Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[1robin]

No where does it say in the Bible carnal man is free moral agents; it teaches to the contrary of this religous man made belief.

It certainly does. The Bible says we are made in the image of God. Do we look like a non material being? No. Do we have God's infinite power, intelligence, and knowledge? No. What we and God both have is the power to choose. We are both free moral agents. Humans are called persons. Persons are defined as beings with choice.

I really do not care if The Genesis story is literal; BUT it is very spiriitual and the foundation for the rest of the Bible.

I never denied the story, I said it is impossible to determine whether it is literal in some aspects or allegory.

You have the most bizarre beliefs of anyone claiming to be a Christian I have ever seen, and I am familiar with thousands of them. Exactly what type of Christian are you?

 

[emy123]

God is not evil, we are all manifesting our own creation.

 

[1robin]

God is not evil, we are all manifesting our own creation.

What is that in response to, and what does the latter part of it mean?

 

[Benoni]

It certainly does. The Bible says we are made in the image of God. Do we look like a non material being? No. Do we have God's infinite power, intelligence, and knowledge? No. What we and God both have is the power to choose. We are both free moral agents. Humans are called persons. Persons are defined as beings with choice.

I never denied the story, I said it is impossible to determine whether it is literal in some aspects or allegory.

You have the most bizarre beliefs of anyone claiming to be a Christian I have ever seen, and I am familiar with thousands of them. Exactly what type of Christian are you?

Wrong…
Did you choose where you were born; who your parents were; your color of skin????


Do you thinks N Korean people have much of a choice, or even many christians locked in the religions of their parents???


Carnal Man is a slave to sin and is dead in trespasses and it is his nature to totally reject all things of God; man has no choice or freewill to choose his own salvation; this is a religious myth and not a scriptural fact; if anything the Bible teaches it is God who draws; it is Jesus that saves not mans carnal mind believing on by its own will.


The word freewill or choice are not found anywhere in the NT when it comes to someone freely choosing his own salvation. The word freewill is not even found in the Bible except for the Freewill Offering in the OT; which has nothing to do with salvation even as an example. God saves us by His grace, the and only then can carnal man have faith to believe in God and be saved.

God caused the fall in Romans 8:20.



In John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) and I will add forces him: and I will raise him up at the last day. and John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me as you so wisely posted. The word draw is the Greek word from Strong’s 1670: helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):

 

[Benoni]

It certainly does. The Bible says we are made in the image of God. Do we look like a non material being? No. Do we have God's infinite power, intelligence, and knowledge? No. What we and God both have is the power to choose. We are both free moral agents. Humans are called persons. Persons are defined as beings with choice.

I never denied the story, I said it is impossible to determine whether it is literal in some aspects or allegory.

You have the most bizarre beliefs of anyone claiming to be a Christian I have ever seen, and I am familiar with thousands of them. Exactly what type of Christian are you?

The reason my beliefs are so bizarre to you is I refuse to limit God to some man made religious belief like carnal man is a free moral agent.

 

[Ingledsva]

The reason my beliefs are so bizarre to you is I refuse to limit God to some man made religious belief like carnal man is a free moral agent.

If man is not free there is no Choosing God!



*

 

[Benoni]

If man is not free there is no Choosing God!



*

That is 100% right. Not until God calls you. We are saved by grace not carnal mans choices.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Ingledsva]

Wrong…
Did you choose where you were born; who your parents were; your color of skin????


Do you thinks N Korean people have much of a choice, or even many christians locked in the religions of their parents???


Carnal Man is a slave to sin and is dead in trespasses and it is his nature to totally reject all things of God; man has no choice or freewill to choose his own salvation; this is a religious myth and not a scriptural fact; if anything the Bible teaches it is God who draws; it is Jesus that saves not mans carnal mind believing on by its own will.


