Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[adi2d]

I'm making some popcorn. Anyone want some?

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm making some popcorn. Anyone want some?

I stepped out for a minute. Did we decide if God was evil or not yet?

 

[1robin]

Sorry for some reason I cannot use the quote option in this site so I will color code my response to your questions.

No problem.

Yes Jesus died on the cross for our sins but the concept that everyone who accept Jesus as savior is born again is a fundamental religious view. It also says he that is born of God does not sin. Are you sinless????

If you look at the context of those versus there are two possibilities. Being born again is a spiritual state. Sinning is a legal state.

First I believe that God was saying that even though we sin our sins are after being born again a symptom of our natural fallible state, as Paul so eloquently stated:

New International Version
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

No one would say that Paul was not saved and on his way to heaven yet he still sinned. We sin in the same way a child sins and it no longer is accounted to us eternally. Every sin I will ever commit was taken care of on the cross. I no longer am being eternally charged for my sin, the same way a child is legally innocent even though they sin.

Second: It could be that habitual sin was what was intended. Everyone commits sins on a daily basis but most Christians do not get stuck in sinful non-stop habits. I believe the one above but through this one in as a possibility.

The one things that cannot be true is that those verses mean a born again believer is perfect and sinless. The same Bible states that if ANY claims to be without sin then he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Yes you are your religious believe condemns billions of lost souls God never called. Your wish will come true because all in Adam will be made alive in Christ. All flesh will see the salvation of God. Its god’s timing not yours.

I do not have the power nor desire to condemn anyone. I simply believe the Bible and the Bible states we have condemned our selves. The only escape mechanism provided is being born again through faith in Christ. I have no power or need to condemn anything, God's standards already have.

New International Version
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

By belief it implies the level of belief that results in new birth. Demons have an intellectual consent to the nature of Christ yet are not saved. Most have some superficial faith in Christ. The level of faith required to get to heaven is exactly that level that produces the born again experience.

My comments did not concern time, only criteria.

This is true, But what you are missing is this is speaking about God’s elect not all people God will call in the ages to come.

No that is a commentary on what God has done. He sent his son to offer salvation and call all to repentance. Most will not go. Some will seek God with all their heart and if willing will be chosen. To everyone who is born again the Holy Spirit is instantly given as earnest of salvation. To everyone born again Christ promised he will never leave them.

1. A person must be born again.
2. Once born again that person can never lose the salvation he did not produce. God is the power behind salvation and he guarantees it. How can anyone overcome a seal placed on someone by God.

You still have not answered this question. You do not have to, but if you would I would appreciate it. What exactly took place the moment you were saved?

 

[Benoni]

1Robin:

No problem.



Quote:
Yes Jesus died on the cross for our sins but the concept that everyone who accept Jesus as savior is born again is a fundamental religious view. It also says he that is born of God does not sin. Are you sinless????

If you look at the context of those versus there are two possibilities. Being born again is a spiritual state. Sinning is a legal state.
I think Jesus took care of the legal state and the spiritual state on Calvary. He does not need to die again. I think we are all born sinners under the curse of Adam which was and is a big part of God's plan.
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Notice the unjust or as you fundies like to put it unsaved.

Eternal in its real sense means without beginning and without end; man has a beginning; so how can he be truly an eternal being.

God deals with man by ages. Man was created in God’s image; but he fell; man will return to that place of being made in God’s image either in this life or latter. It was God who caused man’s fall and Adam had no choice.

A THOROUGH CHANGE! THAT is what I mean by ... RECONCILIATION!


Being born again is a spiritual state as you say in which carnal man cannot obtain unless God calls Him first and carnal has no desire to be saved or freewill for he is carnal and all things spiritual are foolishness to him; this called grace.
Besides God is not calling the whole world now so how can someone not called be saved? Yet you condemn those not called.

First I believe that God was saying that even though we sin our sins are after being born again a symptom of our natural fallible state, as Paul so eloquently stated:

I have no problem with believers sinning but I do have a problem with the catch phrase “born again” I do not believe most who think they are born again are truly born again. I do believe they are justified by faith

 

[Benoni]

Quote:
Yes you are your religious believe condemns billions of lost souls God never called. Your wish will come true because all in Adam will be made alive in Christ. All flesh will see the salvation of God. Its god’s timing not yours.
I do not have the power nor desire to condemn anyone. I simply believe the Bible and the Bible states we have condemned our selves. The only escape mechanism provided is being born again through faith in Christ. I have no power or need to condemn anything, God's standards already have.
Yes this is true you only believe the verses that condemn and damn and refuse to see the verses that declare the salvation of all men.

