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Why doesn’t God communicate directly to everyone?

stvdv

Veteran Member
15 jun 2018 stvdv 011 47
Curious question! I mean curious that anyone might think it possible a deity would take into consideration morals, virtues, beliefs, or some other human qualities and traits as sufficiently impressive grounds for a deity to decide who to communicate with.
Be nice then you get your candy brainwash from youth in mind I starting the spiritual quest doing my best to please God. That was so heavily rooted that God needed to ask me the impossible "fasting for 3 month on watermelon only, and if not bad enough start after 14h". I failed and realized "this is not how God works; no need to please".

Beyond that, is not the question a bit like thinking, when someone tells us that they love us, "I deserve it! I deserve that person's love
Love is unconditional. If we need God then God is there. But as with "erotic beauties" if you keep your heart closed the magic can't happen.

In the West, god speaks, communicating something of importance, and one goes on to become a prophet. In the East, god does not speak, overtly communicates mostly nothing of importance, and yet is wholly changed by the experience, and goes on to become an enlightened person.
Tricky to distinguish what is real.
In the East some are "dumb" and they are smart not to tell others, so others think he is enlightened;)
In the West some think they are smart and start preaching, many are "deaf" enough to believe them:p
 
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BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?

The question is moot. God DOES communicate to all. From Romans 1: " . . . Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

However, the Bible explains that due to sin, God sparsely communicates with individuals. Anyone who seeks truth will find God for communications--is what the Bible further says.
 

Ostronomos

Well-Known Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?


The reason only a select few have access to God by direct communication is because that realm is exclusive and it is randomly selected to have the power to communicate by one's genetic code or the means by which one can enter that world. Or so it was with me.
 

Apologes

Active Member
Your atheist friend is deluded and self-entitled. Ask him what did he do to deserve such a right as to demand the greatest conceivable being to communicate to him in the way in which he most prefers?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Well it would be damn annoying if a friend told about me to another friend saying maybe we should all meet up and the other friend would say they don't believe in me. It might just be I'm not going to show up.
Tell you what... if you can invite me along to a get together between you and God, so that I can actually meet Him, I'd literally be forced to believe. Which is exactly what your friend could do to convince your other friend... inviting her along so that she can meet you is a possibility that literally exists, and is not that hard to pull off. My hunch, however, is that you setting up a meeting with God is IMPOSSIBLE for you to pull off. Why is that? According to your analogy, aren't you two friends?
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?
I don't believe in the existence of God... so I don't pretend to deserve or expect anything from Him.

The ONLY way I can be convinced is by some real intervention in my personal life that is inter-subjectively verifiable and directly attributable to God. That's it. That's what it's going to take. End of story. I don't feel I deserve it... I don't expect it. I literally believe that such an event CAN'T HAPPEN.

That's likely the position this other atheist you talk about also takes, but he likely brought up the idea that God should communicate directly to everyone as a very simple way to display that, if He truly wanted to, God could make everyone believers. And I would agree that under these conditions:

1. God loves all people
2. God wants everyone to return to Him
3. God does not let people who don't believe in Him return to Him.
4. God has the power to accomplish just about anything or literally everything
5. God wants to be at all fair in his dealings with humans, and not give certain humans advantage over others (see #1)

... given those conditions, yes - yes it DOES make sense that God SHOULD appear to everyone. Short of that, it is proven that if He exists, He doesn't care all that much, and according to the written documentation, He doesn't mind playing favorites.

Look at it this way. I COULD NOT GIVE ONE FLYING CRAP whether or not I have a relationship with God. I literally do not care. There is not one shred of my being that needs whatever that relationship supposedly is, nor is there anything I feel I could benefit from such a relationship, given what I can perceive of God's activity in the place I dwell (a place I like to call "reality"). I don't care. Don't need it. Don't want it. Couldn't care any less. SO... if God wants a relationship with me... He has to come to me. Note - I am not saying I want/desire/need/care/give-a-crap/etc. - that's NOT what I am saying. I am saying GOD HAS NO CHOICE TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME unless He seeks it, and I comply. Done.
 
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Koldo

Outstanding Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?

