Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[JM2C]

Exactly. That's why your "hybrid Christian" vs "true Christian" theory is a bit bizarre to us.

Theory? I have a basis for this facts and that is the bible. Your analysis is nothing but theory, no basis at all. You can’t draw any conclusion from your theory because you don’t have anything to base it on, no premise at all. You are just like mestemia arguing from ignorance. Trapping me with words like “no true Scotsman fallacy”. Follow your premise and you will never get lost. Trapping a bear with a rabbit trap?

BTW. The word “ignorance” is not an insult, it means no knowledge or just of lack knowledge and by no means an insult to anyone.

Read and understand again the difference between the true Christian and the semi-hybrid Christian until you are blue in the face and maybe you will understand the diff.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Theory? I have a basis for this facts and that is the bible. Your analysis is nothing but theory, no basis at all. You can’t draw any conclusion from your theory because you don’t have anything to base it on, no premise at all. You are just like mestemia arguing from ignorance. Trapping me with words like “no true Scotsman fallacy”. Follow your premise and you will never get lost. Trapping a bear with a rabbit trap?

BTW. The word “ignorance” is not an insult, it means no knowledge or just of lack knowledge and by no means an insult to anyone.

Read and understand again the difference between the true Christian and the semi-hybrid Christian until you are blue in the face and maybe you will understand the diff.

Ignorance? Really? I literally just gave you a real world example in my previous post. Or did you even bother to read the whole thing? P.S. I'm sorry that you are so troubled by the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Logic tends to have that effect on religious fundamentalists.

 

[McBell]

A vehicle that runs in petrol only is consider a “Vehicle” only and nothing else. Now, if you combine this “Vehicle” with “hydrogen generator” then it will become a “Semi-hybrid Vehicle” meaning it no longer runs in petrol only but with “hydrogen generator”.

What is a semi-hybrid Christian?

What is justification by faith alone?

Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

As a Gentile, I became a Christian by faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ “without the deeds of the law”. IOW, if I follow the Law of Moses after I was justified by faith alone then I become a “semi-hybrid Christian” or if I mix faith with any other traditions of men or doctrines invented by human mind then I become a “semi-hybrid Christian” IOW again, there is a True Christian and the semi-hybrid Christian.

What is a true Christian? A true Christian is very subjective and yet by means of doctrines, that is base in the bible and not by human traditions, it can be very objective.

IOW, by means of doctrines written in the bible, that a true Christian should follow, one can define a true Christian church from a semi-hybrid Christian church.

This person ask me about the gift of God.

Human are mortal meaning we have to die. A gift from God after death as a Christian is another life with God forever or immortal life. Once you are with God already your concerns here does not matter anymore.

And you sarcastically responded with

And this was my answer and they are rightly related to your question.

Not really!

What I meant by “As a Christian death is a gift from God.” is the fear of death. Fear is an inhibiting and enslaving thing; and when people are gripped by the ultimate fear--the fear of death--they are in cruel bondage. Christ set us, Christians, free from the fear of death when he defeated satan on the cross.

Heb 2:14 Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—Jesus also became flesh and blood by being born in human form. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the Devil, who had the power of death.
Heb 2:15 Only in this way could he deliver those who have lived all their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.

I think you have a very big misconception of the word or the name “Christian”
You think Christians are more on politics than religion. Well, perhaps you should read more about the history of Christianity.

True Christians are different from other semi-Christians or semi-hybrid Christians.

And responded again with more intense of sarcasm,

I was just following your premise with my conclusion which is completely related to your post or question.

Your no true Scotsman fallacy is a non sequitur. It does not relate nor follow in any way to my premise which you concluded with own ignorance about what a true Christian is all about, and that is, “Your No True Scotsman” conclusion. You read the word “true” and then applied the the “no true Scotsman” without even knowing why are you using it in the first place.

You cannot apply your no true Scotsman fallacy to something you have no knowledge about. True Christianity is something a true Christian only have the knowledge about because we have a basis for this knowledge and that is, the bible, which you have no knowledge at all, and by forcing yourself to answer such things you have knowledge at all makes you an ignorance of this matter. That was the reason I said, “Well, perhaps you should read more about the history of Christianity.”

It is harder to conceal ignorance than to acquire knowledge.

They gave you those three medals for being ignorant? edit that was a ? instead of a .

Read the bible before you argue.

