Why Does Religion Exist

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Religion exists because for as long as there have been humans, some of those humans have had religious experiences; by which I mean, profound phenomenological experiences which mundane existence has not equipped us to comprehend.

There's a lot of overlap between "profound phenomenological experiences which mundane existence has not equipped us to comprehend" and "symptoms of mental illness," and I note that the vast majority of religions that existed today were founded in an era when we didn't have a good understanding of mental illness or how to diagnose it.

 

[wellwisher]

Here are a few reasons you may or may not agree with.

1-Religion is a holdover of superstition from a time with limited scientific knowledge that we have since grow out of so it no longer has any value in our lives.

2-Religion is a tool is a tool that was and can be used to control the masses.

3-Religion contains valuable lessons like fables to aid people in their journey through life.

4-Religion is a profound truth that if understood leads one to a correct understanding of reality/the universe.

5-Other. A different reason for why religion exists which doesn't fit into any of the above. Please explain.

Religions still exist because the philosophy of science ignores a large block of valid natural data. The Philosophy of Science is connected to group verification of phenomena, through the five senses. This approach and philosophy limits science to the material world, since the five senses are connected to the material and chemical worlds.

For example, if a group of scientists were in the woods, and the heard a sound in the darkness, the sound might be verified by all, but the various theories for the source of the sound may not be verified by all. That is the line in sand. It would up to each scientists to try and prove their theory so all can see the source. Then that will be inside the line.

This approach, although very useful, cannot fully address internal consciousness data, such as dreams. Science knows dreams do happen, but we cannot see another person's dream to verify all the details. These phenomena are real, but are outside the scope of the Philosophy of Science. It is like what each scientist thought they heard in the woods example; internal overlay to form a theory.

Dreams and visions are often associated with religion. These are genuine internal data of natural information. Science is not up to the task, based on the material limitations of its philosophy. Religions deal more with these internal experiences, connected to the brain's operating system. Some aspects of science approach this, but it is still called soft science, since some data and effects are not easy to reproduce; unique data.

The analogy would be like looking at a data disk, that is coded in a computer language we do not know. We can analyze the disk and all can agree it is made of glass. We can even display the code, but it makes no sense; dreams, so we dismiss it is worthless and unscientific. Religions by being so old, and through meditation; dwell on internal data, helps learns to understand some of the coding, such as the value of command lines like prayers.

Being able to see things, science cannot see; coding, looks like magic. But it is really due to the brain generating data to help translate itself; projection of a map of the within. Mythological systems were often maps of the brain's firmware; Apps, which define human nature, at a given time in human conscious evolution. The age of the Titans was different from the age of the Olympians. Human consciousness changed along with the changes in the projected maps; apps.

Out of the empty space of Chaos came Gaea, the earth, Tartarus, the underworld, and Eros, desire. Gaea gave birth to the mountains, the sky, and the sea. She took her son the sky, Uranus, as her husband, and with him, she mothered the twelve Titans, the very first gods and goddesses, taller than the mountains they used as thrones. However, Uranus was disgusted by their next children, the three cyclopes and three monstrous sons, each with fifty heads and one hundred arms, and he threw them into Tartarus, the underworld prison of suffering.

Yet Gaea loved all of her children, and she could not forgive Uranus for his cruelty. She made a diamond sickle for her youngest son, Cronus, and with it he defeated his father. Gaea later married her son Pontus, the ocean, and the Titans took charge of the universe. They were the ancestors or parents of most of the twelve Olympians discussed here below, though it was through their children that they too were eventually overthrown.

This very first symbolism is about the evolution of the human ego or human secondary center of consciousness. From chaos; formative years, there appears the earth; POV for sensory reality, plus a POV for the under world or the inner world of dreams. Eros or desire appears to have been the drive behind the original ego about 5-10K years ago.

The ego offered a secondary reference. On the outside we see through the eyes of the inner self; desire, and also inside we see the inner self as separates from the ego; dreams. Adam and Eve in paradise, was where all desires were instinctively fulfilled. I am not going to go play by play, but the evolution of these gods; the changing map, reflect the interaction of the inner self and ego and the development of advancing brain firmware apps, that underly evolving human nature; inner self and ego. Science sees superstition, I see brain IT.

 

[Heyo]

So then, nothing otherwise usable?

There are religions, which probably are misclassified as such, like Buddhism and Taoism, that have philosophy imbedded in them - or could be called philosophy. Philosophy is a useful tool to think about the things that science can't reach.
That would be filed under #3 valuable life lessons, or maybe even #4 profound truths. But it is the philosophy aspect in only some religions, so I didn't include it.

