Why doesn't the Bible condemn cannibalism?

[Salek Atesh]

Premise A: Kosher milk must be derived from kosher animals.
Premise B: Human milk is permitted.
Therefore?

Premise A is wrong. Will you just read the bible all ready?? This thread is becoming nothing but you saying obviously wrong things and being corrected by the many religion nerds on this site. If you want to try using this argument in a debate, I'd advise doing it on a forum that isn't crawling with scripture geeks.

The bible says anything derived from a kosher animal is kosher, THUS, cow's milk is kosher. It does NOT say kosher milk comes from kosher animals.

Here's my question. Human milk is specified by the bible as being kosher. But the bible already had a law stating that products from kosher animals were kosher.

Tell me, then, if human meat was kosher as you claim, why would the writers have needed to specify human milk as being kosher?? It would've already been covered under the animal products clause, so there would be no need whatsoever to specify breastmilk as kosher.

Remember, "kosher" is inclusive and not exclusive.

The logic puzzle here states:
IF the meat is kosher THEN the milk is kosher.
Human milk is kosher.

But any logician will tell you, you cannot derive "human meat is kosher" from those axioms, if-then statements can't be bent that way.

 

[Salek Atesh]

You've also failed to demonstrate that kosher restrictions are in any way intended to apply to humans.

Again, people have said it countless times, but this is not how kosher rules work.

"Kosher" is not about restrictions, it is about allowances. Everything is restricted from being eaten, except that which is allowed.

The bible does NOT list off things that are forbidden from being eaten, but rather the bible lists the things that are okay to eat.

Since the standards of kosher work this way, it is not even on us to prove that humans violate a law of being kosher, it is on you to prove that laws qualify humans as being kosher.

You seem to think it is the opposite. You seem to think that if it is not mentioned, it is, by default, "kosher", but again, that's not how that works. Deal with it.

And, of course, you've yet to get around the specific slaughter requirements. If the meat isn't slaughtered correctly, it isn't kosher anyways. The bible calls for death in certain cases, but the method of death is never the quick, smooth, throat-slitting motion with a knife required for kosher meat. You can't kill a human by biblic law in a way that is kosher.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I voted option 3. Modifying that: I don't think God would care even though I voted 3. The Bible condemns murder but only excludes Jews from eating human flesh (indirectly, through their dietary rules) but not everyone. Maybe cannibalism is not universally morally a problem?

 

[Harmonious]

How do you figure that?

 

[Brickjectivity]

How do you figure that?

Keep in mind I'm talking about cannibalism of someone who is already dead. Why would God care about that?

I don't think God would care, because if someone is already dead then I don't think the disposal of their body is that important. As for what the 'Bible' would say: I have read the Bible in English, and it condemns murder and drinking of blood. I don't remember any condemnation of cannibalism in general, but I do remember a lot of dietary rules for Jewish people. Maybe if I read it again I will notice some general principle that I didn't before.

In addition I have heard there are societies in the world where when a person dies it is respectful to eat them or part of them, so that is an example where cannibalism is not disrespectful and murderous. If that is the case then cannibalism may not be universally unethical.

 

[Harmonious]

Keep in mind I'm talking about cannibalism of someone who is already dead. Why would God care about that?

Because caring for the dead is the truest kindness one can do. After all, there is nothing one can expect from the one who is deceased, so it is only a kindness that will never be repaid.

Plus, all people were created in "God's image". Even though God doesn't have an image, the idea is that humans should have dignity. The body that housed the soul that God breathed into us should receive a dignified end.

I don't think God would care, because if someone is already dead then I don't think the disposal of their body is that important.

That's your right, but I believe differently.

As for what the 'Bible' would say: I have read the Bible in English, and it condemns murder and drinking of blood. I don't remember any condemnation of cannibalism in general, but I do remember a lot of dietary rules for Jewish people. Maybe if I read it again I will notice some general principle that I didn't before.

No. It doesn't actually say "cannibalism is forbidden." However, with a combination of other regulations regarding humans, it is rather obvious that such a thing is forbidden.

In addition I have heard there are societies in the world where when a person dies it is respectful to eat them or part of them, so that is an example where cannibalism is not disrespectful and murderous. If that is the case then cannibalism may not be universally unethical.

