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Why doesn't God stop evil, pain and suffering?

M

mohammed_beiruti

Active Member
Beaudreaux said:
Most monotheistic religions (certainly Christianity and Judaism) say three things about God:
  • He's omniscient and omnipotent (there is nothing he does not know or cannot do)
  • He's omnibenevolent (he is all-loving)
  • Evil and pain and suffering are real in the world
But one look at the world around us shows us that these three things cannot all be true. Consider:
  • The day after Christmas in 2004 an earthquake in the Indian Ocean caused a series of massive Tsunami that killed over a quarter million people. Parents who could not hang on to their children watched as they were drowned in the flood.
  • A year later in 2005, a hurricane ripped into the southeastern U.S. killing over 1,800 people. In New Orleans, homeowners retreated to their attics to escape the rising flood waters, only to huddle together in fear as the water rose and they watched each other drown.
  • Around 10,000 BCE, a virus came into the world that killed 20% - 60% of the people it infected (except for children, where the mortality rate was 80%). This was not a quick death, but often took days of being covered in painful pustules on the skin and in the throat. In the 18th century, it killed 400,000 people per year and was responsibile for a third of all blindness. During the 20th century it is estimated that this virus killed 3 - 5 hundred million people.
  • Too many more like this to list them all...
If the Christian God exists, he knew about the Asian Tsunami, Hurrican Katrina and Smallpox before they occured, yet he did nothing to prevent them from happening. Why not?

Imagine the person you love most in the world. Now imagine that person in a hospital bed before you wracked in pain and dying of pancreatic cancer. After attending to your loved one for several days and taking in the full extent of their suffering, a doctor walks up to you and says "You know I have a cure for that type of cancer." You think to yourself "this is fantastic! My loved one can be spared!" But when you ask the doctor to give your loved one the cure, he refuses. You beg, you plead, you take legal action, but none of it works. The doctor refuses and your loved one dies shortly afterward.

What would we say about this doctor? Would we say he was a good man? No! We would probabaly say he is a demon. But God is just like the doctor. He sits back and watches the evil and suffering that plagues humanity knowing full well that he could prevent it, yet he refuses to.

So, what can we say about God?
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that you may ask help from Allah and strenghthen your relation with him by praise and supplications.
 
BucephalusBB

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
mohammed_beiruti said:
an answer for "why God afflict us with particular evil?"
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He is kind of stating that if God exists, he's quite evil or has his evil moments and you advice him to strengthen his relationship and even praise that God wich he views as evil.
Don't you think that's sort of a strange answer?

Do you think he will follow your answer? :sarcastic
 
Caladan

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Freelancer7 said:
Caladan said:
Many speak about the 'problem of suffering', but I dont believe there is a problem. the world is what it is, and what we call suffering is simply our condition in what has already occurred for billions of years before our time.
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A Jewish child running for an air-raid shelter, a palastinian child having their leg blown off due to the incompetence of Leaders who reckon they love a creator in a pathetic tit fot tat exchange without seriuos dialogue?? Who reckon their own faiths are the righteous faith?! Poverty, death by hunger?! A world food shortage?! World in financial crisis,We then possibly find life on Mars?! I'm not quite on the same mental and spiritual wavelength to say there is not a problem when it comes to suffering?!
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Now im not sure what a modern conflict has to do, with the fact that species have been suffering mass extinctions many millions of years before the appearance of man on the Terran landscape, or with the fact that plagues and famines have been killing animals and humans and still do today, that natural disasters have wiped populated centers. the world and the universe are what they are, and perhaps with progress we can push the illusion that life is sterile a bit more (and even that to only certain segments of the human populations). once you accept the world as it is, its one step closer to start dealing with it.
 
M

mohammed_beiruti

Active Member
Bouncing Ball said:
He is kind of stating that if God exists, he's quite evil or has his evil moments and you advice him to strengthen his relationship and even praise that God wich he views as evil.
Don't you think that's sort of a strange answer?

Do you think he will follow your answer? :sarcastic
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first
God would bestow you with favors, in order to thank him,

but if you insist to deny God's favor

God would afflict you harm, in order to remember him, and return.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Beaudreaux said:
A great question, and one I had not really thought about until now.

