Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[JM2C]

Did Greek and Persian religions, mixed with Judaism, create Christianity?

Not at all. The Christianity that I know, that I believed in, believed only in ONE God. There are some groups and they call themselves Christians but they mixed their beliefs with idols, this I do not think they are Christians at all. Some Christians mixed with the Law of Moses are not Christians at all.

 

[JM2C]

Dying and rising gods,

Not from Christianity that I know. My God does not die.

 

[JM2C]

virgin births,

Yes! From Christianity written and documented from the LXX/OG and N.T. which the Jews had been denying ever since. Read Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23

I was reading a thread about this and one of the debaters, I think the name is nonconformist, has a good argument about it.

 

[JM2C]

devils and hell?

Yes, they are in the bible and the Jews are very familiar with these.

 

[JM2C]

The Jews tell me those things didn't come from them.

Which one??

This one?

Plus he forgets that the Hebrew also followed multiple Gods and Goddesses.

 

[JM2C]

Plus he forgets that the Hebrew also followed multiple Gods and Goddesses.

Yes, before and after God took them out of Egypt/Mizraim.

Do you know where Mizraim came from?

 

[JM2C]

The Bible tells us that they kept turning back to them over and over.

Jer 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
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I think the right word for that is “idolatry”

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Ex 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Ex 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[JM2C]

I do not think any of those "gods" are the "one true god" either. If I did, then I would be following them... which I'm not.

“I would be following them” “Them” as in plural.

How many gods do you have right now?

You are confusing me. You said “Yes, I'm a Deist, I believe there is a Deity” but here you are willing to follow any gods that will accommodate your needs.

Can you explain more about your belief.

 

[JM2C]

Egyptian polytheism was invented around 4000 B.C. and existed long before the "god of Abraham Isaac and Jacob" was invented by Abraham in 1800 B.C. (or possibly by Moses around 1400 B.C.)

The ten commandments were nothing more than a fabrication from the mind of Moses, passed off as "divine revelation."

Let us clear the timeline here for a better understanding. I am debating here from the bible and not from hearsays, or theories, or from unknown source. Now, long before Egypt was Mizraim, and before Mizraim was Ham, and before Ham was Noah, and from Noah going back all the way to Seth, who was the son of Adam and these are according to the bible that I am debating with you people.

From your gods/minds all these are nothing but fabrications or came from the mind Moses. But the thing is, where are your proofs of written and documented about your gods like the one that I have, you know the Bible?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing here. Nothing!

 

[JM2C]

You know how old is my religion?

Jn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Yeah, that is how old my religion is.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Let us clear the timeline here for a better understanding. I am debating here from the bible and not from hearsays, or theories, or from unknown source.

Everything in the Bible is also hearsay as well... unless you were alive 6,000 or so years ago to witness it all... which I'm assuming you're not.

Now, long before Egypt was Mizraim, and before Mizraim was Ham, and before Ham was Noah, and from Noah going back all the way to Seth, who was the son of Adam and these are according to the bible that I am debating with you people.

Also hearsay... you weren't there.

From your gods/minds all these are nothing but fabrications or came from the mind Moses. But the thing is, where are your proofs of written and documented about your gods like the one that I have, you know the Bible?

Jews: The Torah
Muslims: The Quran
Hindus: The Bhagavad Gita
Mormons: The Book of Mormon
Zoroastrians: The Avesta
Egyptian Polytheism: The Book of the Dead.

I could go on and on...

This is basic knowledge friend. Did you really think that other religions didn't have holy books to back up what they believe too? The question I have is... what makes yours any more special? There's no evidence whatsoever of hardly anything that happened in the bible. There is no evidence of a mass exodus of the Jews, or a talking snake, or a global flood, or frogs falling from the sky, or water turning to blood, or that flaming bushes can speak, or that the Ten Commandments came from God's finger reaching out from outer space. None...zero... zip.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing here. Nothing!

Except that I wasn't thinking that. Let's not go around "bearing false witnesses" now.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

You know how old is my religion?

Jn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Yeah, that is how old my religion is.

Incorrect. Religions started to emerge during the Paleolithic era around 30,000 years ago, indicated by the figurines found from that era that represent the different gods and goddesses that they worshiped (particularly female goddesses) along with evidence of human sacrifices. They also buried their dead with their possessions, which implies that they could have possibly held a belief in an afterlife of sorts.

 

[CG Didymus]

Not at all. The Christianity that I know, that I believed in, believed only in ONE God. There are some groups and they call themselves Christians but they mixed their beliefs with idols, this I do not think they are Christians at all. Some Christians mixed with the Law of Moses are not Christians at all.

Okay, let me get this straight, the Hebrew Bible is the Word of God. The Laws in there, are the Laws of God. When he said do things, like keep the Sabbath forever or all your generations, I would imagine a believer in the Bible would obey that command. But, most Christians don't. But don't all Christians mix some of the commands of the Hebrew Bible?