I've heard about this, as I've heard about "sky burials." However, that isn't Biblical, in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Because caring for the dead is the truest kindness one can do. After all, there is nothing one can expect from the one who is deceased, so it is only a kindness that will never be repaid.

Plus, all people were created in "God's image". Even though God doesn't have an image, the idea is that humans should have dignity. The body that housed the soul that God breathed into us should receive a dignified end.

To recap you are saying it undermines a principle of honoring the person who has died, that kindness to the deceased matters, that all souls have dignity and the body houses souls. You say people are created in something translated as God's image. That is an acceptable explanation for how you do things. Its an interesting reply.

No. It doesn't actually say "cannibalism is forbidden." However, with a combination of other regulations regarding humans, it is rather obvious that such a thing is forbidden.

I can take your word for that, but in the interest of conversation aren't funerals already an exception to rules about purity? You have to go near a dead body for example, and it can be depressing and upset your work week. Funerals have many effects.

I've heard about this, as I've heard about "sky burials." However, that isn't Biblical, in any way, shape, or form.

No I don't think it is in there, but there are times (it seems) that purifications have to be made when someone dies. Death is not clean. In some way the Bible says the dead body 'Defiles' those nearby or in the same room. Also the death causes a disruption in day to day activities. People have to cry and some feel ill. Some lose their motivation for a little while. Everything changes and is disrupted.

 

[Harmonious]

To recap you are saying it undermines a principle of honoring the person who has died, that kindness to the deceased matters, that all souls have dignity and the body houses souls. You say people are created in something translated as God's image. That is an acceptable explanation for how you do things. Its an interesting reply.

Thank you. And you seem to have understood me completely. It's a beautiful thing.

I can take your word for that, but in the interest of conversation aren't funerals already an exception to rules about purity? You have to go near a dead body for example, and it can be depressing and upset your work week. Funerals have many effects.

Yes, and for this reason, even to this day Cohanim are forbidden to go to funerals for anyone besides their parents, siblings, children, and wife. Any Jew who is NOT a Cohen can go to the funeral of anyone.

It's a trade-off, but one that is honorable, and only the most dedicated in the community can belong to the Chevra Kadisha. Literally translated, it is the Holy Society. In actuality, it is the Burial Society, who take care of the cleaning and preparation of a body for the funeral.

And it's not one that people bruit about, so it isn't a matter of "who's who" and "seen and be seen." They take care of their job quietly and efficiently.

No I don't think it is in there, but there are times (it seems) that purifications have to be made when someone dies.

Yup. You're right.

Death is not clean. In some way the Bible says the dead body 'Defiles' those nearby or in the same room.

Yes, it does. And for this reason, in Israel, there are signs about when a Cohen is permitted to visit someone in a hospital or not. If there is a dead body, they are not permitted to visit.

Interestingly enough, the same is true about airplane flights to Israel. Like the seven boys from Brooklyn were flown to Israel for their final resting place, El Al will alert passengers who are Cohanim that they cannot come on a particular flight or another because of the bodies being shipped on the plane.

Jews who aren't Cohanim who go to a cemetery have to wash hands ceremonially before entering another building. And during Temple times, anyone who has come in contact with a dead body, or been where the Tumah (it is often badly, but conveniently, translated as "unclean" or "taint") of death has been has to be involved in purification of 7 days and being sprinkled with water mixed with ashes of a Red Heifer before being allowed back into the Temple.

It's complicated, but yes. Death is not clean.

Also the death causes a disruption in day to day activities. People have to cry and some feel ill. Some lose their motivation for a little while. Everything changes and is disrupted.

Agreed.

 

[Salek Atesh]

Keep in mind I'm talking about cannibalism of someone who is already dead. Why would God care about that?

I don't think God would care, because if someone is already dead then I don't think the disposal of their body is that important.

I agree with you in theory, it doesn't seem to be something I would judge morally wrong.

But, I'd say a deity might have an interest in forbidding it due to medical problems it can cause.

Kuru (disease) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[Unification]

The writers were trying to convey how God takes care of God's children within a culture of having been militarily dominated for centuries. For the very ancient Hebraic people, God was a God of physical strength and military might.

