Why doesn’t God communicate directly to everyone?

[Trailblazer]

Firstly God does communicate with everyone, it is the CPU processing our reality...

Because Judaism thought they needed prophets, and Hinduism thought we need to have Rishi, Gurus, and Yogi to hear God it has been standardized by many.

With meditation where we learn to listen to the inner voices, then we realize we do hear God, angels, satan (accuser angel), and by developing that skill we can be guided.

Cannabis is also a large contributing factor in the past religions (Zoroastrian - Hoama, Hindu - Soma, Hebraic - Kaneh Bosem) which allows for inner connection, and deeper meditation.

We now tho in our modern society call people who literally hear God schizophrenics, and yet it was sort of understood even in Greek philosophy...

That we have a daimon and muses, genius (God in us) who guide us; so wrote this poem summarizing how people miss listening properly:

Listen Within

In my opinion.

I agree that some people can get some kind of communication from God, call it inner awareness or whatever. However, I do not think that is possible for everyone, even if they make an effort. However, if they do not even make the effort, they will never know.

The other thing I would like to add is that just because someone “believed” they got some kind of communication from God does not mean they actually did.

The other think I would like to add is that even if people could all get some kind of communication from God, we would still need Prophets to reveal the messages that have teachings and laws pertinent to all of humanity.

 

[Trailblazer]

They didn't believe me when I spoke to them ........

They never do...

 

[Trailblazer]

Everyone deserves direct communication from God. I am sure about that.

But you can't blame God when you cut the communication line yourself.

I do not believe anyone deserves to get anything from God.... Rather, we should just be grateful for what we get.

I do not believe that the Almighty God communicates with anyone except His Messengers, and even then it is not direct, it is through the Holy Spirit.

IMB

 

[Trailblazer]

I wouldn't say that everyone "deserves" direct communication from God (if God even exists), but I don't think people just sit back and do nothing either. Many people search for God and make honest attempts to communicate with God, only to get nothing in return.

I would also say that if a person doesn't receive direct communication from God, then they're off the hook as far as being required to follow anything deemed to be "God's word." I don't feel bound or required to follow the words of any messenger or holy book, since God never told me directly to do so.

If people make attempts to communicate with God they should not expect to get anything back, because God does not communicate directly with anyone except His Messengers.

God does not speak to anyone directly. That is simply not God’s Method of communicating, it never has been. You might not “feel” bound or required to follow the words of any messenger or holy book, but that does not mean that you won’t suffer the consequences of being unwilling to do so. All human actions and in-actions have consequences. There are rewards and punishments in this life and the next.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339

 

[Trailblazer]

Not deserve. I dont understand why anyone would be required to believe in communication with god. No. I dont see anyone being required to believe. Both views got people killed throughout history. Stop reinventing the wheel.

No, I do not believe that anyone is required to believe in God. It has to be a free choice.

If a person Does not believe in god and/or is not naturally, not by effort (counterproductive), open to it, he has no means to search. Its like asking if he should search for an elephant in the middle of a haystack. He has no grudges on those who believe it, but if his observation, study, and heart tells him otherwise, why would we expect the elephant to just show up or say he is required to search for what he knows does not exist? To me, thats silly.

That is not the case with the atheist I referred to in the OP. He is “open” to the possibility that God exists but he will only accept communication from God on his own terms – it is direct communication from God to him or nothing.

Instead, there are many people naturally open to spiritual experiences. One man's great experience is another persons evidence of gods work. He may have experience what He may define as god but, no, god isnt required to communicate to him to prove this and no, unless he wanted, he shouldnt be required to search.

It must be something he wants to and be open to do not something he is pressured, coerced, or say he is required to do.

I can agree with that God is not required to communicate and nobody is required to search. However, if they do not search, they will not find... God can afford to dispense with those who do not want to search and find Him. God does not need their belief. God does not need anything from anyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your atheist friend is deluded and self-entitled. Ask him what did he do to deserve such a right as to demand the greatest conceivable being to communicate to him in the way in which he most prefers?

MY feelings exactly... I could not have said it better myself.

I could ask him what he did to deserve such a right but I already know what he will say. He will say I am just making lame-*** excuses for god and that it is just common sense that God should communicate directly to everyone. In other words, he will just dodge the bullet.

My question to you is why I am still posting to him after over three years of listening to the same old complaints about the lazy incompetent god who doesn’t know how to communicate properly...

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe in the existence of God... so I don't pretend to deserve or expect anything from Him.

The ONLY way I can be convinced is by some real intervention in my personal life that is inter-subjectively verifiable and directly attributable to God. That's it. That's what it's going to take. End of story. I don't feel I deserve it... I don't expect it. I literally believe that such an event CAN'T HAPPEN.

Well, good for you. I mean that in all sincerity. Nobody should think they deserve or expect anything from God.

