Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering?

[Freelancer7]

Fair Play to you.

To be Honest on Reflection to your Comments why on earth should God be bothered to save lads like you that don't believe in Creation anyway????????

 

[Freelancer7]

But I'm sure for some bloody mad reason God would forgive ya?!

 

[Beaudreaux]

Wow! This is the most you've ever responded to one of my questions to you. Let's hope it's a trend.

This is hilarious!
Let's start from the top. The OP doesn't take into consideration that God will reward those who suffer because of Him in ways that far exceed any suffering.

Just how would the question take that into consideration? And how does God reward the atheist who is drowned in a Tsunami? Or is that a silly question too?

Beaudreaux, as you can see in his OP gives a loaded scenario by not including the other side of the Judeo/Christian theology.

You continue to demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of what a loaded question is, even after it has been pointed out to you. Suffice it to say that "a question you don't like/can't answer" is not the correct definition. This question has been studied as a serious part of theology for centuries, and for good reason. It affects people on a most personal level. Some day someone close to you will suffer an agonizing loss and ask you "Why did God let this happen?" I would love to be a fly on the wall when you tell them their question is "loaded".

Here's where the who goes to Heaven or Hell starts.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1403667-post193.html
This is where I tell Beaudreaux that this is a question for God not me or anyone for that matter. For some reason he wants to call me a lier. MYTH BUSTED!!! He clearly asks the question,"Does that mean ALL of them went to heaven?"
Silly question follow right behind.

No explanation needed. But Beaudreaux twists this to somehow mean this :areyoucra

Who's lying now Beaudreaux?

Mea culpa. My misunderstanding. Your phrasing "This question of yours" (which is a bit non-specific) I took to mean the OP. My apologies for misreading.

I'm sure Aquinas' OP would have taken into consideration the other half of the Judeo/Christian story.

Aquinas' laid out the problem of evil in much the same way that I and many others before me have. To review, Christianity say's three things:

1. God is omnipotent
2. God is good
3. Evil and suffering are real

He, like me, points out that these three statements cannot all be true. You should read some of his works. They are quite good. I do not know what you mean by "the other half of the Judeo/Christian story" and I am fairly confident that you do not know either. But on the off chance that you do, please share with the group.

As I have shown

• the OP is loaded
• The question of who goes to Heaven or Hell is loaded.

Dude, do yourself a favor and learn what a loaded question is. The age old question of theodicy is not a loaded question just because you don't like it.

• The question "Every person who ever died of Smallpox (and there were MILLIONS) was coincidentally a Christian?" was silly.

[sigh...] you claimed that the victims of natural disasters go to a better place, but doesn't Christianity teach that only Christians will go to that better place? So, is it silly or logical to ask if all of the victims were Chritians?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Wow! This is the most you've ever responded to one of my questions to you. Let's hope it's a trend.

We'll see...

Just how would the question take that into consideration? And how does God reward the atheist who is drowned in a Tsunami? Or is that a silly question too?

God will forgive who God forgives. I don't know how many time I have to tell you this. I know you want me to answer in a typical uneducated Christian way and say,"He's going to Hell", but the Bible clearly forbids anyone to make such a call and I won't do it.

Romans 10:6-7 (NIV)

6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'[b]" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

and

Matthew 7:1-5 (NIV)

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

You continue to demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of what a loaded question is, even after it has been pointed out to you.

If you look at my last post, I say you have a load scenario. The questions are based off that loaded scenario in attempt to get me to state something that is completely unethical.

"Why did God let this happen?" I would love to be a fly on the wall when you tell them their question is "loaded".

My answer will be, "I don't know". ...and then I'll comfort them in an way I can via water, medication, food, another pillow or a doctor.

[sigh...] you claimed that the victims of natural disasters go to a better place, but doesn't Christianity teach that only Christians will go to that better place? So, is it silly or logical to ask if all of the victims were Chritians?

Do you think all the victims were Christian? Remember, Jesus is looking for people who seek the truth, not just people who call themselves Christians.

