Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[CG Didymus]

It does not say ALL will be saved.


1 Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


It specifies only those that - ARE CHRIST's - AT HIS COMING.


In Luke 2:10 the only thing brought to ALL PEOPLE, is TIDINGS of great joy, not salvation.


Luke 3:6 doesn't mean all will accept, acknowledge, or be delivered from death, either.


Luke 3 talks about bad fruit being cast into the fire (3:9,) and about separating the wheat from the chaff (3:17.)


Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.



Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

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Oops, I guess I picked the wrong time to stop believing in a literal hell.

 

[CG Didymus]

Indeed, Hell has absolutely nothing to do with Tanakh and the Hebrew religion.*

Wait, there's hope for me yet. Hell wasn't part of the OT, the Original Testament of God. So come on Christians, did "God's Word" evolve? Did God evolve? Did he used to be an angry, jealous, wrathful God, but then mellowed out when he turned the reins over to his Son? He used to do "evil" I mean in a good way, to teach us and help guide us to his love. But now, he's allowing Satan to do all the dirty work, so he can say with a straight face that it wasn't him that caused kids to get shot, drown in typhoons, and get horrible diseases?

 

[Ingledsva]

Oops, I guess I picked the wrong time to stop believing in a literal hell.

I don't believe in Hell.


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[1robin]

I don't believe in Hell.


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Would it help if we did not believe in pain, taxes, or secularisms moral insanity. Would it not be better to believe in what has good reason to even if it upset our carefully crafted apple cart?

I do not remember if you knew much about evolution or not but what the heck. This is not an argument but a curiosity. How does evolution explain dreaming?

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Would it help if we did not believe in pain, taxes, or secularisms moral insanity. Would it not be better to believe in what has good reason to even if it upset our carefully crafted apple cart?

I do not remember if you knew much about evolution or not but what the heck. This is not an argument but a curiosity. How does evolution explain dreaming?

No idea, what has been found though is that other creatures dream too, at least their sleeping patterns in their brain reflect the same state as ours do when we dream.

I remember one article that pointed out that humans are not even the most prolific dreamers. It's quite amazing, though scientist are still working on why everything with a brain sleeps, the latest I heard was to flush out toxins.

 

[Ingledsva]

Would it help if we did not believe in pain, taxes, or secularisms moral insanity. Would it not be better to believe in what has good reason to even if it upset our carefully crafted apple cart?

I do not remember if you knew much about evolution or not but what the heck. This is not an argument but a curiosity. How does evolution explain dreaming?

You can throw in all the red herrings you want - and there will still be absolutely NO reasons for me to believe in Hell.


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[1robin]

You can throw in all the red herrings you want - and there will still be absolutely NO reasons for me to believe in Hell.


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How about the fact the teachings on it are contained in the same book histories greatest experts on testimony and evidence claimed to have met every standard of law and the historical method? How about the hundreds who claimed to have gone there and come back? It could be seen as self serving to claim to have gone to heaven and come back but not Hell. Those are without doubt legitimate reasons even if you considered them bad reasons. You certainly have no evidence that would allow dismissal of a concept so universally believed in.

 

[1robin]

No idea, what has been found though is that other creatures dream too, at least their sleeping patterns in their brain reflect the same state as ours do when we dream.

I remember one article that pointed out that humans are not even the most prolific dreamers. It's quite amazing, though scientist are still working on why everything with a brain sleeps, the latest I heard was to flush out toxins.

Well in the context of evolution, contrasting which species dreams the most is not very informative. The reason I asked is that I have a strange fascination in seeing how an evolutionists without theological faith will bend, guess, and stretch theories into making evolution capable of doing anything. I of course believe evolution occurred but it is certainly not capable of producing biological reality on it's own and a theory that explains everything actually explains nothing.

I can't see how dreams help survival so I was wondering why it has survived and is so prolific.

 

[Ingledsva]

How about the fact the teachings on it are contained in the same book histories greatest experts on testimony and evidence claimed to have met every standard of law and the historical method? How about the hundreds who claimed to have gone there and come back? It could be seen as self serving to claim to have gone to heaven and come back but not Hell. Those are without doubt legitimate reasons even if you considered them bad reasons. You certainly have no evidence that would allow dismissal of a concept so universally believed in.

Hell is NOT found in Tanakh - it is made up by later Christians after their contact with other religions. This has been explained to you by several people here. It has not changed - NO hell.


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[lornamason]

This was brought out many times by Atheists and agnostics, I would like to discuss it with you in a rational and respectful manner. My disclaimer is I am a true 5 point Calvinist and If that is offensive to you,You are free to close the thread now. If I may suggest , we leave out all slander against My God in the process of this discussion, slander being pre-defined as name calling as If he were real and present.Questioning scriptures depiction of God however you interpret is allowed. Example: Is God evil? Fair enough?

