Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[1robin]

The basic for murder is unlawfully killing another human.

A God is not needed to come up with human laws.

*

No it is not. The idea that it is wrong is the basis for the law. Not the other way around. If law was the basis for morality then Gandhi, Jesus, and Martin Luther King would still be considered immoral. Laws change constantly so apparently that is why secularist morality does as well.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

So you have conveniently redefined wrong to mean what in your opinion it should. Since car accidents cause harm are all car accidents that cause harm immoral? You may think you can but I do not think you can redefine reality into existence. If you can define reality into existence based on opinion why should Hitler not be able to do the same?

The Key word is accident. You said it yourself. A car accident.

Is murder an accident?

 

[adi2d]

Adam and Eve didn't realize they were naked until they ate of the tree. Being naked in a world filled with perverts is not a good thing. But being naked in front of ones own spouse is totally different.
God didn't suppress our free will--no where does it teach that. It doesn't teach that God killed any animal either.

I'm just going by what the story says. I have no way to know if the story literally happened the way it was written

Adam and eve were alone and the post I replied to said that was wrong

God stopped adam and eve from eating from the tree of life. That suppressed their free will. He could have put the cheribum and sword around the tree of knowledge of good and evil

God gave animal skin to Adam and Eve to cover themselves.

 

[Ingledsva]

He said -

Without God murder is actually wrong based on ________________.

You causing harm to another being and those around them.

You said -

So you have conveniently redefined wrong to mean what in your opinion it should. Since car accidents cause harm are all car accidents that cause harm immoral? You may think you can but I do not think you can redefine reality into existence. If you can define reality into existence based on opinion why should Hitler not be able to do the same?

I said -

The basic for murder is unlawfully killing another human.

A God is not needed to come up with human laws.

No it is not. The idea that it is wrong is the basis for the law. Not the other way around. If law was the basis for morality then Gandhi, Jesus, and Martin Luther King would still be considered immoral. Laws change constantly so apparently that is why secularist morality does as well.

You seem to not be understanding today.

Basic as in simplest explanation OFthe definition of the LAW, then we get into the various breakdowns, manslaughter, first degree, etc.

And by the way - it is ONLY what people agree is "wrong" in specific groups, religions, nations, etc.

In other words if Jews "today" did a lot of the things their ancient Hebrew "LAW" allowed them to do, - they would be arrested on the spot.

As would Muslims in the USA today, that decide to "honor Kill" a female relative, etc.

Thus it is people that decide what is called "lawful," or unlawful.

*

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

He said -



You said -



I said -




You seem to not be understanding today.

Basic as in simplest explanation OFthe definition of the LAW, then we get into the various breakdowns, manslaughter, first degree, etc.

And by the way - it is ONLY what people agree is "wrong" in specific groups, religions, nations, etc.

In other words if Jews "today" did a lot of the things their ancient Hebrew "LAW" allowed them to do, - they would be arrested on the spot.

As would Muslims in the USA today, that decide to "honor Kill" a female relative, etc.

Thus it is people that decide what is called "lawful," or unlawful.

*

You should ask him if he thinks the owning of another human being is moral.

 

[Koldo]

You asked a question about sovereignty then made a moral conclusion. Sovereignty is not morally derived. Murder is wrong is not true because God is powerful it is true because there exists no place it is untrue.

On this context, the correct sentence would actually be: Might makes mine.

Nor did we fully create our children.

Correct. I was just showing it is not the same principle.

Which half of congress had the rights to private property stored away to grant? Rights are not in theory what governments distribute but what individuals possess they are not to inhibit. As Jefferson said it was our creator not our representative that granted us rights. Governments are simply other people. I do not possess your rights. You do not possess another's rights. Congress does not possess anyone's rights to give.

Our right to own property only exists because we, as in our societies, acknowledge it.

I was using a pale reflection as evidence of a pure reality even though we screw up everything God has given. We assume rights to sovereignty exist even with far less justification that God would have. On what basis do you deny his sovereignty but insist on yours (over anything including your self which you did not create). Women will often claim to have sovereignty over their own bodies (forget that they do this at the same time they deny sovereignty to an unborn child). If they have a point at all on what basis do you claim God would not?

If you do not claim sovereignty and/or nobody attempts to enforce it, it doesn't exist on practice.

Did you assume I would have that in mind even if true? I reviewed and that would not be true regardless of what you showed concerning God.

Why wouldn't it be true?

 

[Ingledsva]

You should ask him if he thinks the owning of another human being is moral.

Why?

It makes my point perfectly - that people around the world have different ideas and laws - that are not actually based on any God - but on what the society deems lawful. Obviously all of the religions of Abraham have owned slaves.

*

 

[kjw47]

I'm just going by what the story says. I have no way to know if the story literally happened the way it was written

Adam and eve were alone and the post I replied to said that was wrong

God stopped adam and eve from eating from the tree of life. That suppressed their free will. He could have put the cheribum and sword around the tree of knowledge of good and evil

God gave animal skin to Adam and Eve to cover themselves.