Matthew 7:21

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mea culpa. My misunderstanding. Your phrasing "This question of yours" (which is a bit non-specific) I took to mean the OP. My apologies for misreading.

No worries...

Aquinas' laid out the problem of evil in much the same way that I and many others before me have. To review, Christianity say's three things:

1. God is omnipotent
2. God is good
3. Evil and suffering are real

He, like me, points out that these three statements cannot all be true.

To some atheists, yes. I say "some" to not offend the atheists who might understand my POV. As scary as it is, God gives us freewill and he will not use His power to manipulate our decisions, even though He could. Blaming God for not making our decisions is childish. He gives you a conscience, intuition, guides and yes the Bible as well as other positive influences, but if you continually choose to not listen to your heart/mind, sinister manifestations will become easier as one practices them.

Then, there is an evil force out there, but God will not allow that force to become to strong, even if you may think it is too strong.

God never said life was going to be easy. This is a big class room and yes there's alot at stake. Would I like it if God have us Heaven straight from the get-go...sure. But obviuosly that's not the case, so lets make the most out of our situation. Remember, God hates a slacker... and so do I.

That other side of the Judeo/Christian phylosophy, is God, via his Son, who gives us every benefit of the doubt and forgives us more than we sometimes allow Him. Guilt can tear us down if we don't put it in check. But if we are good students and don't give up, we will be co-hiers with Jesus with all His Glory and rewards, forever. Not bad for 70 to 80 years of hardship.

 

[IF_u_knew]

But if we are good students and don't give up, we will be co-hiers with Jesus with all His Glory and rewards, forever.

Change that "Jesus" into the Word (aka Son of man) and you have caught on.. though, as long as you don't worship the image of Jesus and follow the example of his words, pretty much the same thing! Wow.. impressed!

 

[BucephalusBB]

To be Honest on Reflection to your Comments why on earth should God be bothered to save lads like you that don't believe in Creation anyway????????

Because he follows your signature?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Change that "Jesus" into the Word (aka Son of man) and you have caught on.. though, as long as you don't worship the image of Jesus and follow the example of his words, pretty much the same thing! Wow.. impressed!

Jesus, Yeshua, the Word incarnate are all the same to me and i worship no images.

Thank you.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God will forgive who God forgives. I don't know how many time I have to tell you this. I know you want me to answer in a typical uneducated Christian way and say,"He's going to Hell", but the Bible clearly forbids anyone to make such a call and I won't do it.

But don't you kind of make that call already when you say of the victims of natural disasters:

God will reward those who suffer because of Him in ways that far exceed any suffering

Or are you talking of a reward other than heaven?

If you look at my last post, I say you have a load scenario. The questions are based off that loaded scenario in attempt to get me to state something that is completely unethical.

The field of rhetoric has no references that I can find to a "loaded scenario". A quick Google or Live Search turns up some computer science references but nothing that approaches the context of debate and argument. Please don't consider this a loaded or silly question, because I really want to understand what you're saying here. Please define a loaded scenario?

My answer will be, "I don't know". ...and then I'll comfort them in an way I can via water, medication, food, another pillow or a doctor.

Why do you not consider their question loaded? Why is your answer on this forum not "I don't know"?

Do you think all the victims were Christian?

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that every one of them was a Christian. So unlikely that I think it is reasonable to accept it as truth.

Remember, Jesus is looking for people who seek the truth, not just people who call themselves Christians.

So, and I'm not asking you to name who, it is possible to go to heaven without calling oneself a Christian? I know that God decides, but can you at least give criteria on how to get there? If someone asked you "how do I get to heaven?" would you answer "i don't know. God decides who to forgive"?

Then, there is an evil force out there, but God will not allow that force to become to strong, even if you may think it is too strong.

Why would God allow an evil force to exist of any strength?

God never said life was going to be easy. This is a big class room and yes there's alot at stake. Would I like it if God have us Heaven straight from the get-go...sure. But obviuosly that's not the case, so lets make the most out of our situation. Remember, God hates a slacker... and so do I.

So, when God hands you smallpox, make lemonade?

