Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[McBell]

If you kow anything about Christianity or even Calvinist's you surely know I blame the total depravity of man for all sin.

Yes, you have a blatant double standard where god is concerned.

OASN:
I still do no understand why you complain about people doing things that god has pre-ordained them to do.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

My explanation for this has always been that God created the universe, but gave people free will. This free will can cause evil people to do evil things, and god does not come down and intervene when say 13 children die. There are murders deaths and atrocities committed everyday throughout the world. People have their own free will, which we take for granted. As the question for why would a good god let evil things happen? It is exactly that. In the religious sense, the death of an innocent is not necessarily an evil thing. They are taken from their families and cause grief for others in their life, but they are in a better place now.

Or as I put it, God does not intervene no matter how horrendous or senseless the trespass, each instance being a monument for His commitment to our free will--the sole purpose of the universe.

 

[LuisDantas]

Or as I put it, God does not intervene no matter how horrendous or senseless the trespass, each instance being a monument for His commitment to our free will--the sole purpose of the universe.

And yet he condemns people to Hell for doing what they were meant to?

That does not make him appear a particularly good manager.

 

[idav]

I certainly do not use God to do this, I don't even see how there is a response to your accusation, perhaps you could show me how I and other Christians do this? If you kow anything about Christianity or even Calvinist's you surely know I blame the total depravity of man for all sin.

How can the depravity be all of mans fault when god is choosing ahead of time who is bound for damnation?

 

[Falvlun]

How can the depravity be all of mans fault when god is choosing ahead of time who is bound for damnation?

And that is a Calvinist's fundamental issue.

 

[Desert Snake]

Adam and Eve, garden of Eden, your OP question is answered in Genesis

 

[Falvlun]

Adam and Eve, garden of Eden, your OP question is answered in Genesis

Not really. Genesis doesn't tell us:
1) Why God would have chosen this form of punishment (he didn't have to)
2) Why God would punish all of mankind for the choices of two people (he didn't have to)
3) Why God wouldn't have come up with some other plan that more reasonably allows humans to observe and follow his rules (he could have)

Those are just 3 of the myriad of things that Genesis doesn't answer.

 

[Desert Snake]

Not really. Genesis doesn't tell us:
1) Why God would have chosen this form of punishment (he didn't have to)
2) Why God would punish all of mankind for the choices of two people (he didn't have to)
3) Why God wouldn't have come up with some other plan that more reasonably allows humans to observe and follow his rules (he could have)

Those are just 3 of the myriad of things that Genesis doesn't answer.

We're going by the scriptural standard of the Bible, however, we could ask any number of questions that can't be answered by Scripture, so it necessarily becomes speculations/

 

[Me Myself]

Ok MeMyself, I have limited time but I would like you to show me where you get your interpretation that you could have the same fate as Hitler, I see this is a major stumbling block for you, and while I don't share this fear, I understand where your coming from but I can't see any scripture that says this...

Only the elect are saved from hell according to your doctrine, correct? Then a buddhist who spent all his life praqcticing compassion, but had a couple of egoist thoughts, will be sent to hell just like Hittler will be sent to hell, because both are "sinners" and "not elect", no?

 

[Falvlun]

We're going by the scriptural standard of the Bible, however, we could ask any number of questions that can't be answered by Scripture, so it necessarily becomes speculations/

So your claim that Genesis answers the question is false. It barely scratches the surface.

 

[Desert Snake]

So your claim that Genesis answers the question is false. It barely scratches the surface.

I don't know about that, it does explain why Adam and Eve were punished, and we simply inherited the punishment, I'm not saying one can't be critical of the scripture, but it is explained in Genesis

 

[Falvlun]

I don't know about that, it does explain why Adam and Eve were punished, and we simply inherited the punishment, I'm not saying one can't be critical of the scripture, but it is explained in Genesis

Let me tell you a story:
Jack and Jill went up a hill to fetch a pail of water. Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.

This story tells us a few things, like where they were, what they were getting, and how they got hurt.

It does not tell us why they had to fetch water, it doesn't tell us why Jack fell down, it doesn't tell us why the fall broke Jack's head or in what manner, and it doesn't tell us why Jill came tumbling after.