Some real intervention in your personal life that is inter-subjectively verifiable and directly attributable to God is a possibility. I know that because I know atheists to whom it happened and they are now the most faithful believers.

How did this happen to them? Well, as their stories go they had been atheists their entire lives and it finally came to a point where they felt a need for God... They cried out and God answered their call by providing proof. I had a similar experience, the difference being I already half believed that God existed before my experience; but after that experience I knew for certain, so now I am in it for the long haul.

That's likely the position this other atheist you talk about also takes, but he likely brought up the idea that God should communicate directly to everyone as a very simple way to display that, if He truly wanted to, God could make everyone believers. And I would agree that under these conditions:

1. God loves all people
2. God wants everyone to return to Him
3. God does not let people who don't believe in Him return to Him.
4. God has the power to accomplish just about anything or literally everything
5. God wants to be at all fair in his dealings with humans, and not give certain humans advantage over others (see #1)

... given those conditions, yes - yes it DOES make sense that God SHOULD appear to everyone. Short of that, it is proven that if He exists, He doesn't care all that much, and according to the written documentation, He doesn't mind playing favorites.

All those conditions are true, but God does not give anyone an unfair advantage. By sending a Messenger that everyone can recognize God levels the playing field. It really is the only way to play a fair game. One has to prove their desire to know if God exists by being willing to do the homework God assigns, searching out and then researching His Messenger.Nothing in this life that is worth having comes without effort. Why should knowledge of God be any different?

If God communicated directly to everyone some of those people would be undeserving of knowing God exists, they would be unworthy. Some of them might not even care if God exists, so why should God communicate to them if they do not even care about God?

God does not care if you believe in Him for His sake, only for your sake.

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 140

God does not need you or your belief, but God will still love you, because God loves everyone, believers and nonbelievers.

Look at it this way. I COULD NOT GIVE ONE FLYING CRAP whether or not I have a relationship with God. I literally do not care. There is not one shred of my being that needs whatever that relationship supposedly is, nor is there anything I feel I could benefit from such a relationship, given what I can perceive of God's activity in the place I dwell (a place I like to call "reality"). I don't care. Don't need it. Don't want it. Couldn't care any less. SO... if God wants a relationship with me... He has to come to me. Note - I am not saying I want/desire/need/care/give-a-crap/etc. - that's NOT what I am saying. I am saying GOD HAS NO CHOICE TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME unless He seeks it, and I comply. Done.

Contrary to what some Christians believe, God will never come after you for a relationship because God has no need for a relationship with any of His creatures. In fact, God could just as easily dispense with all of them, IF He did not love them.

“Your Lord, the God of mercy, can well dispense with all creatures. Nothing whatever can either increase or diminish the things He doth possess. If ye believe, to your own behoof will ye believe; and if ye believe not, ye yourselves will suffer.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 148

The proof that God loves us is that God does not dispense with us:

3: O SON OF MAN! Veiled in My immemorial being and in the ancient eternity of My essence, I knew My love for thee; therefore I created thee, have engraved on thee Mine image and revealed to thee My beauty.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

Your attitude, which is not too dissimilar to the attitude of my atheist friend in the OP is precisely WHY you will never have a relationship with God. God has zero interest in having a relationship with someone who COULD NOT GIVE ONE FLYING CRAP whether or not He even exists.

God’s Love is like a channel that has to be open at both ends, your end and His end, in order to flow. If you do not even care if you have a relationship with God, God’s Love can never reach you.

4: O SON OF MAN! I loved thy creation, hence I created thee. Wherefore, do thou love Me, that I may name thy name and fill thy soul with the spirit of life.
5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovestMe not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree with your friend when he says God should communicate directly with everyone, but I agree with him when he says it is a lame*** excuse. It is.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Are you saying that God should communicate directly to certain people but not to everyone?

What is the lame-*** excuse you agree with? Does God need an excuse for how He communicates to humanity? If so, why?

 

[Trailblazer]

A portion of the human population is incapable of visualizing. That is, if you ask them to close their eyes and picture an apple, they can't do it. It doesn't matter how much they want to do it, or how much someone else coaches them on the methods of visualization. Their brains are incapable of doing it. They might even believe the ability to visualize is a fabrication. After all, if they can't visualize, the other people who claim they can visualize must be mistaken.

Similarly, some portion of the population is incapable of communicating with the gods. They are god-blind.

Sometimes, it isn't a matter of what one deserves or doesn't deserve. It's a matter of what one is capable of.

So, do you think that some people can communicate with God(s)? I surely can pray to God; the question is can God answer back in some manner I can recognize?

However, the OP was about God communicating with people directly.Does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?

Surely an omnipotent God is capable of communicating directly but that does not mean everyone deserves direct communication from God

Also there is the question of whether anyone is capable of understanding what God would communicate to them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Another reason for not communicating to everyone is that there are prophets. They indirectly connect people to their maker so that people can be themselves but receive a little help.