New International Version
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

This is true but does not the Greek word for condemn and damn also mean judged and probated??? I know this is not taught in fundies Bible school


By belief it implies the level of belief that results in new birth. Demons have an intellectual consent to the nature of Christ yet are not saved. Most have some superficial faith in Christ. The level of faith required to get to heaven is exactly that level that produces the born again experience.

My comments did not concern time, only criteria.

In my Fathers house are many mansions; or Greek abiding place. All people have a different abiding place then me. My place is not to condemn that abiding place but to seek, ask and knock to know God in a deeper abiding place that I am now. If God has not called you in another abiding place/spiritual room/spiritual plane/deeper understanding then that is all you can understand. Many are shallow, superficial, and religious or where ever God has placed them; you cannot change that; only God’s spirit has that power to draw all men to Himself.




Quote:
This is true, But what you are missing is this is speaking about God’s elect not all people God will call in the ages to come.
No that is a commentary on what God has done. He sent his son to offer salvation and call all to repentance. Most will not go. Some will seek God with all their heart and if willing will be chosen. To everyone who is born again the Holy Spirit is instantly given as earnest of salvation. To everyone born again Christ promised he will never leave them.

1. A person must be born again.
2. Once born again that person can never lose the salvation he did not produce. God is the power behind salvation and he guarantees it. How can anyone overcome a seal placed on someone by God.

you just said God has called all to repentance . BUT then you say most won't go? WHY?

Yes all will be called to repentance in His timing not the Baptist church; that is the reason God is calling His elect now. How can the vast majority of God’s creation be “born again” now in this age?

Go is Islam and see how far your message will be heard, how about North Korea or even most devote Catholic countries?

God has never called them.

God is not calling all people now.

1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to betestified in due time.

"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:39).

1 Corinthians 15:22-24
http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2
http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=222For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[kjw47]

No problem. [/font][/color]



If you look at the context of those versus there are two possibilities. Being born again is a spiritual state. Sinning is a legal state.

First I believe that God was saying that even though we sin our sins are after being born again a symptom of our natural fallible state, as Paul so eloquently stated:

New International Version
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

No one would say that Paul was not saved and on his way to heaven yet he still sinned. We sin in the same way a child sins and it no longer is accounted to us eternally. Every sin I will ever commit was taken care of on the cross. I no longer am being eternally charged for my sin, the same way a child is legally innocent even though they sin.

Second: It could be that habitual sin was what was intended. Everyone commits sins on a daily basis but most Christians do not get stuck in sinful non-stop habits. I believe the one above but through this one in as a possibility.

The one things that cannot be true is that those verses mean a born again believer is perfect and sinless. The same Bible states that if ANY claims to be without sin then he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

I do not have the power nor desire to condemn anyone. I simply believe the Bible and the Bible states we have condemned our selves. The only escape mechanism provided is being born again through faith in Christ. I have no power or need to condemn anything, God's standards already have.

New International Version
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

By belief it implies the level of belief that results in new birth. Demons have an intellectual consent to the nature of Christ yet are not saved. Most have some superficial faith in Christ. The level of faith required to get to heaven is exactly that level that produces the born again experience.

My comments did not concern time, only criteria.



No that is a commentary on what God has done. He sent his son to offer salvation and call all to repentance. Most will not go. Some will seek God with all their heart and if willing will be chosen. To everyone who is born again the Holy Spirit is instantly given as earnest of salvation. To everyone born again Christ promised he will never leave them.

1. A person must be born again.
2. Once born again that person can never lose the salvation he did not produce. God is the power behind salvation and he guarantees it. How can anyone overcome a seal placed on someone by God.

You still have not answered this question. You do not have to, but if you would I would appreciate it. What exactly took place the moment you were saved?

Anyone can run around and say--I am born again and it might be truth, it might not be truth--one fact is sure-- no mortal man wearing a white collar can tell another they are born again or saved. They do not have a clue as to who is in reality.

 

[Thana]

Anyone can run around and say--I am born again and it might be truth, it might not be truth--one fact is sure-- no mortal man wearing a white collar can tell another they are born again or saved. They do not have a clue as to who is in reality.

This ^^^^

 

[adi2d]

I stepped out for a minute. Did we decide if God was evil or not yet?

It looks like they are unwilling to take a stand on that question. Either that or we just wouldn't understand their answers. Guess we should just be thankful we get to read their wisdom

 

[halokitty]

God doesn't have hands. We know he has caused great destruction to evil places. But should he kill 100 people to prevent one murder? If he sees fit, yes. But we know that no one really dies. That's why hell exists. And evil is punished in the afterlife.