I disagree with your friend when he says God should communicate directly with everyone, but I agree with him when he says it is a lame*** excuse. It is.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
A portion of the human population is incapable of visualizing. That is, if you ask them to close their eyes and picture an apple, they can't do it. It doesn't matter how much they want to do it, or how much someone else coaches them on the methods of visualization. Their brains are incapable of doing it. They might even believe the ability to visualize is a fabrication. After all, if they can't visualize, the other people who claim they can visualize must be mistaken.

Similarly, some portion of the population is incapable of communicating with the gods. They are god-blind.


Sometimes, it isn't a matter of what one deserves or doesn't deserve. It's a matter of what one is
capable of.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
A portion of the human population is incapable of visualizing. That is, if you ask them to close their eyes and picture an apple, they can't do it. It doesn't matter how much they want to do it, or how much someone else coaches them on the methods of visualization. Their brains are incapable of doing it. They might even believe the ability to visualize is a fabrication. After all, if they can't visualize, the other people who claim they can visualize must be mistaken.

Similarly, some portion of the population is incapable of communicating with the gods. They are god-blind.


Sometimes, it isn't a matter of what one deserves or doesn't deserve. It's a matter of what one is
capable of.

What exactly does 'communicating with the gods' mean in this context ?
Coming from you it can mean so many different things.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?
Another reason for not communicating to everyone is that there are prophets. They indirectly connect people to their maker so that people can be themselves but receive a little help.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
deserve to know that God exists
How to you decide who deserves and who doesn't?
using their own innate powers of reasoning
Self reasoning is the most devastating force humans have.
This is one of the reasons many atheist find religions to be very dangerous.
in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.
And the million dollar question is: How do you know?
What if people like Charles Manson are the ones worthy of god?
Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse
I wouldn't use the word lame, but it is clearly a bad argument.
and he says it is just common sense
Lol.. common by who? i think this atheist doesn't understand what common sense means.
that God should communicate directly to everyone.
If there is a god, i assume the word should doesn't really apply.
What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?
I think people should stop searching for answers from places they cannot get them :)
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
What exactly does 'communicating with the gods' mean in this context ?
Coming from you it can mean so many different things.

A fair question! I didn't have any particular sense in mind when I was writing that post, but I read this article yesterday - Conversations Under the Oaks: June Q&A - which happened to talk about both aphantasia (the inability to visualize) and communicating with the gods. I'd forgotten aphantasia was a thing until this article reminded me of it. Aphantasia was noted more than a century ago, but it's only recently that it's been the subject of scientific investigation.

Visualization is one way folks communicate with the gods (there are things like guided meditations with imagery designed to prompt these mystical experiences, for example), so if aphantasia is a thing, it's not a big leap to speculate that god-blindness is a thing. But the method of communication could be something else, too. It depends on a lot on the tradition you're looking at. After reading the article I linked to above, I also re-read this one - When You Can’t Experience the Gods for Yourself - and I think it has some relevant points for this too:

"Western culture is still heavily dominated by Christianity. It teaches that there is only one God, who is primarily concerned with what you believe. It tells us to put our faith in ancient writings about other people’s experiences, and insists that asking for our own experience shows a lack of faith.

...

Another part of our mainstream culture tells us that people who experience Gods and spirits first-hand are primitive, backward, and superstitious. Much of this religious prejudice is intertwined with racism and classism – ways the mainstream tells itself it’s superior to “those people” and pressures us to conform."

I think the writer's analysis a bit lacking, but the general of cultural obstacles to experiencing the gods (which is a form of the gods communicating with us) is a valid one. On the one hand, we have Christian norms which tend to discourage folks from having their own mystical experiences. On the other hand, we have the Enlightenment saying that any and all such experiences are rubbish. Combine the two and you have a hostile cultural environment to divine communications. The communications still happen, but our cultural narratives prompt us to interpret these experiences as either coming from demons or coming from insanity. In either instance, we're taught to dismiss rather than examine these experiences.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?


That depends. Does this god want/expect people to believe that this god exists? If the answer is yes, then yes, this god does have an obligation to reveal itself to everyone. If this god doesn't care if anyone believes that it exists, then this god is doing a wonderful job of making that possible.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?