The problem here is that you are not addressing the points I brought, but attacking strawmen instead.

Then you throw in some personal attacks.

Now since you have clearly shown you are not the least bit interested in honest discussion...

 

[CG Didymus]

Originally Posted by JM2C
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

God was talking about Lucifer or the devil or Satan here.

Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Then I asked:

Ezekiel 28:12 says it is about the King of Tyre. If it was about The Satan why wouldn't have God told Ezekiel to say The Satan. Did Jews, reading Hebrew, understand it was The Satan? Has any Jew ever said that quote you gave refers to The Satan? And then, you say Lucifer? How do you say that in Hebrew? Where did that word even come from? What language is that? How would you say Lucifer in English?

Hello, you never answered this question. Which doesn't make you look stupid, but something worse, a question avoider. IMO, Christians have manipulated several verses from the Hebrew Scriptures to "prove" their belief in their version of Satan. So tell me, where did the word "lucifer" come from? Is it in the Hebrew or the Greek versions of the Bible?

 

[CG Didymus]

Your pride really is your problem...

That's the least of my problems. I'm actually quite humble. But the OP is asking if God is evil. With all the things attributed to him, it would appear so. Why did he put a temptation in front of Adam and Eve and put a tempter in the garden to deceive them? It's either meant to be metaphorical or meant to be absolutely true.

If you believe it's absolutely true, then how do you not believe God is evil? He knew what would happen, let it happen, then blames Adam and Eve for doing it. Later, he's surprised that the world is filled with evil? So he floods it? Did he get rid of evil? No, then why did he kill all those people and animals? If that's not evil, then it's at the very least not very nice.

Oh, and about blaspheming God? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't do the same thing to other people's God's and other religions interpretation of the so-called "One and Only God."

 

[CG Didymus]

If you believe enough, you will create the perception of this God.

Seems a fairly straight forward response.

So either you didn't believe enough or you've came to doubt the reliability of your perception.

Excellent point. I've "believed" in a few different religions. They were all true while I was believing, and all seemed ridiculous once I quit believing. I think they work because of the placebo effect of wanting them to be true.

 

[JM2C]

Do you know what “Plagiarism” is?

Allow me to give an example of what a Plagiarist is.

Spermologos is a Greek word for a babbler.

A babbler is a crow, or some other bird, picking up seeds. Then it seems to have been used of a man accustomed to hang about the streets, and markets, picking up scraps which fall from loads; hence a parasite, who lives at the expense of others, a hanger on.

Metaphorically it became used of a man who picks us scraps of information and retails them secondhand, a “PLAGIARIST“, or of those who make a show, in unscientific style, of knowledge obtained from misunderstanding lectures. -Vines

They have these scraps of limited/copied information that they kept in a box, once gone or empty, they stop, unlike the unlimited source of truth from the bible that can never be exhausted.

That is the reason why we, the TRUE CHRISTIANS, have the bible, the source of the way, the life, and the truth about the inexhaustible will of the eternal God.

You know why the Greeks called Paul a babbler/spermologos when he went to Athens?

The Greeks thought Paul was just a babbler of limited information about the resurrected Christ, -no foundation at all- but it turned out, them Greeks, the philosophers of the Epicureans, and the Stoics, were the babblers instead about the resurrected Christ. Like the Pharisees, those Greeks don’t have any ideas about the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. -B.A.

Faith is a device of self-delusion, a sleight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up. Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes.

When you quote this beautiful words from Chainfire: Chapter 48, page 489, did you forget to give credit to Mr. Terry Goodkind or you thought you could get away with it without someone noticing it.

Note: If you happen to be the Mr. Terry Goodkind himself please accept my apologies.

Please go to this site. Lessons From Fantasy: Faith is a device of self-delusion...

Terry Goodkind is an American writer and author of the epic fantasy The Sword of Truth series as well as the contemporary suspense novel The Law of Nines, which has ties to his fantasy series, and The Omen Machine, which is a direct sequel thereof. Before his success as an author, Goodkind worked primarily as a painter, as well as doing carpentry and woodworking. -Wiki

According to this Mr. Terry Goodkind is not an agnostic, atheist nor belongs to any cults, religions, or anything at all, for the simple that he makes a living writing fantasy books that caters to everyone. He could be an Objectivist.