 

[PureX]

This is an unusually accurate statement about religion by you. I will add that most believers don't willfully create the illusion or dogma, believers are created by the existing influence of others in society, especially parents and other family members. Children learn these ideas, and conform to the beliefs of those around them without asking if they are true or even plausible. By the time a teenager could question these ideas it is too well ingrained in their cultural operating system, much in the way language is. Some do manage to question religious ideas, but most just accept them to some degree.

That’s only a small part of it, and it’s not the important part.

The important part is that people believe in religion because they want the religious dogma to be true. They want to believe that they have more control over fate than they actually have, by gaining the aid and approval of a God that they presume does have control over their fate.

It’s the same motive that fuels scientism, but without the intercession of any gods.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Do you have a reference?
Out of curiosity.

My favorite is evolutionary biologist David Sloan Wilson, the author of Darwin's Cathedral. "David Sloan Wilson ... he concludes that religion is adaptive."

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3094605

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

Social control, superstition, contact with the divine and spirit world.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'd still put that under superstition. I agree that these experiences happen.
Without a scientific mindset, we created supernatural explanations for them.

I expect that as we learn more about how the brain works we will eventually come to understand the physiological process behind them.

Yeah, sure. We have a lot to learn about consciousness. Despite the advances neuroscience has made recently in mapping the correlations between mental processes and activity in the brain, we don’t even have a scientific theory of consciousness yet.

The weight of evidence so far suggests that scientific materialism alone cannot unlock all the mysteries of consciousness. It can’t really, because in reducing consciousness entirely to physical factors on the brain, we lose sight of the fact that the mind is not the brain. As Nagasena’s chariot* is more than the wheels, the axle, the chassis, so the mind is more than the sun of electro chemical activity in an organ of the body.

No-self (anatta) in The Questions of King Milinda

 

[Nakosis]

Yeah, sure. We have a lot to learn about consciousness. Despite the advances neuroscience has made recently in mapping the correlations between mental processes and activity in the brain, we don’t even have a scientific theory of consciousness yet.

The weight of evidence so far suggests that scientific materialism alone cannot unlock all the mysteries of consciousness.

What evidence? What evidence that there is something other than physicality going on here?

It can’t really, because in reducing consciousness entirely to physical factors on the brain, we lose sight of the fact that the mind is not the brain. As Nagasena’s chariot* is more than the wheels, the axle, the chassis, so the mind is more than the sun of electro chemical activity in an organ of the body.

No-self (anatta) in The Questions of King Milinda

Why can't the "self" be the brain?
When I think of the self. myself I see myself as an active brain.
Nagasena’s chariot is not conscious nor has a brain.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why can't the "self" be the brain?
When I think of the self. myself I see myself as an active brain.
Nagasena’s chariot is not conscious nor has a brain.

If you get a lobotomy, is much of “I” then gone?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why can't the "self" be the brain?

It could be. But so far, inadequate research has been done. Scientists don't even have a working, accepted definition what consciousness is -- they are at the very beginning stages of looking into this. Until proper studies have been done, it's best to say "We don't really know, but here are some of the ideas..."

When I think of the self. myself I see myself as an active brain.
Nagasena’s chariot is not conscious nor has a brain.

Certainly there is some evidence for your view that the brain is necessary for consciousness. For example, damage to the brain can put a person into a deep coma. Would you say they are conscious?

 

[Nakosis]

It could be. But so far, inadequate research has been done. Scientists don't even have a working, accepted definition what consciousness is -- they are at the very beginning stages of looking into this. Until proper studies have been done, it's best to say "We don't really know, but here are some of the ideas..."

Certainly there is some evidence for your view that the brain is necessary for consciousness. For example, damage to the brain can put a person into a deep coma. Would you say they are conscious?

I know the are in the process of measuring consciousness. They believe they can determine by brainwave activity when a person in a coma is conscious or not. Consciousness requires active communication throughout the brain. That communication limits itself to individual parts of the brain when we sleep or are put under anesthesia.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I know the are in the process of measuring consciousness. They believe they can determine by brainwave activity when a person in a coma is conscious or not. Consciousness requires active communication throughout the brain. That communication limits itself to individual parts of the brain when we sleep or are put under anesthesia.

I appreciate your response, because you address the coma issue. However, studying brain waves may not be the same thing as studying consciousness. For example, science has to include an explanation for people who are clinically dead and come back reporting seeing all sorts of things (NDE's).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I appreciate your response, because you address the coma issue. However, studying brain waves may not be the same thing as studying consciousness. For example, science has to include an explanation for people who are clinically dead and come back reporting seeing all sorts of things (NDE's).

Interesting thought that the brain waves may not be the same thing as studying consciousness.
What kind of brain waves would a person have who was already dead for four days.
To me, this is where Ecclesiastes 9:5 is informative that the dead know nothing ( aka No brain waves )

 

[Nakosis]

I appreciate your response, because you address the coma issue. However, studying brain waves may not be the same thing as studying consciousness. For example, science has to include an explanation for people who are clinically dead and come back reporting seeing all sorts of things (NDE's).