Yes, that is the reason we do not need direct communication from God to everyone. We get exactly what we need from the Prophets.

 

[Trailblazer]

“deserve to know that God exists”
How to you decide who deserves and who doesn't?

I do not decide, people decide for themselves by making themselves worthy.

“using their own innate powers of reasoning”
Self reasoning is the most devastating force humans have.
This is one of the reasons many atheist find religions to be very dangerous.

I am not sure what you mean by self-reasoning. What I meant is that we have to use our reasoning abilities.

“in order to be worthy of knowing God exists, rather than just sitting back and doing nothing, waiting for God to communicate to them.”
And the million dollar question is: How do you know?
What if people like Charles Manson are the ones worthy of god?

People prove themselves worthy by doing what is necessary to determine if God exists, searching for evidence, exerting an effort.

If God communicated directly with everyone, people who are not worthy would get communication from God.

“Then this one atheist said that was a lame-*** excuse”
I wouldn't use the word lame, but it is clearly a bad argument.

Why is it a bad argument?

“and he says it is just common sense”
Lol..common by who? i think this atheist doesn't understand what common sense means.

Common to who indeed... His definition of common sense if what he thinks is common sense.

“that God should communicate directly to everyone.”
If there is a god, i assume the word should doesn't really apply.

You are batting a thousand.
Of course we cannot put a“should” on God.

“What do you think; does everyone on earth deserve direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?”
I think people should stop searching for answers from places they cannot get them.

I agree...People who think that god, if god exists, should communicate directly are looking for something they will never get. It is as if they are waiting at an abandoned train station for a train to come in.

Why talk constantly for three years on a forum about something you can never have? If I was an atheist, I would be off sunning myself on a beach somewhere, not talking about a nonexistent god and how he is required to communicate with humans.

 

[Trailblazer]

That depends. Does this god want/expect people to believe that this god exists? If the answer is yes, then yes, this god does have an obligation to reveal itself to everyone. If this god doesn't care if anyone believes that it exists, then this god is doing a wonderful job of making that possible.

God wants but does not expect everyone to believe that He exists.

God cares, but not enough to override human free will by revealing Himself directly to everyone. Belief has to be a choice people make. If God forces Himself upon people it is no longer a choice.

An Almighty God is not bartering with humans on His Method of communication. It is what it is and always has been. Those who are unwilling to look at the Messenger God sends will just slip through the cracks.

 

[Altfish]

Obviously, you are correct, that a god that doesn’t exist cannot communicate directly, but just because God does not communicate directly to everyone does not mean God does not exist.

I guess you are in the same camp with my atheist friend on the other forum. I will tell you what I have been telling him for about three years. God does not make efforts to obtain followers because God does not need anyone’s belief.It is only for our sake that God wants us to believe in Him. According to Baha’u’llah...

“This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 136

“Consider the mercy of God and His gifts. He enjoineth upon you that which shall profit you, though He Himself can well dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings, p. 140

The other reason God does not make such efforts (even though an omnipotent God could if He wanted to) is that God wants everyone to use their own free will to choose to believe in Him or not. God would not have given man free will if He had planned on controlling their decisions.

By the by, I have not forgotten that I promised to respond to your post on the other thread #112 regarding evidence but it does not sound much like you are interested in that. Let me know if you are.

You obviously know a lot more about god than I do.
I am interested in evidence because the existence of a supreme being (or not) would be so mind blowing and if the evidence is believable and solid you may convert me to a believer.

I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Trailblazer]

I know of several people god talks to, he tells them them who is a real Christian and who isn't, which parts of the bible to read and which parts not to read, that all atheists are evil, and many other things that interestingly enough they would think anyway without god talking to them. But god tell them so it makes it true.

God does not talk directly to anyone, except His chosen Messengers. They are a “Protected Source” of information upon which we can all draw and get the same information. This makes logical sense.

You raise a very good point. Can you imagine what would happen if God did talk to everyone? Being fallible creatures, people would distort the message.

One reason I know that God does not talk to the Christians through the Holy Spirit, as they believe, is because of the “ungodly things” they say that God told them, things the Real God would never say. God would never tell a Christian who is a real Christian and who isn't. God would never say that all atheists are evil. God loves all His creatures.

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light." ('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)
Non-believers - Bahai9

 

[Trailblazer]

Gods do communicate with lots of people. The case of those who never experience a god can be explained by various possible explations, such as
1. They've blocked out the gods out through subconscious resitance.
2. The gods have decided that this particular person will do better left to fend for themself.

I believe that God might communicate with some people in some way, although I do not think anyone can ever prove God communicated to them...

But the context of my OP was whether God should communicate directly with everyone in order to prove that He exists to atheists.