This is not a criticism of the nursery rhyme. It is simply pointing out that there are missing pieces about the plot that it does not answer.

The same sort of missing parts are evident in the story of the Fall. Does it give us some pieces? Yes. But does it fully explain why God allows suffering? Not really. In fact, it only makes the whole thing that much more perplexing.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't know about that, it does explain why Adam and Eve were punished, and we simply inherited the punishment, I'm not saying one can't be critical of the scripture, but it is explained in Genesis

The idea that "we simply inherited punishment" is known as the doctrine of collective guilt. Do you believe that this doctrine makes sense? Should we pass laws to mete out punishment to people on the basis of crimes committed by their ancestors? I suspect that you would agree with me that such a policy would be lunacy. Such is the logic behind the story of Genesis.

 

[Desert Snake]

The idea that "we simply inherited punishment" is known as the doctrine of collective guilt. Do you believe that this doctrine makes sense? Should we pass laws to mete out punishment to people on the basis of crimes committed by their ancestors? I suspect that you would agree with me that such a policy would be lunacy. Such is the logic behind the story of Genesis.

This thread isn't about what I believe, I was answering the question in the context of Biblical scripture.

 

[Falvlun]

This thread isn't about what I believe, I was answering the question in the context of Biblical scripture.

What we are saying is that the Genesis story answers the "what", but not really the "why". And it is the "why" that we are asking: "Why would God do this/allow this/ choose this, etc"

 

[Desert Snake]

What we are saying is that the Genesis story answers the "what", but not really the "why". And it is the "why" that we are asking: "Why would God do this/allow this/ choose this, etc"

O.k., then I'm not sure what scripture to present, someone who knows the Bible better might be able to present a better explanation

 

[Walkntune]

This was brought out many times by Atheists and agnostics, I would like to discuss it with you in a rational and respectful manner. My disclaimer is I am a true 5 point Calvinist and If that is offensive to you,You are free to close the thread now. If I may suggest , we leave out all slander against My God in the process of this discussion, slander being pre-defined as name calling as If he were real and present.Questioning scriptures depiction of God however you interpret is allowed. Example: Is God evil? Fair enough?

Here is my premise,
this is my belief based upon my scriptures.
God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die. Hard for us to fathom, granted, but True nevertheless in Scripture. If we say he did not cause it and only allowed it to happen then God would be reacting to free will of man to accomplish their own destruction, thus putting too much power in men and essentially tying God's hands. God ordained for this latest tragedy for his own purposes, we cannot know them, we are not our creator, so The bible tells us we must accept that their is a divine plan and God is in control completely.

So you have asked, where is the comfort in that? Why do religious peoples comfort families of these tragedies with this premise of a God in control? Well let me ask you Atheists would you attempt to comfort these mothers with your precept that there is no God? No heaven and no hell? That their children are reduced to dust as they came? That the man who murdered them who took his life is also Dust and there is no justice for them either? Both parties cease to exist, one guilty, one innocent, both have the same fate in the end.

Or could it be more comforting that a God in control is with their babies now, that they know no suffering,feel no pain have no more tears and the man that took their life will be punished by a Just and perfect God. Where is the evil in my premise and the lack of evil in yours? I find evil in evildoing going unpunished.I find evil in a life given for no purpose but to die and cease to exist.
What say you?

To blame God for evil would be the same as cutting off the very branch your sitting on.Without God evil does not exist. Only a difference of opinions.

 

[LuisDantas]

To blame God for evil would be the same as cutting off the very branch your sitting on.Without God evil does not exist. Only a difference of opinions.

So it would be wrong to blame God for evil, despite evil not existing without Him?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[Walkntune]

So it would be wrong to blame God for evil, despite evil not existing without Him?

Is that what you are saying?

Close.I am saying the ones who blame God for evil don't usually believe in God nor understand him.They seem to look at death as something evil instead of a cacoon in which we turn into something way more beautiful.

 

[LuisDantas]

Close.I am saying the ones who blame God for evil don't usually believe in God nor understand him.They seem to look at death as something evil instead of a cacoon in which we turn into something way more beautiful.

Truly? I think you are misunderstanding the arguments based on the existence of evil.