I wonder where agnostics getting their tenet? From a fastasy books perhaps

 

[JM2C]

The problem here is that you are not addressing the points I brought, but attacking strawmen instead.
Then you throw in some personal attacks.
Now since you have clearly shown you are not the least bit interested in honest discussion...

Every time you agnostics, atheist see the word “TRUE” you guys jump like a bunch of hyenas to a helpless dead animal with your “No True Scotsman Fallacy” argument. You were snared with your own trap man.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Every time you agnostics, atheist see the word “TRUE” you guys jump like a bunch of hyenas to a helpless dead animal with your “No True Scotsman Fallacy” argument. You were snared with your own trap man.

It's not our fault that you fail to understand the logical fallacies you are using. We're simply pointing them out.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I wonder where agnostics getting their tenet? From a fastasy books perhaps

The irony here is absolutely painful to look at.

 

[JM2C]

It's not our fault that you fail to understand the logical fallacies you are using. We're simply pointing them out.

You still not getting it. Mestemia introduce that fallacy without any basis at all. I did not use any logical fallacies at all because I have a basis for my claim.

Your “No true Scotsman fallacy” did not follow the premise it was asked to do and that is the reason why it was called “No true Scotsman fallacy” but my conclusion “True Christian” came from the example I gave you about the “True Christians” and the “semi-hybrid Christian” If you follow my premise you will end with the same conclusion, as simple as that. Your “no true Scotsman fallacy” is a non sequitur. it’s a way agnostics and atheist and all those isms and tics were using to confuse an argument with True Christians. Where is the strawman he was talking about? My answers to your posts came from your own post or I have to base my answer to your question and I did that all the time, except for a few.

 

[1robin]

If you believe enough, you will create the perception of this God.

Seems a fairly straight forward response.

So either you didn't believe enough or you've came to doubt the reliability of your perception.

None of this even hints that genuine faith does not exist, which is the more effectual claim.

 

[1robin]

Exactly. That's why your "hybrid Christian" vs "true Christian" theory is a bit bizarre to us. Each branch of Christianity thinks it is the "true" form of Christianity, while thinking that the other branches are the "hybrids," if you will.

All of these human traditions that you speak of come from different interpretations of the same book, with particular emphasis on certain verses, depending on which dogma the Christian chooses to accept.

For example, the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches use this verse to justify their belief in both faith and works: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."~ James 2:24(KJV)

While Protestants use this verse to justify their belief in faith alone: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."~ Ephesians 2:8-9(KJV)

To me this is nothing more than a contradiction from a fallible book, but quite frankly that's for another thread. But as for Christians, they choose which one of these two to emphasize based the dogmas of their specific branch of Christianity.

Some of your scriptures do not say what makes a Christian a Christian. James gives a generalized outline of what is true of one. If you want to know what one is then try these verses:
3 1-2 There was a man of the Pharisee sect, Nicodemus, a prominent leader among the Jews. Late one night he visited Jesus and said, “Rabbi, we all know you’re a teacher straight from God. No one could do all the God-pointing, God-revealing acts you do if God weren’t in on it.”

3 Jesus said, “You’re absolutely right. Take it from me: Unless a person is born from above, it’s not possible to see what I’m pointing to—to God’s kingdom.”

4 “How can anyone,” said Nicodemus, “be born who has already been born and grown up? You can’t re-enter your mother’s womb and be born again. What are you saying with this ‘born-from-above’ talk?”

5-6 Jesus said, “You’re not listening. Let me say it again. Unless a person submits to this original creation—the ‘wind-hovering-over-the-water’ creation, the invisible moving the visible, a baptism into a new life—it’s not possible to enter God’s kingdom. When you look at a baby, it’s just that: a body you can look at and touch. But the person who takes shape within is formed by something you can’t see and touch—the Spirit—and becomes a living spirit.

7-8 “So don’t be so surprised when I tell you that you have to be ‘born from above’—out of this world, so to speak. You know well enough how the wind blows this way and that. You hear it rustling through the trees, but you have no idea where it comes from or where it’s headed next. That’s the way it is with everyone ‘born from above’ by the wind of God, the Spirit of God.”

9 Nicodemus asked, “What do you mean by this? How does this happen?”

10-12 Jesus said, “You’re a respected teacher of Israel and you don’t know these basics? Listen carefully. I’m speaking sober truth to you. I speak only of what I know by experience; I give witness only to what I have seen with my own eyes. There is nothing secondhand here, no hearsay. Yet instead of facing the evidence and accepting it, you procrastinate with questions. If I tell you things that are plain as the hand before your face and you don’t believe me, what use is there in telling you of things you can’t see, the things of God?

