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Why doesn't Islam accept Bahai?

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
A question for the Muslims on this thread, if you will be so kind:

Does it feel at all awkward to saw that you follow Islam? Or maybe you prefer to just say that you are Muslims?

I ask because, to the best of my understanding, "Islam" is an revered concept, not too far from meaning literally "perfection" or even "divine". It may sound pretentious for a secularist to say that he follows the path of perfection, so I wonder whether a Muslim might feel a bit disconfortable in saying that he follows Islam.

You realize, of course, that there is a significant difference between admiring and seeking inspiration from divine perfection and actually saying that one follows it.

Or maybe I'm just thinking too much about it. What do you say?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
No, but I have informed several Baha'i online that I am the newest prophet and ready to replace Baha'u'llah's old Truth with my new Truth.

Alas... I've been entirely rejected.


For the simple reason that you're ENTIRELY IGNORING this clear statement in the Baha'i scriptures:

"37
“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather, follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.”


-- The Book of Laws, p. 32
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
to change the name of religion and instead of being submitters to him they have to be followers of Bahaullah?

They don't "have to!" and indeed, the Baha'i Faith recognizes ALL the great religions as legitimate and of God!

But you overlook the fact that that both the Jewish and Christian scriptures promise that the Spirit will have a new name!

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
They don't "have to!" and indeed, the Baha'i Faith recognizes ALL the great religions as legitimate and of God!

But you overlook the fact that that both the Jewish and Christian scriptures promise that the Spirit will have a new name!

Peace, :)

Bruce

Dum dum dummmmmmm!

Hi. Care to show me where it says in Jewish Scriptures that the Spirit will have a new name?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Care to show me where it says in Jewish Scriptures that the Spirit will have a new name?

We deliver!: :) :)


Isaiah 62

2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Isaiah 65

15 The Lord God ... shall call His servants by another name.


(If you'd care to see the occasions in the Christian scriptures, too, just ask me.) :)


Bruce
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
There will be never a nation called Bahai,it never and will never united the world,but Jesus pbuh will rule the world, and his return will be to unite the world; Jesus won't come to say i am a follower of Bahaullah, but he'll say i am God's servant and a submitter to Him.

You overlook the fact that Baha'u'llah WAS the Return of the Christ Spirit (with the long-promised New Name)!


Bruce
 

Tumah

Veteran Member


We deliver!: :) :)


Isaiah 62

2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Isaiah 65

15 The Lord God ... shall call His servants by another name.


(If you'd care to see the occasions in the Christian scriptures, too, just ask me.) :)


Bruce

Have you read the surrounding passages of those verses? Or does each verse (and apparently part verse) allowed to get a new meaning when you remove it from its context?
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
For the simple reason that you're ENTIRELY IGNORING this clear statement in the Baha'i scriptures:

Sure, and the Baha'is ignore the clear statements in the Quran that Muhammad was the final prophet.

That was my point.

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing!
Yeah, most of the early prophets were extremely jealous of their stations. It's just another reason why I consider them to be false -- or at least confused about that particular issue.

In truth, everyone is a prophet. Everyone has revelations directly from God.

Baha'u'llah can't take my prophethood.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Homosexuality has always been common and it's very common in the Arab world and has been for centuries.

I am living in the Arab world and i didn't find any whereas in other countries they are abundant.

45d33_476710.jpg
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
The Bible taked about a new prophet that will come and that's what said the Quran:

7.157 Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel.

The Quran doesn't announce anybody exept Jesus and the Hadiths only announce Jesus and the Mahdi.
Even in the New Testament people were waiting for 3 persons : Elie (who was John the Baptist), the Messiah (Jesus) and the prophet .

John 1.25. Now the Pharisees who had been sent questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

The prophet Muhammad said in many hadiths that there's no prophet between Jesus and him and after him he only said that Jesus and the Mahdi (who isn't called a prophet) will come.

In Islam there are two promised One. Mahdi and Return of Christ. These two are fulfilled by coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
You can read about these in these sources:

Baha'u'llah: The Great Announcement of the Qur'an
Baha'i: Prophecy Fulfilled Homepage


The Mahdi is a pious man, never he was called a "prophet/messenger" by Muhammad or his companions. He never said "an other prophet will come after me, it will be the Mahdi". We don't have a hadith like that.
Which Book ?

The Hadith I mentioned is in Shia Books, which of course if I quote, you say I am sunni.
I see that as an obstacle. Each sect of Islam believes it has the truth, while believing the other sects are falsehood or the least to say their sources are not trustworthy.
The Truth was One, muslims sects divided the truth into portions, each is happy with the portion of what it has, without being open minded to consider other sects may also have some truth in them. And If I quote, they say 'show us the isnad' we believe. Well, of course there are isnads, but since they are from another sect, therefore not worthy to even look into them.
 
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InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Sure, and the Baha'is ignore the clear statements in the Quran that Muhammad was the final prophet.