I understand what you're saying here, and there are two ways to view it. There is what seems to be your way which is to not like the situation but realize that God made it that way and to make the best of it. My way is to look at the situation and say "A good God would never do this to his creation. Therefore, I don't believe He exists."

That other side of the Judeo/Christian phylosophy, is God, via his Son, who gives us every benefit of the doubt and forgives us more than we sometimes allow Him. Guilt can tear us down if we don't put it in check. But if we are good students and don't give up, we will be co-hiers with Jesus with all His Glory and rewards, forever. Not bad for 70 to 80 years of hardship.

I understand. The other side is eternal reward, yes?

 

[Sententia]

Why would God allow an evil force to exist of any strength?

How could god have children other than his only son. (Who oddly claimed to be the son of man)

 

[Shugyosha]

God lets bad things happen to good people because our souls are immortal and pain is a learning curve for our souls. The mere fact that bad things happen to good people demonstrates reincarnation is a believeable theory.

 

[Sententia]

God lets bad things happen to good people because our souls are immortal and pain is a learning curve for our souls. The mere fact that bad things happen to good people demonstrates reincarnation is a believeable theory.

Most religions teach all people are evil and there are no good people and only through their doctrine can you be saved.

 

[Katzpur]

Beaudreaux,

Exactly which bad things should God prevent from happening? Earthquakes, hurricanes, all forms of disease, poverty, war, genocide, murders, unrequited love, kids falling down and skinning their knees? Let's start by deciding what specifically God should make right, and why He should do this.

Who should He keep bad things from happening to? Everybody? Just bad people, i.e. the ones who deserve bad things to happen to them? Who should He let die? Just old people who are sick (Oh, wait! Nobody's supposed to get sick!)? Young people, too, then? Or maybe nobody should ever die. We should all just go on living forever in a perfect world where nothing bad ever happens.

I'm interested to hear your response.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

But don't you kind of make that call already when you say of the victims of natural disasters:
Or are you talking of a reward other than heaven?

Primarily the rewards are in Heaven, but he does reward people here on earth from time to time.

The field of rhetoric has no references that I can find to a "loaded scenario". A quick Google or Live Search turns up some computer science references but nothing that approaches the context of debate and argument. Please don't consider this a loaded or silly question, because I really want to understand what you're saying here. Please define a loaded scenario?

You are trying my patience and this is the last freakin' time I'm going to go over this with you.

The scenario is loaded because you DO NOT EXPLAIN THE REWARDS ONE GETS IN HEAVEN FOR THEIR SUFFERINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you not consider their question loaded? Why is your answer on this forum not "I don't know"?

You got to watch this because in a way it reminds me of our situation.

YouTube - Louis CK - Why?

So, how are those french-fries?

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that every one of them was a Christian. So unlikely that I think it is reasonable to accept it as truth.

Wow, I'm glad that's over with... :yes:

So, and I'm not asking you to name who, it is possible to go to heaven without calling oneself a Christian?

Yes, because the first followers of Christ were never called Christians. That term came later and is only used three time in the Bible. Think about it, all the people that were born before Christ didn't ALL go to hell. It's the people who are good in spirit...wait...that might be to hard for you. The good people go to Heaven and the bad people go to Hell, BUT DON'T ASK ME WHO THEY ARE!!!!!
*stuffs Beaudreaux's mouth with french-fries*

I know that God decides, but can you at least give criteria on how to get there? If someone asked you "how do I get to heaven?" would you answer "i don't know. God decides who to forgive"?

Well for starters, I would tell them to not act like you and after that we can go to step #2.

Why would God allow an evil force to exist of any strength?

It seems to to be working for you so don't knock it.

So, when God hands you smallpox, make lemonade?

You did get your shots, right?
*starts to squeeze the lemons*

I understand what you're saying here, and there are two ways to view it. There is what seems to be your way which is to not like the situation but realize that God made it that way and to make the best of it.

"That's right, he can be taught!" - Alladin
http://www.wavcentral.com/sounds/movies/aladdin/aladn008.mp3

My way is to look at the situation and say "A good God would never do this to his creation. Therefore, I don't believe He exists."