13-15 “No one has ever gone up into the presence of God except the One who came down from that Presence, the Son of Man. In the same way that Moses lifted the serpent in the desert so people could have something to see and then believe, it is necessary for the Son of Man to be lifted up—and everyone who looks up to him, trusting and expectant, will gain a real life, eternal life.

16-18 “This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn’t go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person’s failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.


BTW I have never ever heard the Scotsman fallacy used correctly by anyone on either side of a theological debate but it has become an absolute crutch of the non-theists. It has no application here.

 

[Nakosis]

None of this even hints that genuine faith does not exist, which is the more effectual claim.

So how does one know if their faith is genuine?
If they perceive the expected results of their faith they've found the validation they seek.

Your faith is validated by what? Or should faith remain unvalidated? I mean just to make sure you are not relying on your perception... If there is some actuality to your belief, how do you judge that?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God is the Potter and we human are the jars. IOW, it is not literal.

... though to continue with the analogy and bring this back to the topic of the thread, when a pot fails, the fault lies with the potter.

 

[JM2C]

... though to continue with the analogy and bring this back to the topic of the thread, when a pot fails, the fault lies with the potter.

Not really! The pot did not follow the will of the Potter. Therefore, one cannot blame the Potter for the fault of the pot.

 

[JM2C]

That's the least of my problems. I'm actually quite humble. But the OP is asking if God is evil. With all the things attributed to him, it would appear so. Why did he put a temptation in front of Adam and Eve and put a tempter in the garden to deceive them? It's either meant to be metaphorical or meant to be absolutely true.

You are suggesting that God created the evil from the beginning, that God is the author of sin. The devil did not follow the will of God in the garden of eden, but his/LDS own will. Therefore, the devil has his own free will against the will of God and pursued this will in the garden of Eden.

How did Lucifer D. Satan/LDS [NOTE: No other meaning intended here other than what it is: Lucifer Devil Satan] get into the Garden of Eden and from where he came from?

Lk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

We have a wittness of LDS fall from heaven and that is, the Lord Jesus Christ. IOW, my Lord and my Saviour and my God, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, was with God [Jn 10:30 I and my Father are one.] already before the fall of LDS on earth and then to the Garden of Eden here on earth.

Therefore, before the fall of good, that became evil/LDS, it was good first, because God created it to be good and not evil/LDS already like you are suggesting. When did God created this good?

We cannot read this in Genesis because LDS [NOTE: No other meaning intended here other than what it is: Lucifer Devil Satan] appeared to be God’s advesary already in chapter 3.

If you read carefully, in Ezekiel 28:13 “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;” Cleary Ethbaal [meaning living with baal] was never in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 2-3.

And in verse 14, “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth;” Another evidence that Ethbaal, a mortal human being, was never with God in heaven before he became Ethbaal, a mortal human being.

And in verse 15, “Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.”

This “anointed cherub that covereth -verse14” knew that he “wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created -verse15”, but pride entered his heart and the first sin in the whole history of eternity occurred. Pride led to self-will [Read and Understand Isa 14:13-14] and self-will to rebellion. This “anointed cherub that covereth -verse14” became the adversary ["Lucifer Devil Satan"] of God and apparently led other angels into rebellion [Read and Understand 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6].

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Not really! The pot did not follow the will of the Potter. Therefore, one cannot blame the Potter for the fault of the pot.

That makes absolutely no sense. If the pot is created defectively, then the fault lies upon the one who created it. Are you saying that if you were to buy a defective pot from a potter, that you would not blame the potter for making a sh***y pot? You would blame the pot instead? This analogy is flawed on so many levels.

 

[JM2C]

So how does one know if their faith is genuine?

Do you ever love someone from the heart, like your parents, wife, kids, friends? Are they genuine? Or do you need logical proof or material evidence to validate your love to anyone, if you do, then your love is empty or invalidated and therefore, they are not genuine.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Do you ever love someone from the heart, like your parents, wife, kids, friends? Are they genuine? Or do you need logical proof or material evidence to validate your love to anyone, if you do, then your love is empty or invalidated and therefore, they are not genuine.

Love comes from the brain... not the heart. The heart transports blood throughout the body. Emotions do not originate there.