That was my point.

There is no such a statement in Quran that Muhammad is the final prophet.
I have already explained that, but I post it for you again:

The correct translation is:

"Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but is God’s Apostle and the Seal of all Prophets. And God has indeed full knowledge of everything." 33:40
al-Ahzab 33:40

It depends how the term 'seal of prophets' is interpreted!

The word that is used in the verse which is translated as Seal, is 'Khatam'. Khatam was a stone on rings that could be uses to stamp (seal) a document.
But that requires some investigation as what was intended by the Term 'Seal" in Quran.

So, it is merely an interpretation that Seal means 'Last' or 'End'

In fact in Bible it is said:

"... on Jesus, God has set his Seal" John 6:27
(you can see the whole verse, I shortened it for brevity)

It does not mean, That God sealed His revelation and ended that with Jesus.
In this sense, 'Seal' means 'confirm'
One of the Missions of Muhammad was to confirm previous Prophets, hence the term 'Seal of Prophets"
In another sense, Muhammad was the Ornament of Prophets. Like an ornament on a ring, as an analogy.

For example Muhammad called Ali, 'Seal of Believers" ('Khatamul Auliya) that does not mean, He was the last believer.
Aisha, the wife of the Muhammad states;[33]
"Say he is 'seal of prophets' but do not say there is no prophet after him."[34]
See here: Khatam an-Nabuwwah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Then after this we come to investigating Hadithes. There are in fact Hadithes when Muhammad said, after Him no prophet comes, but Muhammad did not say these Hadithes as an interpretation of the term 'seal of prophets'. Therefore we need to understand what did Muhammad meant to say within the context of Hadith:

For example:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The Israelis used to be ruled and guided by prophets: Whenever a prophet died, another would take over his place. There will be no prophet after me, but there will be Caliphs who will increase in number."

The above Hadith says that, after Moses and before Jesus, there came a number of Minor Prophets as a promoter of Religion of Moses. These Prophets were Aaron, Solomon, David,...etc. They did not have a Revelation from God with a New Book and Laws, but they had come to teach Moses Laws and guide Jews. So, the Hadith deals with prophethood within the dispensation of Islam. similar to Prophets within the dispensation of Moses. Muhammad said after Him, in Islam only Khalifs come, not prophets.

That does not mean that the Revelation of God ended, even as God said in Quran:

"O children of Adam, verily apostles from among you shall come unto you, who shall expound my signs unto you: Whosoever therefore shall fear God and amend, there shall come no fear on them, neither shall they be grieved."
al-A`raf 7:35



"And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of God be exhausted (in the writing): for God is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom."
Luqman 31:27


Obviously the above shows the Quran is not the final revelation.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member


In fact it does, but only in a heavily veiled sense (in Revelation 11:3).

You can check page 95 of Riggs' The Apocalypse in the "Books" section here:

http://www.bahai-library.org

for the details.

Peace, :)

Bruce

Yes, that is precisely why I said that the Bible does not speak of Muhammad 'plainly'.
The Muslims think that Muhammad was plainly prophesied in Bible, but Christians or Jews had modified those verses to refute the truth of Muhammad.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In truth, everyone is a prophet. Everyone has revelations directly from God.

Baha'ullah can't take my prophethood.

Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines. I don't accept Baha'ullah so no reason for me to expect Islam to.

If I were to be a prophet I think my statement would be, unless God comes to you personally and verifies everything I say, don't believe any of it.

Though I suppose such a statement doesn't provide one much authority among the masses.
 

Pastek

Sunni muslim
In Islam there are two promised One. Mahdi and Return of Christ. These two are fulfilled by coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
You can read about these in these sources:

Impossible :

Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (saw) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (saw). He will descent (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.

Did the Antichrist came and fight against Jesus ?

(4310)37. Battles (Kitab Al-Malahim) from Sunan Abu-Dawud translated by Prof. Ahmad Hasan - Hadith (Hadis) Books

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

(4)Search the word jesus in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Allah's Apostle told us a long narrative about Ad-dajjal, and among the many things he mentioned, was his saying,
"Ad-dajjal will come and it will be forbidden for him to pass through the entrances of Medina. (...) on that day the best man or one of the best men will come up to him and say, 'I testify that you are the same dajjal whose description was given to us by Allah's Apostle .'
Ad-dajjal will say to the people, 'If I kill this man and bring him back to life again, will you doubt my claim?' They will say, 'No.' Then Ad-dajjal will kill that man and bring him back to life. That man will say, 'Now I know your reality better than before.' Ad-dajjal will say, 'I want to kill him but I cannot.' "


(11) Search the word dajjal in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

There's so much hadiths about this subject.
For what we (all) know : all those things above didn't happen.

I suggest you to read the hadiths about the return of Jesus and you'll know that Bab and Baha'u'lla have nothing in common with this.
 
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