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Why does the Church pass over Passover?

D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
roger1440 said:
The Gospel of Matthew is the most Jewish Gospel of all the canonical Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). It quotes the Old Testament more than the other three. None of these Gospels would make any sense if the reader wasn’t well read with Jewish scripture. Therefore the starting MUST be Jewish scripture. Much of Jewish scripture uses poetry to convey its message. This poetry uses symbolism, allegory, and metaphors. The Gospels of the New Testament use the same literary style. There is no reason to interpret the Old Testament with metaphors and then the New Testament as literal. The metaphors of the Old Testament create the very foundation for the New Testament.
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You're getting Jewish mixed up with Judaism, although I would go further and say you could refer to Xianity as Israel as well as Judaism, ..same Bible. THeres a reason they added the N.T. to the O.T.

So we agree here basically, but you staed earlier the bible wasn't worth anything, didn't have value, whatever that Rabbi said, which itself I think was metaphor, doesn't have to mean abandon the OT
 
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roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
disciple said:
You're getting Jewish mixed up with Judaism, although I would go further and say you could refer to Xianity as Israel as well as Judaism, ..same Bible. THeres a reason they added the N.T. to the O.T.

So we agree here basically, but you staed earlier the bible wasn't worth anything, didn't have value, whatever that Rabbi said, which itself I think was metaphor, doesn't have to mean abandon the OT
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I don't remember stated that earlier. Where did I state that?
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
I don’t think there is cohesion among all 27 books of the New Testament. To put it another way, the books are not pulled together with a common thread. The message of Jesus in the canonical Gospels is not the same message of Paul. The canonical Gospels point to the Torah. Paul on the other hand points away from the Torah. This confusion would account for the thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations. The only common thread among all Churches and all the Gospels including the non-canonical Gospels is a crucified Christ. The million dollar question has been for over two millennium is, “What does a crucified Christ mean?”
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
disciple said:
Couldn't find it. Didn't you reference a Rabbi that stated as such, thr 'whole of the law' could be reduced to one statement.?
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Now I remember:

“Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot. Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."” (Hillel)
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Quote/hillel.html
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
roger1440 said:
I don’t think there is cohesion among all 27 books of the New Testament. To put it another way, the books are not pulled together with a common thread. The message of Jesus in the canonical Gospels is not the same message of Paul. The canonical Gospels point to the Torah. Paul on the other hand points away from the Torah. This confusion would account for the thousands upon thousands of Christian denominations. The only common thread among all Churches and all the Gospels including the non-canonical Gospels is a crucified Christ. The million dollar question has been for over two millennium is, “What does a crucified Christ mean?”
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I basically agree. I would include the Tora as necessary for a Bible compilation, but, really I have no problem with people who just want to start at the N.T., that's their prerogative.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
roger1440 said:
Now I remember:

“Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot. Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it."” (Hillel)
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Quote/hillel.html
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Yes that, my wording is bit off, you stated something to the effect of unnecessary, about baptism (!) bptism thread, that's where you posted that! anywho.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
disciple said:
That's vague and obtuse to an extent, far too relative to have much meaning to me.
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“And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to observe the LORD's commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good? To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today. Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 10:12-19)
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In both Judaism and Christianity one is required to have compassion for their fellow man.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
roger1440 said:
“And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to observe the LORD's commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good? To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today. Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.” (Deuteronomy 10:12-19)
​
In both Judaism and Christianity one is required to have compassion for their fellow man.
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That isn't what the Hillel statement was, in fact it isn't even close.
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
roger1440 said:
I think what Hillel meant how we relate to our fellow man reflects our relationship we have with God. Without compassion for our fellow man we have no relationship with God.
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Rabbi Hillel didn't mean it literally.

The man asked him to sum up the entire Torah standing on one leg.

There are still 613 commandments.
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
I'm with CMike. Hillel was explaining the principle that was the basis of the Torah and its commandments. The principle that the other Laws are derived from.

Compassion doesn't explain why I need to sit in a wooden hut on the Festival of Booths.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
roger1440 said:
I think what Hillel meant how we relate to our fellow man reflects our relationship we have with God. Without compassion for our fellow man we have no relationship with God.
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But the Hillel school did not teach that the other Commandments were unimportant.
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
disciple said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how you presented that to me? As literal? Cause it sure seemed like it..
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What part? Rabbi Hillel?

Rabbi Hillel certainly knew there are 613 commandments.

He was answers the guy's question about summarizing the Torah while on one leg.
 
Shiranui117

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Wasn't it Rabbi Hillel who said don't do unto others what you wouldn't want others to do to you?
 
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