Why does the Church pass over Passover?

[Desert Snake]

Unless God selects you to be born again, no one is born again. You can't just decide that you are going to be born again.

Isn't there a verse that says something like Jesus chooses you, you don't choose Jesus?

 

[CMike]

Isn't there a verse that says something like Jesus chooses you, you don't choose Jesus?

The wants picks the wizard Harry.

 

[roger1440]

Isn't there a verse that says something like Jesus chooses you, you don't choose Jesus?

Kinda like the U. S. Marines. “Looking for a few good men.”

 

[Shiranui117]

So instead of Passover, they have Easter, which in many other languages tends to be called something like Pascha or Pascua or whatnot, reflecting that this is what Christians have in place of Passover now.

This is basically correct. In the Christian view, Christ is our Passover--just as the blood of the lambs anointing the doorposts of Hebrew homes marked the Hebrews as separate from the Egyptians, and just as Moses led his people to freedom from Egyptian slavery, so also the blood of Christ anointing our souls marks us as separate from the world, and Christ led us to freedom from sin and death. At the Passover celebration/Last Supper, Jesus said to celebrate the Eucharist in memory of Him, not in memory of Moses and the Exodus.

Also, maybe one of our resident Eastern Orthodox members will correct me, but I believe many of the Orthodox Christian churches make note of Passover, and have Easter customs derived from Passover concepts, and so forth.

Admittedly, I'm still an inquirer into Orthodoxy myself, and have only experienced four Paschal celebrations according to the Byzantine (i.e. Eastern Orthodox) tradition--two with the Byzantine Catholics, two with the Orthodox. And I know next to nothing about Jewish Passover celebrations as they're celebrated today. Maybe you could give a list of some Jewish Passover concepts/traditions, and I can say whether or not there's an Eastern Orthodox equivalent? It's at times like this I wish we had active Oriental Orthodox members, though--they tend to be very close to Judaism in terms of many customs and practices, more so than us Eastern Orthodox, especially the Ethiopians and the Syrians.

 

[jonah bear]

The way in which Xianity grew outside of Israel (correct me if i'm wrong) rather than within Israel strikes me as odd, Though of course The Holy Land and the m.east have early Xian Churches

Yes, it is highly unusual and prophesied about by Jesus:

Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

This was a great point that you made because it is an often overlooked prophecy of Jesus as to the unlikely spread of the Gospels outside of the Jewish culture.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes, it is highly unusual and prophesied about by Jesus:



This was a great point that you made because it is an often overlooked prophecy of Jesus as to the unlikely spread of the Gospels outside of the Jewish culture.

Ah, thanks for putting that into context.

 

[CMike]

This is basically correct. In the Christian view, Christ is our Passover--just as the blood of the lambs anointing the doorposts of Hebrew homes marked the Hebrews as separate from the Egyptians, and just as Moses led his people to freedom from Egyptian slavery, so also the blood of Christ anointing our souls marks us as separate from the world, and Christ led us to freedom from sin and death. At the Passover celebration/Last Supper, Jesus said to celebrate the Eucharist in memory of Him, not in memory of Moses and the Exodus.

What an ego!!

I don't know what the eucharist is, however, Moses was known for his humbleness.

At Passover we read the entire story of Passover in detail. Moses had a central role, however, he is only mentioned once in the ritual retelling of the story, and only as a "humble servant.

Moses will be the greatest of all the prophets. However, he is best known for his humbleness.

It's actually rather insulting how he takes our holidays and traditions and makes them about him, instead of what they are intended to be about, which is G-D.

 

[Desert Snake]

[/color]



What an ego!!

I don't know what the eucharist is, however, Moses was known for his humbleness.

At Passover we read the entire story of Passover in detail. Moses had a central role, however, he is only mentioned once in the ritual retelling of the story, and only as a "humble servant.

Moses will be the greatest of all the prophets. However, he is best known for his humbleness.

It's actually rather insulting how he takes our holidays and traditions and makes them about him, instead of what they are intended to be about, which is G-D.

This is under the premise that Jesus was what, a rabbi? Or some man..and not an anthropomorphized Deity.

 

[metis]

If you know me by now, I am leading up to something, LOL. In order to follow along there is a prerequisite, Forget everything you ever heard about the New Testament and the Church. Start fresh. These Gospels read from a metaphoric understanding opens up a whole new meaning. These metaphors are drawn from Jewish scripture.

And from Jewish tradition as well as our writing style often was put in terms of metaphor and allegory, which is one reason why a literalist approach often misses the mark.

 

[Robert.Evans]

The understanding of the "Last Supper" and Passover is of utmost importance to the understanding of the “New Covenant”. Jesus and his motley crew did not get together that evening for an all-night poker game with beer and pretzels. The canonical Gospel writers had put a new spin on the Passover meal. This new spin ushered in the “New Covenant”. Without Passover there would not be any “Last Supper”. The Church down plays the significance of Passover. What’s up with that?