The question was whether everyone on earth deserves direct communication from God or should people be required to search for God themselves?

 

[Trailblazer]

What makes one more deserving than another???

The one who makes the sincere effort to search for God and determine if God exists is the one who is deserving.

If there is a god, and he is all-knowing, then he knows exactly what each and every person needs to believe in it's existence. The onus is on the god to either provide the necessary evidence or not. If he is selectively choosing who to communicate his presence with, then it is out of human's hands. Furthermore, if he deliberately withholds this information, it is not the fault of the human that the god decided to stiff him.

God does not run a catering company that caters to individuals. Everyone has access to the same communication from the Messenger so nobody gets stiffed. Everything we need to know and are capable of understanding in any age in history is revealed. Nothing is withheld.

It is entirely in the hands of the humans because everyone can choose to believe what the Messenger wrote or not or not.

On a broader view.....there is absolutely no way for a "mere mortal" to verify the truthfulness of a "god". He can lie through his teeth and you would have no way of knowing.

You are correct, because God does not communicate directly to mere mortals. God only communicates to His Chosen Messengers because they have a universal divine mind and heavenly intellectual power which is beyond nature. It embraces things and is cognizant of things, knows them, understands them, is aware of mysteries, realities and divine significations.

So all we can do is try to verify the truthfulness of the Messenger of God. Since His Will is identical with the Will of God, if He is telling the Truth then we can know the Truth about God. It is that simple.

 

[Trailblazer]

You left out some possibilities.
1. The god(s) do not actually exist.
2. The god(s) are dicks and are just messing with people's heads for fun.
3. The god(s) are evil and are feeding select gullible people lies.

There are many more possibilities.

There are only three the logical possibilities given the empirical evidence:

1. God exists and communicates using Messengers (theist), or
2. God exists and does not communicate at all (deist), or
3. God does not exist (atheist)

You pick. Any more of those is as logical as the other one.

 

[Trailblazer]

You obviously know a lot more about god than I do.

I know as much as we are allowed to know and I believe it is accurate information. That is very important because it is probably better not to believe in God at all if one believes in what is not real. That is why I always say it is probably better that agnostics remain agnostics until they find the one true God.

I am interested in evidence because the existence of a supreme being (or not) would be so mind blowing and if the evidence is believable and solid you may convert me to a believer.

Okay, I am game if you are.
I am not into converting people but I cannot say I would be unhappy if someone believed what I do because of course I really believe it is from God and that is no small thing...

I do not want to mess up, so just ask me what you want to ask me and I will do my best to answer your questions... I cannot say that understanding my religion is that easy, I have discovered that by talking to so many people, but it is not impossible and once someone understands the basics they can build on that... I am still learning after many, many years, there is just so much to know.

Let me just say one thing... The reason I came to believe in my religion was not emotional... I came to it by way of logical reasoning and once I grasped the concepts I could never go back to being a nonbeliever. Even though I do tend to get mad at God on occasion I try to keep that separate from what is logical and sound reasoning regarding the religion itself. I cannot say you will view it that way, we are all so different in our reasoning and the backgrounds we come from. For example, I was not raised in any religion such as Christianity so I did not have confirmation bias. I just saw the Baha'i Faith for what it was.

I'm not holding my breath.

Nor am I. I just do what I can and then it is in God's Hands.

 

[ChristineM]

God does not talk directly to anyone, except His chosen Messengers. They are a “Protected Source” of information upon which we can all draw and get the same information. This makes logical sense.

You raise a very good point. Can you imagine what would happen if God did talk to everyone? Being fallible creatures, people would distort the message.

One reason I know that God does not talk to the Christians through the Holy Spirit, as they believe, is because of the “ungodly things” they say that God told them, things the Real God would never say. God would never tell a Christian who is a real Christian and who isn't. God would never say that all atheists are evil. God loves all His creatures.

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light." ('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)
Non-believers - Bahai9

I'm sure there are many out there who disagree with you. On another forum I know of a thief who claims god tells him he is forgiven.

I have seen one or few posters on this forum clamming god speaks to them.

Nope it makes no sense other than to those who think conformation bias is logic.

People do distort the message they think god tells them, many religious wars are fought of such distortion.

You know? Schizophrenia is a very invasive illness, approximately 10% of the worlds population suffer it (or similar) during their lifetime, are you speaking for them?

And you are making decisions for your god belief here. I find that disturbing

 

[wizanda]

we would still need Prophets to reveal the messages that have teachings and laws pertinent to all of humanity.

As you just mentioned, just because they "believed" they had some communication from God, doesn't mean they did...

If God wanted us to have a Law book, it would be installed into our operating system; not declared in only one language, millions of years after creation.

The prophets are telling us we're already going the wrong way, and here are the consequences they've foreseen.

In my opinion.