Yes God gave them skins, but doesn't teach from where they came, one can only assume. God forewarned both of them if they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, they would positively die. Obviously the tree of life is what will keep mortals alive forever, it is hidden from mankind right now.
God didn't want robots he wanted all to choose to listen to him and know that he knows what is best. By putting the tree of knowledge there, it gave them free will to choose. The spirit beings have free will as well.

 

[CG Didymus]

...And by the way - it is ONLY what people agree is "wrong" in specific groups, religions, nations, etc.

In other words if Jews "today" did a lot of the things their ancient Hebrew "LAW" allowed them to do, - they would be arrested on the spot.

As would Muslims in the USA today, that decide to "honor Kill" a female relative, etc.

Thus it is people that decide what is called "lawful," or unlawful.

*

I totally agree. You should ask 1Robin if the Hebrews had a Law given by God why isn't that the Law we all live by? Never mind, I'll ask him myself.

Hey 1Robin,
People decided which books got put into the Bible. People wrote stories about Jesus. People wrote epistles explaining what a follower of Jesus should do. People made those stories and epistles part of the Hebrew Bible and said that God inspired/wrote all of it. Certain people that believe the Bible interpret and figure out how best to follow what the Bible and Jesus said to do. People decide which of those people to follow.

Other people in other lands and cultures claim they have "the truth." They have rules and laws based on their culture and religion. Yet, you don't believe them. You don't believe in their truth or their laws and their God. To them, you're not that much different than an atheist. You believe everything about their religion is false or made up traditions of men, or even worse, of demons.

But your God is so smart and sensible. He made the world perfect then cursed it? Because the people he created made a bad choice? He saved one family and drowned the rest? He annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah, because they were too wicked? He made the Hebrews follow Laws that he later says aren't important? They were only there to show us we couldn't follow them? And don't tell me that he gave us freewill because he didn't want a bunch of robots.That is not free choice if a person makes the wrong choice and then gets punished and eventually gets thrown in hell. And what will all the good Christians be doing for eternity? Worshiping and praising God? They might as well be robots. Ooh, and that other thing that some Christians say against truth being relative and saying that if that were the case then Hitler's truth would be just as valid as anybody else, BS.

Truth is relative--relative to the beliefs and customs of a particular group of people. People have followed a lot of religious leaders that had a lot of crazy ideas. But, at the time, they thought they were following the truth. And speaking of crazy, your beliefs of Christianity are not universal but very relative to your group of Christians. What makes you right? You and your mind. You and how you think. You and how you've come to believe what truth is. But your truth is not the consensus of all Christians. It is relative. The laws and morals we have now are relative to what some of us think is best. The rest of us don't care that much until it affects us. Thank God, those laws and morals change over time. Because some of them are just plain stupid or bad. But, you know what? That includes some of the God-given laws in the Bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

let me ask a question that renders even the discussion meaningless. If God is denied sovereignty then on what basis do we have any. We claim to, yet possess nothing to justify them that is even a meaningful fraction of what could be said about God.

Sovereignty is a crock. Legitimate authority is derived from the consent of the governed.

 

[adi2d]

Yes God gave them skins, but doesn't teach from where they came, one can only assume. God forewarned both of them if they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and bad, they would positively die. Obviously the tree of life is what will keep mortals alive forever, it is hidden from mankind right now.
God didn't want robots he wanted all to choose to listen to him and know that he knows what is best. By putting the tree of knowledge there, it gave them free will to choose. The spirit beings have free will as well.

You're right it could have been potato skins. That would have been much better than the fig leaves they picked out. :sarcastic

So let me get this right: God didn't want robots so He put the tree of knowledge in the middle of the garden. Adam and eve didn't know what evil was and got suckered into eating from it. Now they must die because God said so. They used there free will and got knowledge but couldn't use free will to live forever.

Free to choose without knowledge. Not free to choose after getting knowledge

 

[maninthewilderness]

Why did God lie to Adam?

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Sounds like he just wanted to keep his pet humans ignorant.

 

[idontseehim]

Mankind turned it's back on God and so God turned His back on mankind. When we try to live without God we must face the consequences. We do not allow God in school so how can He protect children there. God allows thing to happen because people do not allow Him to control things His way.

I will be respectful of your beliefs in your god but if my child got shot in a classroom its not because the children did not recite the pledge of allegiance

Without god good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things
When good people do evil things that takes religion

 

[johnhanks]

Without God murder is actually wrong based on ___________________.

its definition. "Murder is not wrong" is a self-contradicting statement, since the word murder can only mean wrongful homicide.

A trivial point to make, certainly. Far more interesting are the criteria by which homicides are deemed to be morally and legally culpable (murder) or not, and the variability we find here throughout history and ethnography is huge: there have been, and are, many societies which classify as justifiable homicide what we would call murder.

As succinctly put recently by Ingledsva -

people around the world have different ideas and laws - that are not actually based on any God - but on what the society deems lawful.

And what they deem lawful (and morally acceptable) is generally what lets them prosper.