There is no such proof or history of the Hebrew Scriptures happening literally, native born heritage Jews and Israeli archeologists even profess this, what a way to stand up for truth. Imagine how fearful that'd be. The Exodus, Jericho, etc. It's the spiritual message and truth behind them.

God is no respector of persons and has never changed. You know yourself that God is ONE and LOVE. God does take care of his children who have been dominated by their enemies (falsity, evil desires, emotions, knowledge, thoughts, etc.) Who have been dominated mentally by conditioning due to religion, education, the world, experience and then approach properly. (This is precisely what the Exodus is... Leaving the realm of falsity by a still quiet mind, escaping one's own enemies that consume them... Experiencing salvation (truth setting one free.) Which, is objective for all of mankind.

Here's a really good quote:

" If we understand sacred writings according to the letter, we fall into the most enormous blasphemy by ascribing cruelty and falsehood to the Deity", which is precisely what organized religion has done."

 

[Unification]

Thank you. And you seem to have understood me completely. It's a beautiful thing.

Yes, and for this reason, even to this day Cohanim are forbidden to go to funerals for anyone besides their parents, siblings, children, and wife. Any Jew who is NOT a Cohen can go to the funeral of anyone.

It's a trade-off, but one that is honorable, and only the most dedicated in the community can belong to the Chevra Kadisha. Literally translated, it is the Holy Society. In actuality, it is the Burial Society, who take care of the cleaning and preparation of a body for the funeral.

And it's not one that people bruit about, so it isn't a matter of "who's who" and "seen and be seen." They take care of their job quietly and efficiently.

Yup. You're right.

Yes, it does. And for this reason, in Israel, there are signs about when a Cohen is permitted to visit someone in a hospital or not. If there is a dead body, they are not permitted to visit.

Interestingly enough, the same is true about airplane flights to Israel. Like the seven boys from Brooklyn were flown to Israel for their final resting place, El Al will alert passengers who are Cohanim that they cannot come on a particular flight or another because of the bodies being shipped on the plane.

Jews who aren't Cohanim who go to a cemetery have to wash hands ceremonially before entering another building. And during Temple times, anyone who has come in contact with a dead body, or been where the Tumah (it is often badly, but conveniently, translated as "unclean" or "taint") of death has been has to be involved in purification of 7 days and being sprinkled with water mixed with ashes of a Red Heifer before being allowed back into the Temple.

It's complicated, but yes. Death is not clean.
Agreed.

Mental created concepts. Dead in scripture is spiritually dead. Dead to truth. Of course falsity and organized religions and evil are no good to be around because they are spiritually dead and believe lies, Create divide, and are unclean.. Outward and vanity under the sun. And corrupt and condition ones mind. Land of Nod... Asleep. Awake from the dead. All those crazy man laws and traditions are anything but salvation- set free by truth.

 

[Unification]

Thank you. And you seem to have understood me completely. It's a beautiful thing.

Yes, and for this reason, even to this day Cohanim are forbidden to go to funerals for anyone besides their parents, siblings, children, and wife. Any Jew who is NOT a Cohen can go to the funeral of anyone.

It's a trade-off, but one that is honorable, and only the most dedicated in the community can belong to the Chevra Kadisha. Literally translated, it is the Holy Society. In actuality, it is the Burial Society, who take care of the cleaning and preparation of a body for the funeral.

And it's not one that people bruit about, so it isn't a matter of "who's who" and "seen and be seen." They take care of their job quietly and efficiently.

Yup. You're right.

Yes, it does. And for this reason, in Israel, there are signs about when a Cohen is permitted to visit someone in a hospital or not. If there is a dead body, they are not permitted to visit.

Interestingly enough, the same is true about airplane flights to Israel. Like the seven boys from Brooklyn were flown to Israel for their final resting place, El Al will alert passengers who are Cohanim that they cannot come on a particular flight or another because of the bodies being shipped on the plane.

Jews who aren't Cohanim who go to a cemetery have to wash hands ceremonially before entering another building. And during Temple times, anyone who has come in contact with a dead body, or been where the Tumah (it is often badly, but conveniently, translated as "unclean" or "taint") of death has been has to be involved in purification of 7 days and being sprinkled with water mixed with ashes of a Red Heifer before being allowed back into the Temple.