The word freewill or choice are not found anywhere in the NT when it comes to someone freely choosing his own salvation. The word freewill is not even found in the Bible except for the Freewill Offering in the OT; which has nothing to do with salvation even as an example. God saves us by His grace, the and only then can carnal man have faith to believe in God and be saved.

God caused the fall in Romans 8:20.



In John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) and I will add forces him: and I will raise him up at the last day. and John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me as you so wisely posted. The word draw is the Greek word from Strong’s 1670: helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):

Wrong.


It also means - to draw - as in a good preacher.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

If man is not free there is no Choosing God!

That is 100% right. Not until God calls you. We are saved by grace not carnal mans choices.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Baloney - your thinking is convoluted.


The "draw" is to, and of, Jesus and his teachings, not God calling anyone, and after his death, the story of his paying the price so all could have the opportunity to rise - IF THEY CHOOSE!

*

 

[Benoni]

Baloney - your thinking is convoluted.


The "draw" is to, and of, Jesus and his teachings, not God calling anyone, and after his death, the story of his paying the price so all could have the opportunity to rise - IF THEY CHOOSE!

*

I give you scripture and you give me your bias opinion and you say my thinking is convoluted???


You have a problem with Jesus teachings too????

Your the one who is not quoting scripture so you know where the Baloney is.

Yes all will be come alive in Christ in God's timing by his Word not your opinion.

 

[1robin]

I give you scripture and you give me your bias opinion and you say my thinking is convoluted???


You have a problem with Jesus teachings too????

Your the one who is not quoting scripture so you know where the Baloney is.

Yes all will be come alive in Christ in God's timing by his Word not your opinion.

It is inevitable. Opinion, preference, and emotion is all they have to offer against God.


You may have a very unusual theology but if you make any argument in support of any God then emotional objections in the form of argumentation is coming your way from the side that determines truth by preference and convenience.

 

[Benoni]

It is inevitable. Opinion, preference, and emotion is all they have to offer against God.


You may have a very unusual theology but if you make any argument in support of any God then emotional objections in the form of argumentation is coming your way from the side that determines truth by preference and convenience.

So far I am the ONLY one quoting scripture.

My Theology is seeking the truth of God's Word something I am waiting for you to
refute using God's Word.

All you have done is point fingers.

Scripture please?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.



Perhaps you do not believe in the Bible???

 

[1robin]

So far I am the ONLY one quoting scripture.

My Theology is seeking the truth of God's Word something I am waiting for you to
refute using God's Word.

All you have done is point fingers.

Scripture please?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.



Perhaps you do not believe in the Bible???

Good Lord man. Are you so bitter that even if I agree with you, you will take exception to it?

I did not challenge your theology here. I have in other places and supplied far more scripture than you did.

I have no idea why you posted John 6:44, I agree with it. I agree with every scripture the Bible originally contained.

Let me ask you something but you do not have to answer. Are you born again? Why do you think so or not?

 

[Benoni]

Good Lord man. Are you so bitter that even if I agree with you, you will take exception to it?

I did not challenge your theology here. I have in other places and supplied far more scripture than you did.

I have no idea why you posted John 6:44, I agree with it. I agree with every scripture the Bible originally contained.

Let me ask you something but you do not have to answer. Are you born again? Why do you think so or not?

Am I born again??? Thats like asking me if I graduated from the first grade????

So do you believe carnal man can save himself with his own freewill?

 

[1robin]

Am I born again??? Thats like asking me if I graduated from the first grade????

So do you believe carnal man can save himself with his own freewill?

Of course not. I will answer all of your questions here but I can't until you answer both of mine. I asked if you were, you say yes. I also asked if so, then why do you think so? What occurred and under what circumstances that made you believe you had experienced a risen Christ. Once you answer my second question sufficiently then I will tell you why I am asking and any other questions you have. If you are born again you will understand why I ask.

 

[Benoni]

Of course not. I will answer all of your questions here but I can't until you answer both of mine. I asked if you were, you say yes. I also asked if so, then why do you think so? What occurred and under what circumstances that made you believe you had experienced a risen Christ. Once you answer my second question sufficiently then I will tell you why I am asking and any other questions you have.