 

[SkepticThinker]

God doesn't have hands. We know he has caused great destruction to evil places. But should he kill 100 people to prevent one murder? If he sees fit, yes. But we know that no one really dies. That's why hell exists. And evil is punished in the afterlife.

We actually do know that everyone dies, that's one of those things we pretty much know for sure.

As to what happens after we die, well, that could be just about anything. Or nothing.

 

[CG Didymus]

It looks like they are unwilling to take a stand on that question. Either that or we just wouldn't understand their answers. Guess we should just be thankful we get to read their wisdom

Is there any popcorn left?

 

[CG Didymus]

Anyone can run around and say--I am born again and it might be truth, it might not be truth--one fact is sure-- no mortal man wearing a white collar can tell another they are born again or saved. They do not have a clue as to who is in reality.

I like how it says that by their "fruits" you will know them. And also, how James says that he'll show you his faith by his deeds. Unfortunately, professing Christians aren't perfect so those of us that question their beliefs can too easily point a finger at them and say, "Hey, what's so great about your God and Jesus? Look at you and the rest of the Christian world. It's a mess." We also like to judge their concept of who God is. He's supposed to be all loving and all knowing, but by his action recorded in the Bible, he doesn't seem that way.

 

[CG Didymus]

God doesn't have hands. We know he has caused great destruction to evil places. But should he kill 100 people to prevent one murder? If he sees fit, yes. But we know that no one really dies. That's why hell exists. And evil is punished in the afterlife.

Do we really know hell exists? It's not necessarily part of Judaism, and probably has more in common with Zoroastrianism and the Greek religious beliefs.

 

[Benoni]

Anyone can run around and say--I am born again and it might be truth, it might not be truth--one fact is sure-- no mortal man wearing a white collar can tell another they are born again or saved. They do not have a clue as to who is in reality.

I agree it is overrated in fundie circles. Notice He is trying to see if I am born again so I he can label me. Does not matter to him if he can see the Christ in me a;; he cares about is a manmade label.

 

[kjw47]

I like how it says that by their "fruits" you will know them. And also, how James says that he'll show you his faith by his deeds. Unfortunately, professing Christians aren't perfect so those of us that question their beliefs can too easily point a finger at them and say, "Hey, what's so great about your God and Jesus? Look at you and the rest of the Christian world. It's a mess." We also like to judge their concept of who God is. He's supposed to be all loving and all knowing, but by his action recorded in the Bible, he doesn't seem that way.

Gods word teaches by fruits one can see who the true followers are--but it also teaches--those who endure till the end will be saved---- not a single mortal knows who will endure till the end. To a mortal who cannot see future nor can read a true heart, might think that one or this one is saved--but they must endure till the end and not 1 mortal can see that. So they have no right to tell another they are saved.

 

[Benoni]

Gods word teaches by fruits one can see who the true followers are--but it also teaches--those who endure till the end will be saved---- not a single mortal knows who will endure till the end. To a mortal who cannot see future nor can read a true heart, might think that one or this one is saved--but they must endure till the end and not 1 mortal can see that. So they have no right to tell another they are saved.

I see all will be saved in the end.

​

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Luke 3: 6 (Amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God (the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

 

[Ingledsva]

I see all will be saved in the end.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Luke 3: 6 (Amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God (the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

It does not say ALL will be saved.


1 Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


It specifies only those that - ARE CHRIST's - AT HIS COMING.


In Luke 2:10 the only thing brought to ALL PEOPLE, is TIDINGS of great joy, not salvation.


Luke 3:6 doesn't mean all will accept, acknowledge, or be delivered from death, either.


Luke 3 talks about bad fruit being cast into the fire (3:9,) and about separating the wheat from the chaff (3:17.)


Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.



Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

Do we really know hell exists? It's not necessarily part of Judaism, and probably has more in common with Zoroastrianism and the Greek religious beliefs.

Indeed, Hell has absolutely nothing to do with Tanakh and the Hebrew religion.


*

 

[CG Didymus]

Gods word teaches by fruits one can see who the true followers are--but it also teaches--those who endure till the end will be saved---- not a single mortal knows who will endure till the end. To a mortal who cannot see future nor can read a true heart, might think that one or this one is saved--but they must endure till the end and not 1 mortal can see that. So they have no right to tell another they are saved.

That kind of blows the whole "once saved always saved" doctrine all to hell.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see all will be saved in the end.


1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Luke 3: 6 (Amp) And all mankind shall see (behold and [a]understand and at last acknowledge) the salvation of God (the deliverance from eternal death decreed by God).

Well that kind of blows the whole thing about people going to hell right out the door.