Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[Nakosis]

Something I've always been curious about. Why do Christians who survive a bad storm or tornado thank god for sparing them? What about the ones who don't survive.......are they not worthy of his saving grace.

And.......why did he put a tornado on them to begin with?

When an athlete scores and immediately prays or a boxer signs himself....what makes them believe god will help them in a sports event while nearly a billion humans in the world are starving or suffering from mal nutrition. An estimated 12,000 children starve to death in this world each day.

When is god(and the ultra wealthy churches) going to take some blame instead of just the credit?

People just realize a lot of circumstances in life is beyond their control. So you do the best you can and hope/pray that all of those things beyond your control will work out in your favor.

Gives some a williness to try even though there is no logical reason they should succeed.

 

[Will Campbell]

People just realize a lot of circumstances in life is beyond their control. So you do the best you can and hope/pray that all of those things beyond your control will work out in your favor.

Gives some a williness to try even though there is no logical reason they should succeed.

In other words folks who embrace religion need a crutch....is that about it?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Ergo, evil does not exist. Suppose that two criminals killed a child.

Who decided that that child's life needed to be taken?

?

I think you are pretty safe. i cannot imagine you will convince a lot of people to worship a God that can give you pancreatic cancer for winning a couple of souls.

Well for the billions of Christians that are already saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, I doubt they would turn from the faith if God told them DIRECTLY why he is inflicting them with such an ailment.

 

[Will Campbell]

?



Well for the billions of Christians that are already saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, I doubt they would turn from the faith if God told them DIRECTLY why he is inflicting them with such an ailment.

What about the hundreds of billions who are burning in hell?


Matthew 7:

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



Matthew 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


James 2:

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



Revelation 21:

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[Nakosis]

In other words folks who embrace religion need a crutch....is that about it?

I suspect everyone needs a crutch. A person has to face a lot of unknowns in life.
Jesus is a big crutch, kind of obvious isn't it? I don't see any particular reason to take a person crutch away. If they need it they need it. If they don't they figure that out eventually.

 

[viole]

Well for the billions of Christians that are already saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, I doubt they would turn from the faith if God told them DIRECTLY why he is inflicting them with such an ailment.

Well, I cannot imagine a Christian or anybody else leaving the faith when she hears directly the voice of God.

I was actually addressing the yet-to-be Christians, who are probably not Christians yet because they did not hear any divine voice: only what you write on this forum, risking thereby pancreatic cancer for yourself, lol.

Let's make a little Gedanken experiment. Suppose that someone very close to you gets pancreatic cancer and confirms that it is because God told Him so.

Would you just sit there and believe him, or would you send him to the next doctor?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I believe Shrek and the donkey will save us. Yeah, yeah, I'm a believer.

Shrek is love... Shrek is life.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Well, I cannot imagine a Christian or anybody else leaving the faith when she hears directly the voice of God.

Exactly.

I was actually addressing the yet-to-be Christians, who are probably not Christians yet because they did not hear any divine voice: only what you write on this forum, risking thereby pancreatic cancer for yourself, lol.

Ok.

Let's make a little Gedanken experiment. Suppose that someone very close to you gets pancreatic cancer and confirms that it is because God told Him so.

Would you just sit there and believe him, or would you send him to the next doctor?

I actually had a very religious Auntie that passed away from PC (RIP Auntie Pam ). Now suppose before she died she told me that the Lord appeared to her in a vision/dream and told her that the Lord struck her with this ailment to carry out out greater good X. Or better yet, supposed the Lord told ME that I will get PC cancer, and this is to carry out a greater good X. Now, if the LORD told me this DIRECTLY, why on earth will I continue to feel bad and miserable about my ailment??? I just got assurance from the ALMIGHTY that it is part of his divine plan.

It is a no-brainer, to me.

 

[Will Campbell]

Exactly.



Ok.

