Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering?

[Storm]

It's not the same thing, and you know it.

Are you really trying to tell me that you don't find the idea of God monitoring your every thought with the intention of striking you down if you have one He disapproves of, doesn't horrify you?

 

[Father Heathen]

Besides, any good parent knows that at some point, you have to let your children make their own mistakes. They'll never grow up if you don't. Which brings us back to my original point.

But good parents also try to guide and raise their children to be decent human beings, so kind of a bad comparision. And there is a big difference between letting your child make and learn from their mistakes, and aiding and abiding their crimes against the innocent.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's not the same thing, and you know it.

How? The actions are the same, we're just interchanging cops, judges and god.

Are you really trying to tell me that you don't find the idea of God monitoring your every thought with the intention of striking you down if you have one He disapproves of, doesn't horrify you?

But being omnipotent and omnipresent, he would know what's going on in our heads anyway. And no, not thoughts. Acting upon those thoughts.

 

[Storm]

*shudders* I'm beginning to creep myself out.

 

[StripperClown]

I can be creepy. May I help?

 

[Beaudreaux]

God has called EACH of us to be an instrument of peace on this world. We are obviously not getting the job done.

Plagues, Tsunami and Hurricanes occur because we are not being instruments of peace?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Stepford does not appeal to me.

ETA an on-topic funny: Mr. Deity & The Evil Enjoy!

that.....was.....BRILLIANT! If anyone skipped this video, I urge you to take a look. It's really funny and does a great job illustrating the question we are discussing. Nice one, Storm!

 

[Storm]

Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Beaudreaux]

The Golden Rule comes to mind.

What if I'm a masochist? or into scat?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Originally Posted by Beaudreaux
Let me practise active lisetening hear by summarizing your thoughts.

So, because Adam and Eve rebelled against God, God put humanity into thousands of years of suffering. God is essentially punishing the child who dies of AIDS for the rebellion of Adam and Eve. While this may seem...well.... less than charitable, we must understand that God doesn't see it that way because thousands of years of human suffering and death doesn't seem like long at all to him.

Do I have this right?

Not exactly....Galatians 6:7, Acts 24:15, Isaiah 65:17 and Revelation 21:4,5

Let's take a look at these and try to understand your viewpoint. I would ask in the future that you cut and past the content of these verses from Biblegateway.com for the convenience of readers.

Galatians 6:7
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Acts 24:15

4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
15and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


Isaiah 65:17
17 "Behold, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.


Revelation 21:4,5
4He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." 5He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

OK, I am really confused now. Galations seems to say that men will reap what they sow. Are you making the point that victims of natural disasters somehow deserved what they got?

Your passage from Acts says that all will be resurrected, both the righteous and the wicked. This seems in direct opposition to your Galations passage. Also, are you saying that all will go to heaven and be rewarded? Even the "wicked"?

I am not sure of the context of Isaiah's passage, but if applied to our discussion, it seems like you are sayng that we will all forget about the misery of this world in the next one. Kind of like when WIll Smith zapped people's memory away in "Men In Black". Is that so? WIll that happen for the righteous and the wicked as well as Acts seems to indicate?

Revelation seems to support the "new world where you forget all the bad stuff God allowed to happen to you" sentiment of Isaiah. So, you are a universalist? You believe all will go to heaven and it will be so wonderful that we will forget the horrific stuff that happened to us on earth? Am I correct here?

 

[Beaudreaux]

...and my point is this question of yours cannot and should not be answered by anyone but God.

So let me get this straight. Someone laid this line on you that God is all-loving and he lets children die of cancer and allows millions to die of painful diseases, all of which he could prevent, and you should not ask why?

This is a silly question.

Wow. Every question I ask you about your faith is loaded or silly or has some other quality that causes you to refuse to answer.

Jeremy, I honestly don't understand why you're participating in a forum called "Religious Debates" when you refuse to get into the topics or even answer simple questions. Are there any questions you feel comfortble answering?

Here, I'll try one. Jeremy, why is God so awesome?

 

[Beaudreaux]

1) Nope.
2) Even Heaven has the contrast of Hell.

ETA: 3) Is Heaven described in the Bible? I didn't think it was....

There are some descriptions, yes.