Let's see how that works out for you.

I understand. The other side is eternal reward, yes?

I hear the pay is great! I've filled out my application.

 

[Sententia]

Let's see how that works out for you. I hear the pay is great! I've filled out my application.

Isn't it just gonna be beyond words and expression to finally be in heaven!!! Get to see all our dead relatives and kitties and doggies. Wow. Plus the sleep number clouds. I think I am a 48... but if Im not sure god will just tell me. Dude... nah... 55... check it out.

No worries. Eternal life. No threats of any kind. No death. Wow. I could literally play SC2 all day til I master it. Maybe all century. Whats a few hundred years in terms of eternity. Sure our universe is like huge but finite but even if we think of something so ridiculously huge as the universe... imagine eternity... well we cant... Unless we embrace jesus? And Pascals wager. Right? Wouldnt you rather believe in god and be wrong then to not believe in god and be wrong? :clap

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Isn't it just gonna be beyond words and expression to finally be in heaven!!! Get to see all our dead relatives and kitties and doggies. Wow. Plus the sleep number clouds. I think I am a 48... but if Im not sure god will just tell me. Dude... nah... 55... check it out.

I'm putting you down for 55.

No worries. Eternal life. No threats of any kind. No death. Wow. I could literally play SC2 all day til I master it. Maybe all century. Whats a few hundred years in terms of eternity. Sure our universe is like huge but finite but even if we think of something so ridiculously huge as the universe... imagine eternity... well we cant... Unless we embrace jesus? And Pascals wager. Right? Wouldnt you rather believe in god and be wrong then to not believe in god and be wrong? :clap

I guess that's one way of putting Pascals wager. I personally find the example of Christ to be my motivation and not the threat of Hell. To live by two simple rules:

Matthew 22:34-40 (NIV)

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

 

[Freelancer7]

Beaudreaux,

Exactly which bad things should God prevent from happening? Earthquakes, hurricanes, all forms of disease, poverty, war, genocide, murders, unrequited love, kids falling down and skinning their knees? Let's start by deciding what specifically God should make right, and why He should do this.

Who should He keep bad things from happening to? Everybody? Just bad people, i.e. the ones who deserve bad things to happen to them? Who should He let die? Just old people who are sick (Oh, wait! Nobody's supposed to get sick!)? Young people, too, then? Or maybe nobody should ever die. We should all just go on living forever in a perfect world where nothing bad ever happens.

I'm interested to hear your response.

Me too!!!

 

[Beaudreaux]

Beaudreaux,

Exactly which bad things should God prevent from happening? Earthquakes, hurricanes, all forms of disease, poverty, war, genocide, murders, unrequited love, kids falling down and skinning their knees? Let's start by deciding what specifically God should make right, and why He should do this.

Who should He keep bad things from happening to? Everybody? Just bad people, i.e. the ones who deserve bad things to happen to them? Who should He let die? Just old people who are sick (Oh, wait! Nobody's supposed to get sick!)? Young people, too, then? Or maybe nobody should ever die. We should all just go on living forever in a perfect world where nothing bad ever happens.

I'm interested to hear your response.

I don't understand why you think such a world is impossible. If you are a Christian, don't you believe that such a place has already been prepared for you? Do you believe in Heaven?

 

[Beaudreaux]

I guess that's one way of putting Pascals wager. I personally find the example of Christ to be my motivation and not the threat of Hell.

There is a problem with Pascal's wager. The problem is, who do you bet on? If Buddhism is true, then you have bet incorrectly. If the Greek Pantheon is actually the truth, then down to Hades you go. The bet is not 50/50.

 

[stellaf]

It is such a nice stuff and I really like it and found a lot of useful information which is going to be very helpful in my learning process. Thank you so much for sharing.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

There is a problem with Pascal's wager. The problem is, who do you bet on? If Buddhism is true, then you have bet incorrectly. If the Greek Pantheon is actually the truth, then down to Hades you go. The bet is not 50/50.

I agree, Pascal's wager is very problematic and it doesn't address the true nature of Christianity.