As someone has already said, Passover is incorporated into what we call Easter. As for the Passover lamb, that is Yahshuah, which I'm sure you know; that said, we are celebrating the Passover always, every time we mention him, not just Easter, every time we eat, or drink... When you do this, think of me.

 

[CMike]

As someone has already said, Passover is incorporated into what we call Easter. As for the Passover lamb, that is Yahshuah, which I'm sure you know; that said, we are celebrating the Passover always, every time we mention him, not just Easter, every time we eat, or drink... When you do this, think of me.

Actually what you are supposed to think about is G-D taking the jews out of Egypt and getting the Ten Commandments.

He really had a tremendous ego.

 

[Shiranui117]

What an ego!!

I don't know what the eucharist is, however, Moses was known for his humbleness.

As is Jesus. After all, He is God Who deigned to take on human flesh, be mocked, rejected, humiliated, and brutally executed.

And the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, given to us for the remission of sins and for life everlasting. It's explained in the Gospel of John, chapter 6.

At Passover we read the entire story of Passover in detail. Moses had a central role, however, he is only mentioned once in the ritual retelling of the story, and only as a "humble servant.

Moses will be the greatest of all the prophets. However, he is best known for his humbleness.

He is without a doubt the greatest of the prophets. With this I agree completely.

It's actually rather insulting how he takes our holidays and traditions and makes them about him, instead of what they are intended to be about, which is G-D.

Except in Christianity, Jesus is God. He doesn't take any glory away from God. Yet I know that you will not accept this, barring a miracle.

 

[Shiranui117]

Actually what you are supposed to think about is G-D taking the jews out of Egypt and getting the Ten Commandments.

He really had a tremendous ego.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Shavuot was about receiving the Ten Commandments?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Actually what you are supposed to think about is G-D taking the jews out of Egypt and getting the Ten Commandments.

He really had a tremendous ego.

Well this sort of sets up an argument doesn't it, which I am not getting into. Let us just say that that is what it is to you. I shall not expand on that as that might be seen as attacking you and your faith- which I have no problem with BTW. Who had a tremendous ego??

 

[Pegg]

Isn't there a verse that says something like Jesus chooses you, you don't choose Jesus?

yes, Jesus revealed that only those chosen by God will be born again. The reason they are 'born again' is that they are given 'new life' as spirit sons of God meaning they become like angels.

Jesus said that being born again is like hearing the wind. We dont know where the wind come from, nor where it goes hence we have no control over it. And likewise, we have no control over whether we are chosen to be born again either:

John 3:3 5 Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. 6 What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed because I told you: You people must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit.”


We cant decide that we will enter the 'kingdom of Heaven'....only God can decide if we enter that kingdom. And the scriptures reveal that only a small number of people are selected to be there.

 

[Desert Snake]

Did we figure out if they were celebrating Passover??.......................................................................

 

[Pegg]

Did we figure out if they were celebrating Passover??.......................................................................

Luke 22:14 So when the hour came, he reclined at the table along with the apostles. 15 And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I tell you, I will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.” 17 And accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: “Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves, 18 for I tell you, from now on, I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the Kingdom of God comes.”


I think thats a yes.

 

[Desert Snake]

Luke 22:14 So when the hour came, he reclined at the table along with the apostles. 15 And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I tell you, I will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God.” 17 And accepting a cup, he gave thanks and said: “Take this and pass it from one to the other among yourselves, 18 for I tell you, from now on, I will not drink again from the product of the vine until the Kingdom of God comes.”


I think thats a yes.

Was that earlier in the thread?
I mean, I thought so, they even figured out the time to a day or close to I think,,,thanx.

 

[InChrist]

The Israel of Jewish scripture shows an Israel that went astray. The Israel as Jesus shows an Israel that did not go astray.

The OT scriptures do show that while some individuals were faithful,Israel on a national level often went astray and the NT scriptures show that Jesus lived a perfect life in accordance with the Father's will. But this doesn't show that Israel and the Person of Jesus Christ are one and the same. In the scriptures Israel is always the literal nation of Israel and Jesus is always the Son of God, one with the Father.

 

[roger1440]

The OT scriptures do show that while some individuals were faithful,Israel on a national level often went astray and the NT scriptures show that Jesus lived a perfect life in accordance with the Father's will. But this doesn't show that Israel and the Person of Jesus Christ are one and the same. In the scriptures Israel is always the literal nation of Israel and Jesus is always the Son of God, one with the Father.

The Gospel of Matthew is the most Jewish Gospel of all the canonical Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). It quotes the Old Testament more than the other three. None of these Gospels would make any sense if the reader wasn’t well read with Jewish scripture. Therefore the starting MUST be Jewish scripture. Much of Jewish scripture uses poetry to convey its message. This poetry uses symbolism, allegory, and metaphors. The Gospels of the New Testament use the same literary style. There is no reason to interpret the Old Testament with metaphors and then the New Testament as literal. The metaphors of the Old Testament create the very foundation for the New Testament.