring peaceful conditions to the earth.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]

There has always been great violence some places and many places on the globe. And Jesus said himself that he came not to bring peace, but a sword.

Violence has existed since Cain and Able....what I mean is that violence is once again at the point where God will intervene just as he did in Noah's time.

God never has, must not and can not intervene without destroying the rational structure of the universe and our free will with it. If God was ever going to intervene, He would have done it when Jesus cleansed the Temple for that very purpose. That was the source for Jesus' expression of betrayal on the cross. But it wasn't betrayal, it was God not intervening, as always. Faith cannot move mountains, only time and the elements can do that.

This world is a stage where each of us is tested as an individual, even Jesus, who was only a man like the rest of us.

 

[CG Didymus]

There has always been great violence some places and many places on the globe. And Jesus said himself that he came not to bring peace, but a sword.



God never has, must not and can not intervene without destroying the rational structure of the universe and our free will with it. If God was ever going to intervene, He would have done it when Jesus cleansed the Temple for that very purpose. That was the source for Jesus' expression of betrayal on the cross. But it wasn't betrayal, it was God not intervening, as always. Faith cannot move mountains, only time and the elements can do that.

This world is a stage where each of us is tested as an individual, even Jesus, who was only a man like the rest of us.

Christmas has caused warring tribes to lay down their weapons and live in peace for a precious moment in time. The thought of the Christ child and the hope of peace was enough to get them to forget their fighting and come together in prayer for a day, and then, go back to slaughtering each other. So it is possible. How ironic that it is a make believe holiday that gets them to do it.

Who is the "Prince of Peace" and what was he supposed to do for the nation of Israel? Even if he said he wasn't going to do it then but when he comes back, he said he was coming back soon. When is soon? Did Jesus expect his followers to use violence to promote Christianity and protect themselves? Did Jesus want his followers to fight each other?
I'm leaning toward The PainefulTruth, especially with Don Quixote in the picture, lots of Christians are the ones that did the torturing, burning at the stake and forcing their form of Christianity upon the world. Lots of Christians have done a great deal of good in the world, but there's been enough bad to go along with it to warrant some people to ask, "Is it worth the price?"
Christianity has been the mountain in the way of civilization and science moving forward in many ways. In their defense, maybe it's more like they are a dam holding back the tide of evil ready to sweep all of us into utter darkness. Unfortunately, Christianity seems like they are more like the former. They to often appear that they are a mountain of archaic, superstitious beliefs that have never worked in a large scale society to bring love and peace in the world.
But, thank you Lady B, for opening up a dialogue to air out these issues. I hope you're having a wonderful Christmas. Christmas is the exception; it always brings love and peaceful feelings, except maybe at the mall. Only is we had another year long myth we could all get behind.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

For me, Christmas is more than the celebration of a myth about wise men, shepherds, a star and the birth of a man-god. I think, for me at least, it has become a secular and spiritual celebration, founded in the Chanukah festival of light ( of :candle: Truth ), and of our collective renewal at the Winter Solstice.

 

[Desert Snake]

For me, Christmas is more than the celebration of a myth about wise men, shepherds, a star and the birth of a man-god. I think, for me at least, it has become a secular and spiritual celebration, founded in the Chanukah festival of light ( of :candle: Truth ), and of our collective renewal at the Winter Solstice.

I don't think Christmas was founded in Hannakuh, if you think otherwise what is your rationalization?

 

[Copernicus]

We celebrate Christmas on a pagan holiday--December 25 under the old Julian calendar, but moved to the new date under the Gregorian calendar. It was supposedly originally declared the official date of the celebration of Christ's birth by Pope Julius I after 336 AD. That coincided with a number of pagan celebrations of the winter solstice (e.g. Saturnalia), including the birth of the Sun god Mithras (Dies Natalis Solis Invicti). Mithraism was very much a rival of Christianity for the state religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine favored Christianity, and his armies prevailed.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I don't think Christmas was founded in Hannakuh, if you think otherwise what is your rationalization?

We celebrate Christmas on a pagan holiday--December 25 under the old Julian calendar, but moved to the new date under the Gregorian calendar. It was supposedly originally declared the official date of the celebration of Christ's birth by Pope Julius I after 336 AD. That coincided with a number of pagan celebrations of the winter solstice (e.g. Saturnalia), including the birth of the Sun god Mithras (Dies Natalis Solis Invicti). Mithraism was very much a rival of Christianity for the state religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine favored Christianity, and his armies prevailed.

My point is that many religious, pagan and secular celebrations and festivals were centered on or around the solstice, including Christmas. I picked Chanukah to emphasize due to it's emphasis on light, it being also known as "The Festival of Light(s)".

 

[Falvlun]

That is frightening beyond words.To believe we have succeeded God in knowledge is an incredible statement and one only a non-believer could ever have.Imagine that Their is such a God, Imagine he is smarter than you, Imagine he did create you and all that does entail, and imagine yourself telling him you have succeeded him....I Don't have to imagine, I have seen this scenario played out already with the fall of Lucifer.....

No, we are suggesting that the knowledge you claim about God is incorrect. We believe that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God would not act in the manner in which you describe.

You seem to be shocked that someone could claim knowledge about how God should be, yet, that is precisely what you and millions of other believers are doing. You claim that you know that God acts in such and such way, that he wants such and such things, that he commanded such and such actions, etc. If we are presumptuous to say how we believe God would act, if he did actually exist, how much more presumptuous are you to claim that you KNOW how God acts when you actually do believe he exists?