 

[CG Didymus]

Not from Christianity that I know. My God does not die.

Some Christians believe Jesus is God... and he died? Are they wrong?

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes! From Christianity written and documented from the LXX/OG and N.T. which the Jews had been denying ever since. Read Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23

I was reading a thread about this and one of the debaters, I think the name is nonconformist, has a good argument about it.

Yes, I had a thread about it too. I asked if Matthew had taken Isaiah out of context. It was not surprising that most Christians said "No". Most everybody else, including the Jews that new the passage in Hebrew, said "Yes".

 

[CG Didymus]

Whether the Christian concepts of a devil and hell came from Judaism or came from Greek and/or Persian religions?

Yes, they are in the bible and the Jews are very familiar with these.

I said

The Jews tell me those things didn't come from them.

You said

Which one??

Here's a couple of sites. The first one talks about Hell:

The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.
Put yourself in your socks’ shoes, so to speak. If you were to be thrown into boiling hot water and flung around for half an hour, you might start to feel that someone doesn’t like you. However, the fact is that it is only after going through a wash cycle that the socks can be worn again.
We don’t put our socks in the washing machine to punish them. We put them through what seems like a rough and painful procedure only to make them clean and wearable again. The intense heat of the water loosens the dirt, and the force of being swirled around shakes it off completely. Far from hurting your socks, you are doing them a favor by putting them through this process.

The second one about The Satan:

Now, of course, the Hebrew Scriptures tell of a character called The Satan. Every time the term is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, it reads, HaSaTaN, which means THE Satan. When the definite article, 'the,' is in front of a word it indicates a title, like 'the rabbi,' or 'the reverend.' So, in the Bible, the term 'HaSatan,' which means, 'The Satan,' is a title. The one with that title has a specific job, the same way it is used in speaking of 'the rabbi,' or of 'the reverend.'
The concept of The Satan, or the job description, is radically different from that of the devil. For Christians, who erroneously use the two terms as if they are synonymous, the devil has power and authority in and of himself. However, in the Bible, The Satan only has power granted by Gd, and has no authority in and of himself. For the devil to have power and authority is to have more than one Gd, as we saw above concerning the Greeks and the Romans.
The Satan is described in only a few places in the Hebrew Scriptures. In every instance, he is an angel who works FOR Gd, not against Gd, and must get permission from Gd for everything that he does. Chronicles, Job, Psalms, and Zechariah are the only places where The Satan is mentioned. In each instance, the job description of The Satan is to act like what we now call a Prosecuting Attorney, or District Attorney, and accuse and show evidence against the defendant. Furthermore, like a D.A., The Satan must obtain permission from Gd, the Judge, to begin a sting operation.

How does this coincide with how Christianity describes them? That's where some of us feel Christians borrowed concepts from other religions and added them to Jewish ideas. Where do you think the Christian concepts came from?

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes! From Christianity written and documented from the LXX/OG and N.T. which the Jews had been denying ever since. Read Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23

I was reading a thread about this and one of the debaters, I think the name is nonconformist, has a good argument about it.

Isaiah 7:14 is about Isaiah and his son Immanuel and the war against Jerusalem.

He was told to go into the Temple Prophetess/virgin, - she conceived, - bore him a son - Immanuel.

The whole text is set in one time period.

It starts with King Rezin, ends with King Rezin, and tells us this is about the war over Jerusalem!!!

Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.


In later verses such as 9:11 (after the so called "virgin" verses) it is still talking about Rezin.

Isa 9:11 And YHVH will set up Rezin's foes against him, and join together his enemies;


As for Matthew - it was written after 70 AD by an anonymous person.

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[1robin]

Well... The title of this thread is "Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?" I would assume it is aimed at the OP.

The statements were aimed at a person not a topic. They pertained to a topic but used personal addresses like "your".

 

[1robin]

Call of the Wild claimed exactly that - as have other Christians here.



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I do not believe so from what I read but they are encouraged to state for themselves if they in fact have adopted all those conflicting positions you and others illustrated. Any one might simply be wrong or right but the whole constitutes an incoherency that can't be true so I doubt anyone would hold such a position, though some might hold to one or two facets of it. Until Call of the wild personally states they accept them all my position is that they do not, and my position is certainly that almost no Christian does. I have several first hand experiences with exactly what was being discussed.

 

[CG Didymus]

...I am debating here from the bible...

Good. The Bible says that God did a bunch of horrible things. Is he evil? He allowed a young man to shoot up a grammar school which got this thread started. Should God, could God have prevented that?

Probably not all those kids were Christians. Did they all go to heaven, because they were under the age of "accountability"? Oh yes, where in the Bible does it say there is an age where kids get a free pass into heaven? Oh, and what happens when the killer is under the age of accountability?

Oh, and one more thing, thanks for picking up for 1Robin. I guess he's been busy lately. This thread hasn't been the same without him, that is, until you came along. Oh wait, he's back.