John 14:2 (New International Version)
2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.

Revelation 21:9-27 (New International Version)
9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[a]in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17He measured its wall and it was 144 cubits[b] thick,[c] by man's measurement, which the angel was using. 18The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.[d] 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass. 22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Another loaded question. Hey Beaudreaux, have you stopped beating your wife?

Look, the fact that I beat my wife has nothing to do with this. Is it my fault she just doesn't listen sometimes?

I obviously don't know how to get an answer out of you. Best of luck.

 

[Beaudreaux]

For those who think that an omnimax God should remove evil from the world, where do you draw the line? Should God eliminate the 7 Deadly Sins? Homosexuality? Wicked thoughts? Disobedient children?

How would this not destroy free will?

This is a good question. I suppose that if I believed in God I would be happy with him removing disease, famine, drought and other natural disasters.

My point in starting this thread, however, was to show that an omnimax God is inconsistent with the reality of our world. A.K.A., "there is no such God."

 

[Storm]

My point in starting this thread, however, was to show that an omnimax God is inconsistent with the reality of our world. A.K.A., "there is no such God."

I know. And I actually agree with you. But for one thing, it isn't proof, and for another, it's not as much fun as trying to figure out a way for it to work.

 

[starlite]

Let's take a look at these and try to understand your viewpoint. I would ask in the future that you cut and past the content of these verses from Biblegateway.com for the convenience of readers.



OK, I am really confused now. Galations seems to say that men will reap what they sow. Are you making the point that victims of natural disasters somehow deserved what they got?

Your passage from Acts says that all will be resurrected, both the righteous and the wicked. This seems in direct opposition to your Galations passage. Also, are you saying that all will go to heaven and be rewarded? Even the "wicked"?

I am not sure of the context of Isaiah's passage, but if applied to our discussion, it seems like you are sayng that we will all forget about the misery of this world in the next one. Kind of like when WIll Smith zapped people's memory away in "Men In Black". Is that so? WIll that happen for the righteous and the wicked as well as Acts seems to indicate?

Revelation seems to support the "new world where you forget all the bad stuff God allowed to happen to you" sentiment of Isaiah. So, you are a universalist? You believe all will go to heaven and it will be so wonderful that we will forget the horrific stuff that happened to us on earth? Am I correct here?

The reason for not citing the scriptures was to give those viewing an opportunity to use which ever bible they felt comfortable with and not bias the discussion. Which you probably think I already have by referring to them in the first place, right?

The thought in Galatians was to bring out that many of man's problems he brings upon himself, such as polluting the earth etc. Yes there are innocent victims and as I have previously posted God has not intervened for a reason. Since God can read hearts all will be raised back to life, not in heaven, but here on the earth after God cleanses it of wickedness, as brought out in Acts. Those resurrected ones will be given the opportunity to accept what God has done by resurrecting them. Also, there are righteously disposed ones who will survive God's cleansing of the earth, just as in Noah's day. In Isaiah you were correct in saying that the bad things that have happened to individuals will not be remembered. Revelation as well is comforting in letting us know that our painful past will not be remembered. Verse 5 is God's guarantee of these things.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Isnt is a bit presumptuous of us? shouldnt we be able to have normal and stable relationships between people around us before we dream of peace?

Think GLOBALLY... act LOCALLY. Get your act together here and watch the whole planet come together.

 

[Caladan]

I could try to describe the flavor of watermelon all day long...but ultimately you'll only understand what watermelon tastes like when you take a bite of watermelon. If you don't understand what common decency is then maybe you should try being decent to different people all over the world and see what happens. I have done so quite successfully and it's not the mystery you make it out to be.

Well that is a bit patronizing. do you believe this has help solved any ongoing and deeply rooted conflicts around the world?
and please, be honest. this is for prosperity

 

[Caladan]

Think GLOBALLY... act LOCALLY. Get your act together here and watch the whole planet come together.

Whatever reeks of Utopia turns me off, Scuba. but yes, treating people with respect, is a norm to be followed, if that is your general idea.

 

[IF_u_knew]

My question is, why don't *we* stop evil, pain, and suffering? Why do we always consider it G.d's job to come in and fix the messes we make? Are we not big boys and girls that we can't take responsibility for our own actions?