I know of several people god talks to, he tells them them who is a real Christian and who isn't, which parts of the bible to read and which parts not to read, that all atheists are evil, and many other things that interestingly enough they would think anyway without god talking to them. But god tell them so it makes it true.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Gods do communicate with lots of people. The case of those who never experience a god can be explained by various possible explations, such as
1. They've blocked out the gods out through subconscious resitance.
2. The gods have decided that this particular person will do better left to fend for themself.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
On another forum I said: “One reason God does not communicate to everyone is because everyone does not deserve to know that God exists.” I said that people have to be willing to sincerely search for God using their own innate powers of reasoning in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.

Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse and he says it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone.

This is what he has been saying to me for over three years. Everyone (all of the 7.4 billion people in the world) should get direct communication from God. God should not use Messengers because not everyone believes in them, especially in the beginning, when they first show up on earth.

What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?

What makes one more deserving than another???
If there is a god, and he is all-knowing, then he knows exactly what each and every person needs to believe in it's existence. The onus is on the god to either provide the necessary evidence or not. If he is selectively choosing who to communicate his presence with, then it is out of human's hands. Furthermore, if he deliberately withholds this information, it is not the fault of the human that the god decided to stiff him.

On a broader view.....there is absolutely no way for a "mere mortal" to verify the truthfulness of a "god". He can lie through his teeth and you would have no way of knowing.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Gods do communicate with lots of people. The case of those who never experience a god can be explained by various possible explations, such as
1. They've blocked out the gods out through subconscious resitance.
2. The gods have decided that this particular person will do better left to fend for themself.

You left out some possibilities.
1. The god(s) do not actually exist.
2. The god(s) are dicks and are just messing with people's heads for fun.
3. The god(s) are evil and are feeding select gullible people lies.

There are many more possibilities.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
To my way of thinking God owes us nothing, and we owe him everything....even our very existence.

It was humans who cut themselves off from God, not the other way around.

In 2 Chronicles 15:1-2 God's prophet Azariah was inspired to counsel King Asa. It says..."Then the Spirit of God came upon Azariah son of Oded, 2 and he went out to meet King Asa as he was returning from the battle. “Listen to me, Asa!” he shouted. “Listen, all you people of Judah and Benjamin! The Lord will stay with you as long as you stay with him! Whenever you seek him, you will find him. But if you abandon him, he will abandon you."

Those who genuinely seek God will find him, those who want excuses not to find him, will also succeed.
sad0008.gif
All very true. :)

Thanks for those verses, those are new to me... Those are wonderful and sooooo true.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Are these mutually exclusive? And if searching makes one deserving, how come your religion has only one to whom direct revelation was made? I mean God doesn't talk directly to you, does He? And you believe this not because it was directly revealed to you, nor because you searched for the truth independently, but because you have been told by someone that it was revealed to some other person. Correct? I have searched for almost 5 decades, often misguidedly (it seems to me now) but generally (at least more recently) independently (although one can easily be bamboozled by smart words and clever explanations so cannot be entirely sure of independence) and come to an entirely different conclusion about God's existence. In what way am I less deserving of direct revelation? Is it just because "I don't get it"? Am I just too stupid? Would it help me if I could read ancient Hebrew or 19th century Persian? How does hapless human searching make the difference unless one happens to stumble upon "the truth"? And how does that make someone more "deserving" than another?
They are mutually exclusive in the sense that if God communicate to everyone God would not need to send a Messenger, but if God sends a Messenger then God does not have to communicate to anyone else. People can search out the Messenger and (a) find out God exists and (b) get the message God revealed.

The reason my religion and all the others have only one Person to whom direct revelation was made is that a Manifestation of God is not an ordinary person.

A Manifestation of God is human, but more than a human. He has a human nature is so He can communicate to humans and act as a mediator, but He also has a universal divine mind, which is beyond the reach of our understanding. We can understand His human side, but not His divine side.

Only the Holy Manifestations of God have a universal divine mind, heavenly intellectual power, which is beyond nature, embraces things and is cognizant of things, knows them, understands them, is aware of mysteries, realities and divine significations. A portion and share of this power comes to the righteous man through the Holy Manifestations.