I actually had a very religious Auntie that passed away from PC (RIP Auntie Pam ). Now suppose before she died she told me that the Lord appeared to her in a vision/dream and told her that the Lord struck her with this ailment to carry out out greater good X. Or better yet, supposed the Lord told ME that I will get PC cancer, and this is to carry out a greater good X. Now, if the LORD told me this DIRECTLY, why on earth will I continue to feel bad and miserable about my ailment??? I just got assurance from the ALMIGHTY that it is part of his divine plan.
It is a no-brainer, to me.

I know folks can't help it because of their brainwashing into the ancient god thing but prayer is unadulterated crap. I know it is because of what I witnessed from my youngest memories. When I was born in 1934 the average life expectancy of a White male in the United States was 61. If someone survived their first heart attack they would mope around essentially
incapcitated for a couple of years then die. Cancer was a death sentence. The only treatment was surgery and over half the time the tumor metasticised and spread all through the body and usually they lasted a year after that at the most.
Wednesday evening prayer meetings all over this country were crowded and prayer lists were a foot long. Every family either had a member or a close friend who was sick or dying. People prayed till their knees were bloody and the aflicted suffered and died anyway. Either the almighty supreme being didn't answer the prayers or he doesn't give a damn.

Now the average life expectency of a White male at birth is 78. Thanks to the spin offs from the moon landing in the late 60's we have sophisticated diagnostic systems, MRI, CTscans, ultrasound, endoscopy, colonoscopy, heart catherization procedures, stents, bypasses, transplants, stem cell technology, chemo, radiation and limited invasive surgical procedures which produce much lower mortality statistics. The foolish prayer bunch think god is watching out for them. What about the millions upon millions who died or suffered unmercifully before all this technology and research came about through
countless months and years of human dedication and effort..the ones who regardless of the dedication of those who
prayed...suffered and died.

A few weeks ago one of my high school classmates about 79 years old actually ask all of us to pray for positive results for an abdominal ultrasound and colonoscopy she had scheduled. Turned out she had indigestion.

 

[viole]

I actually had a very religious Auntie that passed away from PC (RIP Auntie Pam ). Now suppose before she died she told me that the Lord appeared to her in a vision/dream and told her that the Lord struck her with this ailment to carry out out greater good X. Or better yet, supposed the Lord told ME that I will get PC cancer, and this is to carry out a greater good X. Now, if the LORD told me this DIRECTLY, why on earth will I continue to feel bad and miserable about my ailment??? I just got assurance from the ALMIGHTY that it is part of his divine plan.

And what kind of divine plan contemplates pancreatic cancer?

I would ask God: why not a sudden stroke instead?

It is a no-brainer, to me.

It is.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

And what kind of divine plan contemplates pancreatic cancer?

I would ask God: why not a sudden stroke instead?

Because maybe the only way the plan could have been accomplished was from pancreatic cancer, and if there was a "better" way it could have been done, then certainly God would have known about it before you or I.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Because maybe the only way the plan could have been accomplished was from pancreatic cancer, and if there was a "better" way it could have been done, then certainly God would have known about it before you or I.

Or he could have not created cancer to begin with.

 

[viole]

Because maybe the only way the plan could have been accomplished was from pancreatic cancer, and if there was a "better" way it could have been done, then certainly God would have known about it before you or I.

Ok, but then I have to ask you the question.

Suppose that God gave cancer to someone you love and completely depends on you and your decisions, but only told you DIRECTLY that this is part of the divine plan.

Will you sing Hallelujah, or will you call a doctor?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Or he could have not created cancer to begin with.

There are numerous times throughout the bible that God allowed suffering for the greater good, and while this is not always the case, my point is, it COULD be the case.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Ok, but then I have to ask you the question.

Suppose that God gave cancer to someone you love and completely depends on you and your decisions, but only told you DIRECTLY that this is part of the divine plan.

Will you sing Hallelujah, or will you call a doctor?

Not sure I understand the question. Can you rephrase it?

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

There are numerous times throughout the bible that God allowed suffering for the greater good, and while this is not always the case, my point is, it COULD be the case.