"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,... and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you." (Matt. 7:22-23).

Know-- the Greek word is "ginosko" meaning: to know by experience.

To have an intimate understanding and knowledge of another, based upon experience with them.

When you have a deep communion with one, sharing the secrets of their heart, you come to know the nature and character of a person. This is far more than merely sharing surface opinions, like "it's a nice day," or, "looks like it might rain," "let's go for a cup of coffee and chat a bit." That's not coming to KNOW a person.


But when you walk with them through deep trials, share their grief and joy, and become vulnerable because you are openly exposing your inner self to them-- then you get to really know someone.

When you KNOW HIM by experience, in the intimate knowledge of His love, of His grace, of His mercy, and He reveals to you an understanding of His plan and purpose, then other people can impute to Him all sorts of strange ideas of what "God is like," with doctrines that deny Him as He truly IS, and you can simply say to them, "You do not KNOW Him! He is nothing like you say. You charge Him with false motives and gross distortions of His character."

When there is nothing in common, no intelligent appreciation for the same things, no mutual understanding of things, then we are AS FOREIGNERS, of a different breed, a species that they cannot relate to, and they will look at you, and simply say, "I don't know you." You are a stranger.

Certainly HIS NATURE is foreign to the world, and as it becomes our nature also, we are to them as "pilgrims and strangers."

But, John writes, "Now are we the sons (Greek, children) of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be. It is not yet made manifest! This WHAT suggests something unspeakable, contained in the likeness of God. There are marvels in Him which are yet to be revealed, beyond all we can ask or think. "We don't know what we shall become in the future. We only know that, IF REALITY WERE TO BREAK THROUGH, we should reflect His likeness, for we should see Him as He really is!" (Phillips translation).

Ah, no man can tell you today the real WHAT-- what we shall be. There are various speculations-- where revelation ends, speculations begin-- but the mind of man cannot conceive THE WHAT of God. He is so ALL GOD, and we are yet so human, that except for the small glimpses He gives of Himself to us, we do not know what we shall become.

But this much we do know, BECAUSE WE ARE HIS CHILDREN, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM. And when reality breaks through, "Then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor. 13:12).

 

[1robin]

"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,... and then will I profess unto them, I never knew you." (Matt. 7:22-23).

Know-- the Greek word is "ginosko" meaning: to know by experience.

To have an intimate understanding and knowledge of another, based upon experience with them.

When you have a deep communion with one, sharing the secrets of their heart, you come to know the nature and character of a person. This is far more than merely sharing surface opinions, like "it's a nice day," or, "looks like it might rain," "let's go for a cup of coffee and chat a bit." That's not coming to KNOW a person.


But when you walk with them through deep trials, share their grief and joy, and become vulnerable because you are openly exposing your inner self to them-- then you get to really know someone.

When you KNOW HIM by experience, in the intimate knowledge of His love, of His grace, of His mercy, and He reveals to you an understanding of His plan and purpose, then other people can impute to Him all sorts of strange ideas of what "God is like," with doctrines that deny Him as He truly IS, and you can simply say to them, "You do not KNOW Him! He is nothing like you say. You charge Him with false motives and gross distortions of His character."

When there is nothing in common, no intelligent appreciation for the same things, no mutual understanding of things, then we are AS FOREIGNERS, of a different breed, a species that they cannot relate to, and they will look at you, and simply say, "I don't know you." You are a stranger.

Certainly HIS NATURE is foreign to the world, and as it becomes our nature also, we are to them as "pilgrims and strangers."

But, John writes, "Now are we the sons (Greek, children) of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be. It is not yet made manifest! This WHAT suggests something unspeakable, contained in the likeness of God. There are marvels in Him which are yet to be revealed, beyond all we can ask or think. "We don't know what we shall become in the future. We only know that, IF REALITY WERE TO BREAK THROUGH, we should reflect His likeness, for we should see Him as He really is!" (Phillips translation).