Your own response to this very obvious point, reliable as a knee-jerk, has generally been to summon up your old ally Adolf:

If you can define reality into existence based on opinion why should Hitler not be able to do the same?

You are, I'm sure, aware of the argument fallacy called Appeal to Adverse Consequences. Your argument in the above quote boils down to "morality must be absolute and god-given, otherwise I would have no solid ground from which to call the Nazis evil" - a classic appeal to consequences. You and I no doubt share a common disgust of Nazism and its deeds. Neither of us need like the fact that that disgust is culturally rather than absolutely grounded - but not liking the fact doesn't invalidate it.

You base your view of morality on the way you wish it to be; I (and others such as, I'm guessing, Ingledsva) on how we see it to be. It operates in the world as an observable sociological and anthropological phenomenon, not as a philosophical abstraction.

 

[Indian Iconoclast]

Life and death are two stages of a material physio-chemical unending chain of process of nature. Life does not grant continuing chain reaction of the material substances of the living form in other words immortality! Death therefore may come in infancy, youth and in agedness. The beauty and irony is that it comes unexpectedly. Well most of the times!

God as perceived by humans, as their Creator, Sustainer and Helper and Judge, has nothing to do with early or not early birth or death. All that we as humans whether in belief of a God or not have to do is to make the best use of the span of our life in enlightenment of our minds with education, and act earnestly in the pursuit of beneficial goals of health, medicine, charity, aid in need of not only us humans but the rest of animals and plants and this green earth so that the chain of life and death may continue here till the sun ceases to sustain this earth and life on it.

 

[kjw47]

You're right it could have been potato skins. That would have been much better than the fig leaves they picked out. :sarcastic

So let me get this right: God didn't want robots so He put the tree of knowledge in the middle of the garden. Adam and eve didn't know what evil was and got suckered into eating from it. Now they must die because God said so. They used there free will and got knowledge but couldn't use free will to live forever.

Free to choose without knowledge. Not free to choose after getting knowledge

Yes, satan lied to Eve and told her she would not die. When satan told Eve that they would become like God, knowing good and evil--he was saying that they wouldn't need Gods advice on how to live happy lives if they knew both sides. So in front of all creation, Gods universal sovereignty was challenged--it is being settled once and for all time.Do we need God to guide our steps to true happiness? The answer is yes---- Gods way= mortals only knowing good. God is correct.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Yes, satan lied to Eve and told her she would not die. When satan told Eve that they would become like God, knowing good and evil--he was saying that they wouldn't need Gods advice on how to live happy lives if they knew both sides. So in front of all creation, Gods universal sovereignty was challenged--it is being settled once and for all time.Do we need God to guide our steps to true happiness? The answer is yes---- Gods way= mortals only knowing good. God is correct.

So owning another human being is correct?

 

[Silver Wolf]

I don't know why God allows children to die, or for that matter anyone, but I'll try my best to explain how I believe it works.
This universe, the one we see before us, is material. It is built on skandhas (aggregates) how can such a world be permanent? God is permanent, so is the human soul/consciousness. Their abodes, however, are material and must die.
God set everything in motion, like setting up dominoes and knocking one over, starting a sequence. Why should God interfere with this sequence?
And for all we know, the child could later die painfully, or become a murderer or a thief. Then we'd blame God just like we do now. "Why did you let this happen? Why did you let him die painfully?" or "Why did you let him become a great evil man? Now look at all the sins he's committed."

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

I don't know why God allows children to die, or for that matter anyone, but I'll try my best to explain how I believe it works.
This universe, the one we see before us, is material. It is built on skandhas (aggregates) how can such a world be permanent? God is permanent, so is the human soul/consciousness. Their abodes, however, are material and must die.
God set everything in motion, like setting up dominoes and knocking one over, starting a sequence. Why should God interfere with this sequence?
And for all we know, the child could later die painfully, or become a murderer or a thief. Then we'd blame God just like we do now. "Why did you let this happen? Why did you let him die painfully?" or "Why did you let him become a great evil man? Now look at all the sins he's committed."

or the child could become a great person as well.

How we raise are children will have a pretty big impact on who they become. How society sets us up has a big impact on who will become. To say that "could have been an evil man" ignores a lot of factors that account for a persons growth and development.

 

[Koldo]

I don't know why God allows children to die, or for that matter anyone, but I'll try my best to explain how I believe it works.
This universe, the one we see before us, is material. It is built on skandhas (aggregates) how can such a world be permanent? God is permanent, so is the human soul/consciousness. Their abodes, however, are material and must die.

Why must the abodes die?
Why must material things cease to exist?
And for that matter, why must these abodes exist?

God set everything in motion, like setting up dominoes and knocking one over, starting a sequence. Why should God interfere with this sequence?
And for all we know, the child could later die painfully, or become a murderer or a thief. Then we'd blame God just like we do now. "Why did you let this happen? Why did you let him die painfully?" or "Why did you let him become a great evil man? Now look at all the sins he's committed."

Or he could prevent all evil acts performed by/to him.
Simple as that.