They are looking into it.

“These lucid experiences cannot be considered a trick of a disordered or dying brain, but rather a unique human experience that emerges on the brink death,” says Dr. Parnia. As the brain is shutting down, many of its natural braking systems are released. Known as disinhibition, this provides access to the depths of a person’s consciousness, including stored memories, thoughts from early childhood to death, and other aspects of reality. While no one knows the evolutionary purpose of this phenomenon, it clearly reveals “intriguing questions about human consciousness, even at death,” says Dr. Parnia.
Lucid Dying: Patients Recall Death Experiences During CPR

 

[IndigoChild5559]

They are looking into it.

Yes, I'm aware. Great quote btw.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Here are a few reasons you may or may not agree with.
1-Religion is a holdover of superstition from a time with limited scientific knowledge that we have since grow out of so it no longer has any value in our lives.
2-Religion is a tool is a tool that was and can be used to control the masses.
3-Religion contains valuable lessons like fables to aid people in their journey through life.
4-Religion is a profound truth that if understood leads one to a correct understanding of reality/the universe.
5-Other. A different reason for why religion exists which doesn't fit into any of the above. Please explain.

One reason, a different reason, for why religion exists traces all the way back to ancient Babylon.
As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their religious ideas and practices and spread them out world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
Thus, your above reasons shows why there is similar or overlapping religious ideas throughout today's religious world.
To me, a different reason why religion (or worship) exists which doesn't fit into the above is what Jesus taught.
Superstition is what is taught outside of Scripture but sometimes taught as being Scripture when it is not.
What Jesus controlled or regulated was weather phenomenon - Mark 6;51; Mark 4:39
God's moral laws are designed for health to protect and guide but God forces No one to follow them.
The story of the neighborly good Samaritan is Not as a fable, but an illustration to show us that we should all broaden out, widen out, in showing or giving practical love to someone in their time of distress.
To me, 'the correct understanding of the reality/the universe' is connected or tied in with God's original purpose.
In God's original purpose was for man to inhabit the Earth and would be an Earth without death for mankind.
God created Earth as man's lasting home (Psalm 115:16) Man was to fill or populate Earth (Gen. 1:28) enlarge by spreading out beautiful paradisical Eden until edenic beauty filled the whole Earth, and Earth populated (Not over-populated) with right-hearted people living forever on Earth as described in Isaiah chapter 35.
The religion of the Bible is about earthly paradise lost to paradise being regained on Earth.
This is why Jesus believed in 'worship' (John 4:23-24) and why we are all invited to pray to God asking for Jesus to come! - Rev. 22:20. Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2 - Jesus can and he will.

 

[PearlSeeker]

5-Other. A different reason for why religion exists which doesn't fit into any of the above. Please explain.

This. It's hard to tell what were the original reasons and there is no consensus on this. My guess would be:

- irrational reason: primordial religious experience (experience of what Rudolf Otto called "numinous" and "mysterium tremendum")

- rational reason: seeking explanations of life, existence...

The Idea of the Holy - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mircea Eliade - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I also voted 3. A way to pass values to next generations. But this was not the original reason IMO.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.........As I see it, religion came to be as a result of a humankind's desire to understand the nature of their being, the nature of the world in which they lived, and their purpose in this world.

In Genesis we find the man Nimrod. Nimrod with his famous Tower of Babel. - see Genesis 10:8-10; Genesis 11:2-4
Not any desire to understand the nature of their being, nor the nature of the world, but Nimrod's personal purpose.
Often in today's religious world we find personal purpose often as in 'church' business being over the purpose Jesus has.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This. It's hard to tell what were the original reasons and there is no consensus on this. My guess would be:
- irrational reason: primordial religious experience (experience of what Rudolf Otto called "numinous" and "mysterium tremendum")
- rational reason: seeking explanations of life, existence.....................................

I would agree with 'irrational reason' because of the man named Nimrod ( Gen. 10:8-10; Gen. 11:2-4 )
Not to make rational reason or seeking explanations of life, existence...etc. but to make a Name for one's self.
Like set-apart clergy who seat themselves in the 'temples' (houses of worship) as if they are 'god ' when in reality they are anti-God.

 

[SalixIncendium]

In Genesis we find the man Nimrod. Nimrod with his famous Tower of Babel. - see Genesis 10:8-10; Genesis 11:2-4
Not any desire to understand the nature of their being, nor the nature of the world, but Nimrod's personal purpose.
Often in today's religious world we find personal purpose often as in 'church' business being over the purpose Jesus has.

I'm not understanding the correlation here to what I said.