Ah, no man can tell you today the real WHAT-- what we shall be. There are various speculations-- where revelation ends, speculations begin-- but the mind of man cannot conceive THE WHAT of God. He is so ALL GOD, and we are yet so human, that except for the small glimpses He gives of Himself to us, we do not know what we shall become.

But this much we do know, BECAUSE WE ARE HIS CHILDREN, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM. And when reality breaks through, "Then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor. 13:12).

I am not asking a doctrinal question. I am not looking for a dissertation on knowing Christ or being his child. I am asking you why you in your own words claim to be born again. What instant were you united with God through Christ? How did you arrive at that moment? What did you feel at that time? One minute we are children of Satan at enmity to God, the next we are united with an infinite being. What happened to you at that moment? Or do you feel you have always been God's child? Did you arrive at faith by obedience? That is the kind of information I am asking for?

 

[Benoni]

I am not asking a doctrinal question. I am not looking for a dissertation on knowing Christ or being his child. I am asking you why you in your own words claim to be born again. What instant were you united with God through Christ? How did you arrive at that moment? What did you feel at that time? One minute we are children of Satan at enmity to God, the next we are united with an infinite being. What happened to you at that moment? Or do you feel you have always been God's child? Did you arrive at faith by obedience? That is the kind of information I am asking for?

Satan is a tool in the hand of God and has no power unless God gives it to him. You give Satan far too much power. You are far too hung up on the word born again.
There is a universe of difference between being justified by faith and being born again. Both the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailor believed on Christ and were justified from their sins, but I think we would be very wrong to imagine that they had done any more than "receive Him" and, because they had received Him, power was given to them to become sons of God.

Yes I was justified by faith as a child; but my relationship is a grown a long ways since that early experience for I have walked with the Lord for over 50 years. Why are you so down on those God has never called? They do not have the power to be justified by faith for they are carnal.

 

[1robin]

Satan is a tool in the hand of God and has no power unless God gives it to him. You give Satan far too much power. You are far too hung up on the word born again.
There is a universe of difference between being justified by faith and being born again. Both the thief on the cross and the Philippian jailor believed on Christ and were justified from their sins, but I think we would be very wrong to imagine that they had done any more than "receive Him" and, because they had received Him, power was given to them to become sons of God.

Yes I was justified by faith as a child; but my relationship is a grown a long ways since that early experience for I have walked with the Lord for over 50 years. Why are you so down on those God has never called? They do not have the power to be justified by faith for they are carnal.

This is another dissertation on Doctrines but I think I determined what I was looking for between the lines. I will address a few points you made but will not get into why I was asking until a later post. It takes quite a bit of typing.

First I am "hung up" on being born again because Christ was hung up on it.

I am down on anyone, but that does not mean I will allow my wish for everyone to be saved to subvert what is necessary to be saved.

All are called, few are chosen. And I mean chosen in that they responded to their calling.

My next posts will explain why I asked the question to begin with but because I am still not clear on it. What do you mean you were justified by faith as a child? Where? What took place? How old were you?

 

[Benoni]

quote]


Sorry for some reason I cannot use the quote option in this site so I will color code my response to your questions.

First I am "hung up" on being born again because Christ was hung up on it.

Yes Jesus died on the cross for our sins but the concept that everyone who accept Jesus as savior is born again is a fundamental religious view. It also says he that is born of God does not sin. Are you sinless????

I am down on anyone, but that does not mean I will allow my wish for everyone to be saved to subvert what is necessary to be saved.

Yes you are your religious believe condemns billions of lost souls God never called. Your wish will come true because all in Adam will be made alive in Christ. All flesh will see the salvation of God. Its god’s timing not yours.

All are called, few are chosen. And I mean chosen in that they responded to their calling.

This is true, But what you are missing is this is speaking about God’s elect not all people God will call in the ages to come.