Am I challenging people to convert me? I suppose I am, though there's more to it than that. I was a fundamentalist Christian for many years until I could no longer ignore the philosophical problems I found in my worldview. But it was nice while it lasted. :) Seriously, it's kind of comforting to know you are right and to anticipate an eternal reward and to think that your deceased loved ones aren't really dead. If I could believe that, why wouldn't I? I think solving the problem of evil would go a long way toward that, though I must be honest and say that I really don't think it's solvable. Who knows though? :)

But on the other hand, I am also trying to show people the problem with believing in an omnimax God in such an imperfect world. I know there are a lot of people out there who are where I was; feeling absolutely confident that they know the will of the almighty. It is a dangerous thing to live in a society where people believe they are being directed by God. Who knows what God will "tell" them to do?
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Ah, so your purpose is to convert? That never works.
 
lunamoth

lunamoth

Will to love
Beaudreaux said:
More like dissuade. :)
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The only thing is, there are unanswerable questions in naturalism, too.

Why is supernaturalism not allowed paradox/mystery but naturalism is?

Is it the level of certainty that you are concerned about?

If so, why would you reject as invalid approaches to religion based upon faith, which by definition includes uncertainty?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Storm said:
To-may-to, to-mah-to. Most people on this board have already gone through that particular struggle of faith, and come to a conclusion. You're not going to change anyone's mind.
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Probably not in real time, no. I don't expect a post saying "Wow! You're right! I renounce my faith." But the cummulative arguments I heard over the years brought ME to a point where I changed MY mind. If I can do it, so can others. :)

By the way, if I hear arguments for a world view that I think are valid, I'm up for changing my mind again. To be a lover of wisdom means that your most deeply held beliefs must always be on the chopping block. If people are unwilling to change their positions, what's the point of debate?
 
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
lunamoth said:
BTW, I'm off to yoga. Catch you all later!
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Quick yoga joke.
Two men meet on the street.
One asks the other: "Hi, how are you?"
The other one replies: "I'm fine, thanks."
"And how's your son? Is he still unemployed?"
"Yes, he is. But he is meditating now."
"Meditating? What's that?"
"I don't know. But it's better than sitting around and doing nothing!"
Click to expand...
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Beaudreaux said:
Probably not in real time, no. I don't expect a post saying "Wow! You're right! I renounce my faith." But the cummulative arguments I heard over the years brought ME to a point where I changed MY mind. If I can do it, so can others. :)
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Yes, but should they change their minds? Why?
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Beaudreaux

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Storm said:
I think that's insupportable at best, bigotry at worst.
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Uh oh....here we go again. :)

I do provide support for my position. What if I told you that a man prepared a home made pipe bomb, drove to an abortion clinic, lit it and threw it through a window killing several staff members and patients inside. Afterward he met with friends who applauded what he did and considered him to be a hero. From that description there is very little you could assume about him. His age? No. His educational level? No. His race? No. But there is one thing is almost certain about him. His religion. Religious belief is a necessary and sufficient cause for that action. If that were the only example of how religious belief can cause human suffering it would be compelling. That there are thousands of such horrific acts that are attributable to religious belief is substantially compelling.

Storm said:

Whoa, that's cool!
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Isn't it? The technology is cool, but I think it is eclipsed by the compelling prose of Harris. He is, IMHO, the most eloquent contemporary voice against irrational belief.
 
Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Caladan said:
This reminds me of a poem by Rumi:

Awakened by your love,
I flicker like a candle's light
tryin to hold on in the dark.
Yet, you spare me no blows
and keep asking,
"Why do you complain?"

Many speak about the 'problem of suffering', but I dont believe there is a problem. the world is what it is, and what we call suffering is simply our condition in what has already occurred for billions of years before our time. perhaps its the need people have developed for a perfect deity that creates this dilemma. maybe the Greeks were wiser in describing the gods as they did after all.
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I like the idea that we choose our present condition before birth (not saying I believe it, just that I like the idea).

In that light, complaining about anything is absurd. It's sort of like signing up for a World of Warcraft account and then complaining because there are other members and creatures there trying to kill your character.
 
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