I'm not sure of any scenario where someone being slowly and painfully eaten away by an incurable disease, could be considered to have been "for the greater good," but if you find one, please feel free to let me know. Also, what if it is not for the greater good? (which you said is possible.) Then what of God? Would he really be the loving, benevolent being that the Christianity makes him out to be? If not, would you be willing to worship a being that intentionally inflicts pain and suffering on others simply because he can?

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm not sure of any scenario where someone being slowly and painfully eaten away by an incurable disease, could be considered to have been "for the greater good," but if you find one, please feel free to let me know. Also, what if it is not for the greater good? (which you said is possible.) Then what of God? Would he really be the loving, benevolent being that the Christianity makes him out to be? If not, would you be willing to worship a being that intentionally inflicts pain and suffering on others simply because he can?

Doesn't it seem like people, for the most part, are struggling to move us toward a greater good? And, sometimes, it means moving away from traditional religious beliefs. The struggle then, for the different religions, is to find a way to prove their relevance and/or justify their existence.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because maybe the only way the plan could have been accomplished was from pancreatic cancer, and if there was a "better" way it could have been done, then certainly God would have known about it before you or I.

So much for God's omnipotence, eh?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

I'm not sure of any scenario where someone being slowly and painfully eaten away by an incurable disease, could be considered to have been "for the greater good," but if you find one, please feel free to let me know.

Ok so suppose God allowed a man to be slowly and painfully eaten away by an incurable disease. Seems kinda harsh, right? But suppose this person was a serial killer that kidnapped women, raped them, and killed them...and NO ONE knew about his crimes but God..and suppose God is using this disease as an act of JUDGEMENT upon the man for his abominations?

On Christian theism, God is in sovereign control of EVERYTHING. Every action he takes, or lack of action is all part of a meticulous and calculated plan. And it is fallacious to think that just because you in your limited knowledge don't know why X happens or why X doesn't happen, doesn't mean there is no morally sufficient reason why it is happening.

Also, what if it is not for the greater good? (which you said is possible.) Then what of God? Would he really be the loving, benevolent being that the Christianity makes him out to be? If not, would you be willing to worship a being that intentionally inflicts pain and suffering on others simply because he can?

On Christian theism, God has morally sufficient reasons for allowing anything that he allows.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Ok so suppose God allowed a man to be slowly and painfully eaten away by an incurable disease. Seems kinda harsh, right? But suppose this person was a serial killer that kidnapped women, raped them, and killed them...and NO ONE knew about his crimes but God..and suppose God is using this disease as an act of JUDGEMENT upon the man for his abominations?

Or he could have just killed him painlessly before he even decided to kill, which would have not only saved him the suffering, but saved the lives of those whom he was going to kill in the future. Also, what about the good people who suffer from said disease? They exist, and you know it.

On Christian theism, God is in sovereign control of EVERYTHING. Every action he takes, or lack of action is all part of a meticulous and calculated plan. And it is fallacious to think that just because you in your limited knowledge don't know why X happens or why X doesn't happen, doesn't mean there is no morally sufficient reason why it is happening.

If our knowledge of God's plan is so limited, then how do you know that it is a "meticulous and calculated plan?" How do you know that he is not doing these things out of sheer cruelty? After all, our knowledge is limited, right?

On Christian theism, God has morally sufficient reasons for allowing anything that he allows.

And what reasons are those? In what demented world is it "morally sufficient" to send bears to maul 42 children to death? (2 Kings 2:23–24) Or to provide blessings to those who "dash the heads of infants against the rocks?" (Psalm 137:9) If the Christian god were a human, we'd have him on trial for crimes against humanity, yet they continue to worship him as this gentle bearded sky man who loves everyone, and is always happy and full of sunshine and rainbows.

Let me ask you, hypothetically speaking, if you had the same powers in which your god had, would you strike people down with cancer? Would you bless those who kill infidel children? Would you send bears to maul 42 kids to death? If not, why on earth would you worship someone who does?