No, God does not talk directly to anyone but rather only communicates to the Manifestations through the Holy Spirit. No, I do not believe Baha’u’llah got a message from God because I was told by someone that He got a message. I believe because I read His Writings. I also read about the life and mission of Baha’u’llah. So essentially, by checking Him out, I verified the veracity of His Claim to “be” a Messenger of God. I also read books about the Baha’i Faith, what it teaches, and the history of the Baha’i Faith.

It is not a matter of you being “less deserving” than a Manifestation of God. It is a matter of how God communicates and to whom. You do not have a universal divine mind so you would be unable to understand a direct revelation from God.

The question was hypothetical: Does everyone on earth deserve their own personal message from God or should everyone be required to search out the Messengers? The reason I posted this is because for over three years an atheist I post to on other forums has been insisting that if “a real God” existed, He would communicate directly to everyone on earth rather than use Messengers. (The fact that nobody could even understand God if God communicated to them is a side issue.)

It certainly does not sound like you are stupid... It sounds like you are very sincere and you have done ample searching, having met the requirement of a true seeker. God does not expect any more than that.

Why is it that some people search their whole lifetime and never find what they need to believe in God? It could be because they are looking in the wrong places,at religions that are old and don’t even make sense for the modern day, religions that don’t even have any verifiable evidence to support the claims of their Messengers. Of course I am a bit biased because I am a Baha’i, but IMO it is the only religion that makes any sense to put one’s faith in. I would have been an agnostic or maybe a deist had I never stumbled upon the Baha’i Faith.

I was not even looking for a religion and I had no interest in God when I stumbled upon the Baha’i Faith. Why is it that within two weeks I knew it was the Truth whereas it takes other people years to determine that and some never do? I think it is a mystery, but it is in the Baha’i Writings that God guides certain people.

“Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Day Star of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God’s Will, than all,except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless.” Gleanings, p. 11

“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!” Gleanings, p. 39

However, it also says that people who make efforts will be guided... The caveat is that we cannot know if we are one of those people who were guided until we actually “become” a Baha’i.

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings, pp. 266-267

Effort is very important so why would it not also apply to “searching” for God?

“The incomparable Creator hath created all men from one same substance, and hath exalted their reality above the rest of His creatures. Success or failure, gain or loss, must, therefore, depend upon man’s own exertions. The more he striveth, the greater will be his progress.”
Gleanings, pp. 81-82

In the following passage it indicates that those who rebel against God will not be guided, which makes sense because God does not override free will to MAKE the rebellious believe in Him.

"Some were guided by the Light of God, gained admittance into the court of His presence, and quaffed, from the hand of resignation, the waters of everlasting life, and were accounted of them that have truly recognized and believed in Him. Others rebelled against Him, and rejected the signs of God, the Most Powerful, the Almighty, the All-Wise.Gleanings, p. 145

So, in the case of this atheist who I referred to in the OP, he would have to make a free will decision to consider the “possibility” that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God and then do some research. If he continues to insist that direct communication to him is the only way he will ever believe in God, then he will never believe in God. God is not going to come chasing after him.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well, ignoring the fact that god doesn't exist. Which is the reason he/she doesn't communicate directly.

I have to say that communication in the 21st Century is so easy. Even Emperor Trump who is semi literate tweets. There is 24-hour news, the internet, etc, etc.

So yes, god should make an effort, you never know the number of followers may then increase.
Obviously, you are correct, that a god that doesn’t exist cannot communicate directly, but just because God does not communicate directly to everyone does not mean God does not exist.

I guess you are in the same camp with my atheist friend on the other forum. I will tell you what I have been telling him for about three years. God does not make efforts to obtain followers because God does not need anyone’s belief.It is only for our sake that God wants us to believe in Him. According to Baha’u’llah...

“This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.”
Gleanings, p. 136

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.”
Gleanings, p. 140

The other reason God does not make such efforts (even though an omnipotent God could if He wanted to) is that God wants everyone to use their own free will to choose to believe in Him or not. God would not have given man free will if He had planned on controlling their decisions. :)

By the by, I have not forgotten that I promised to respond to your post on the other thread #112 regarding evidence but it does not sound much like you are interested in that. Let me know if you are.
 
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