Here is my premise,
this is my belief based upon my scriptures.
God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die. Hard for us to fathom, granted, but True nevertheless in Scripture. If we say he did not cause it and only allowed it to happen then God would be reacting to free will of man to accomplish their own destruction, thus putting too much power in men and essentially tying God's hands. God ordained for this latest tragedy for his own purposes, we cannot know them, we are not our creator, so The bible tells us we must accept that their is a divine plan and God is in control completely.

So you have asked, where is the comfort in that? Why do religious peoples comfort families of these tragedies with this premise of a God in control? Well let me ask you Atheists would you attempt to comfort these mothers with your precept that there is no God? No heaven and no hell? That their children are reduced to dust as they came? That the man who murdered them who took his life is also Dust and there is no justice for them either? Both parties cease to exist, one guilty, one innocent, both have the same fate in the end.

Or could it be more comforting that a God in control is with their babies now, that they know no suffering,feel no pain have no more tears and the man that took their life will be punished by a Just and perfect God. Where is the evil in my premise and the lack of evil in yours? I find evil in evildoing going unpunished.I find evil in a life given for no purpose but to die and cease to exist.
What say you?

40 years ago I also believed GOD was only in control of the bad and good that happens in the world, so if something bad happened to someone beautiful and innocent then God was to blame as it’s a POWER BEYOND OUR CONTROL as something else is controlling our lives….. blah blah… bible talk and religious doctrine. To start with let me lay down a few facts. Religion was born of MAN not God.. the bible is a book that depicts the life of Christ via his followers… but lets make one thing crystal clear GOD DIDN’T WRITE THE BIBLE… MAN DID! Lets also acknowledge a actual fact that the Bible was kept hidden from humanity by the church for many years before it was published….. so who has been tinkering with the so called TRUTH? This statement is bound to annoy many BUT before you react please answer one simple question, are there more than ONE version of the Oxford English dictionary? No there isnt because if something is the TRUTH or a true version there is only ONE ……. So why are there so many versions of the Bible which are all considered the truth???

To answer the question in this thread I can say categorically without the 20 or so versions of the TRUTH all called the Biblical truth, is that GOD doesn’t kill babies, or anyone for that matter…. The truth is that WE chose our existence… this is also mirrored in terms of Jesus’ life. HE already knew his reason for his existence as did his Mother Mary. We are ALL part of the divine spark and our soul already knew our learning before we came here. So for a child to die young, please understand THEIR learning, and the lesson THEY chose as an independent soul? It may well have been their learning simply to exist long enough to give love and help their parents learn the lesson of LOSS, as before their parents reincarnated the lesson they chose was to experience the understanding of losing a loved one? That child gave those adults a gift by chosing to be the soul to teach them that lesson…… its not GOD that ends a life but the choice of the soul experiencing a learning of his/her own to the betterment of the parents they were born to who asked to learn the lesson of LOSS. The same lesson the Virgin Mary had to endure in her life through the torture and loss of her son.

GOD only creates the spark of humanity its then up to us to learn what it is to be HUMAN, from cradle to grave.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Well in the context of evolution, contrasting which species dreams the most is not very informative. The reason I asked is that I have a strange fascination in seeing how an evolutionists without theological faith will bend, guess, and stretch theories into making evolution capable of doing anything. I of course believe evolution occurred but it is certainly not capable of producing biological reality on it's own and a theory that explains everything actually explains nothing.

I can't see how dreams help survival so I was wondering why it has survived and is so prolific.

Well what you seem to be mentioning given your last part about "dreams and survival" talks more to evolution through natural selection rather than evolution itself.

As evolution is the changes in characteristics that occur when they are passed on.

While I could not how dreams help in survival, even if they did not, there would not be any reason for them to be removed from the gene pool for instance if it is in some way related to some gene.

A gene mutation that causes dreams would have neither a positive nor negative impact on the ability of an organism to pass along its genetic material to reproduce another organism. As such it would be a neutral mutation that is preserved even though it does nothing to help or hinder.

I suppose that the best way to look at it, is that evolution does not have a goal, terms like "fittest" "strong" or "weak" are subjective and at times rather misleading in explaining how the evolutionary process works. So people assume that if something is still preserved, then it must have some relation to survival. When it could just be a neutral mutation that is expressed, or it could be tied to something that is needed for survival and continues to exist not because it is useful, but what it is related to is useful. In the case of dreams it would appear to be the brain.

 

[1robin]

Well what you seem to be mentioning given your last part about "dreams and survival" talks more to evolution through natural selection rather than evolution itself.

The evolutionary process has a survival aspect within it. It is the primary selection criteria. However you may attempt an explanation from any aspect of evolution if you know of one.

As evolution is the changes in characteristics that occur when they are passed on.

While I could not how dreams help in survival, even if they did not, there would not be any reason for them to be removed from the gene pool for instance if it is in some way related to some gene.

A gene mutation that causes dreams would have neither a positive nor negative impact on the ability of an organism to pass along its genetic material to reproduce another organism. As such it would be a neutral mutation that is preserved even though it does nothing to help or hinder.

I suppose that the best way to look at it, is that evolution does not have a goal, terms like "fittest" "strong" or "weak" are subjective and at times rather misleading in explaining how the evolutionary process works. So people assume that if something is still preserved, then it must have some relation to survival. When it could just be a neutral mutation that is expressed, or it could be tied to something that is needed for survival and continues to exist not because it is useful, but what it is related to is useful. In the case of dreams it would appear to be the brain.

So IOW evolution and dreaming would be coincidental. It was not important. I just get tickled at the intellectual gymnastics used to make sure evolution is omnipotent by some. You did a pretty reasonable job of answering my question as best as can be done.

 

[idav]

So IOW evolution and dreaming would be coincidental. It was not important.

Without a design element then most anything in evolution is coincidence, not meant to be per se. If humans managed to end up with wings it would have been a coincidence although many would advocate that God wanted us to have wings so he designed it that way, just like people do to explain why we see in color and have opposable thumbs and such. Either coincidence or design.

People like to think that just cause we are here means that this place was designed for us. Well it certainly wasn't designed for us since the beginning, only recently has it gotten better for humans, we just happened to survive the elements which weren't really suited for us to begin with. Humans are the only animals that have managed to survive ALL the elements earth has to throw at us so it wasn't fine tuned for us, it is quite a struggle and more so for other animals.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The evolutionary process has a survival aspect within it. It is the primary selection criteria. However you may attempt an explanation from any aspect of evolution if you know of one.

So IOW evolution and dreaming would be coincidental. It was not important. I just get tickled at the intellectual gymnastics used to make sure evolution is omnipotent by some. You did a pretty reasonable job of answering my question as best as can be done.

I certainly don't think evolution is omnipotent, there are several "flaws" in our and other animals designs.

I don't think my explanation does the study of neuroscience and evolution any justice, I think Legion might have a more far reaching understanding than I do.

 

[1robin]

Hell is NOT found in Tanakh - it is made up by later Christians after their contact with other religions. This has been explained to you by several people here. It has not changed - NO hell.


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1. Hell does exist in the OT but is called sheol which can mean the grave, the domain of the dead, and hell.

2. It was not made up by Christians after contact with anyone but Christ. If there was anything guaranteed to fail in 1st century Israel, it was the borrowing from another faiths claims. That was instantly rooted out.

3. The only thing close to what you claimed is something I would agree with. The Catholics turned Sheol or Hell into a carnival of horrors so as to scare people into Church. I think hell whatever it is now will be eternal non-existence after the judgment. In whatever form it has exist long before Christianity in Judaism.


However this is not all that interesting. I picked on you about your preference determining your truth because I was bored at the time. I am currently very busy and this is a side issue at best.

 

[Ingledsva]

Hell is NOT found in Tanakh - it is made up by later Christians after their contact with other religions. This has been explained to you by several people here. It has not changed - NO hell.

1. Hell does exist in the OT but is called sheol which can mean the grave, the domain of the dead, and hell.


Sheol IS the domain of the dead - it is NOT hell.


2. It was not made up by Christians after contact with anyone but Christ. If there was anything guaranteed to fail in 1st century Israel, it was the borrowing from another faiths claims. That was instantly rooted out.


Baloney, it was written in long after his death.


3. The only thing close to what you claimed is something I would agree with. The Catholics turned Sheol or Hell into a carnival of horrors so as to scare people into Church. I think hell whatever it is now will be eternal non-existence after the judgment. In whatever form it has exist long before Christianity in Judaism.


I also believe it says total annihilation/non-existence, however, still no Hell.


However this is not all that interesting. I picked on you about your preference determining your truth because I was bored at the time. I am currently very busy and this is a side issue at best.

My "preference" does not determine "truth" when discussing what Religious texts "say". Translating them determines what I write concerning them.


Jesus was Jewish and they didn't believe in Hell. In NONE of the Bible quotes supposedly from Jesus - did he ever use the word Hell.


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[CG Didymus]

My "preference" does not determine "truth" when discussing what Religious texts "say". Translating them determines what I write concerning them.


Jesus was Jewish and they didn't believe in Hell. In NONE of the Bible quotes supposedly from Jesus - did he ever use the word Hell.


*

I looked at a few Jewish websites and so far all of them agree with you.

 

[psychoslice]

Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?........yes your god is evil, because he is man made, and concept of god will never be that which IS, or that which you call God.

 

[Benoni]

Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?........yes your god is evil, because he is man made, and concept of god will never be that which IS, or that which you call God.

God makes all people die. Its called the curses of Adam.

Is this going to stop death because you are angry with God?

Or purhaps you are angry with religion; will this stop death?

To you death is the end. To God death is a process

 

[Benoni]

To me looking for the answers of why God cursed man with death is more important then being angry at something that will happen to all of us. I see death as two fold.

Spiritual death and Physical death. Spiritual death is the worst of the two.