It's complicated, but yes. Death is not clean.
Agreed.

The temple of God is also in your head, and water metaphorically means "truth." All of the "dead bodies" one has been in contact with, one's entire life, it would take much time to purify one's mind with truth. The return of the messiah within, it'd be painful and dreadful for one, Due to discovering the entire life has been a lie and one would have to lose their own understanding for the truth and true wisdom of God. It was painful for me, but set free is beyond beautiful.

 

[Unification]

The writers were trying to convey how God takes care of God's children within a culture of having been militarily dominated for centuries. For the very ancient Hebraic people, God was a God of physical strength and military might.

The power and the strength of God has always occurred within the human. Transformation of one's spirit and mind. This is the miracle.

 

[Unification]

The writers were trying to convey how God takes care of God's children within a culture of having been militarily dominated for centuries. For the very ancient Hebraic people, God was a God of physical strength and military might.

The natural man always perceives outward kingdoms and strength. The spiritual man always perceives inward kingdoms and inward strength.

 

[Unification]

Again, people have said it countless times, but this is not how kosher rules work.

"Kosher" is not about restrictions, it is about allowances. Everything is restricted from being eaten, except that which is allowed.

The bible does NOT list off things that are forbidden from being eaten, but rather the bible lists the things that are okay to eat.

Since the standards of kosher work this way, it is not even on us to prove that humans violate a law of being kosher, it is on you to prove that laws qualify humans as being kosher.

You seem to think it is the opposite. You seem to think that if it is not mentioned, it is, by default, "kosher", but again, that's not how that works. Deal with it.

And, of course, you've yet to get around the specific slaughter requirements. If the meat isn't slaughtered correctly, it isn't kosher anyways. The bible calls for death in certain cases, but the method of death is never the quick, smooth, throat-slitting motion with a knife required for kosher meat. You can't kill a human by biblic law in a way that is kosher.

Kosher laws are silly and not literal.

Gods truth and meaning is not what you eat, it's what you think.

The pig (pork) is metaphorical for the lower mind because it loves to roll in the mud.

Not eating pork is a symbol of not consuming the lower flesh which is the carnal mind of emotions and feelings.

God is saying to seek the higher mind (conscious),spiritual things and not the things of the world. The things of the world and lies defile a humans' mind, making them unclean and spiritually dead.

Be still and quiet of mind and allow the flood to come and destroy this evil and lies.

 

[Harmonious]

Mental created concepts. Dead in scripture is spiritually dead. Dead to truth. Of course falsity and organized religions and evil are no good to be around because they are spiritually dead and believe lies, Create divide, and are unclean.. Outward and vanity under the sun. And corrupt and condition ones mind. Land of Nod... Asleep. Awake from the dead. All those crazy man laws and traditions are anything but salvation- set free by truth.

Please stop reinventing the things that I've said. Your belief system is creeping me out. It isn't because it is your beliefs. It is because you are making it a point to find new meanings to everything I've said and that I believe in.

Please stop. It isn't "truth." It's your belief. I get that. But PLEASE don't reinvent my belief in your image. I don't care for your image, and I don't care for the way you have subverted what I've said in several threads.

Please stop.

 

[sojourner]

There is no such proof or history of the Hebrew Scriptures happening literally, native born heritage Jews and Israeli archeologists even profess this, what a way to stand up for truth. Imagine how fearful that'd be. The Exodus, Jericho, etc. It's the spiritual message and truth behind them.

Yes, but that truth is filtered through he lens of their experience of having been militarily conquered time and time again.

God is no respector of persons and has never changed. You know yourself that God is ONE and LOVE. God does take care of his children who have been dominated by their enemies (falsity, evil desires, emotions, knowledge, thoughts, etc.) Who have been dominated mentally by conditioning due to religion, education, the world, experience and then approach properly. (This is precisely what the Exodus is... Leaving the realm of falsity by a still quiet mind, escaping one's own enemies that consume them... Experiencing salvation (truth setting one free.) Which, is objective for all of mankind.

That's your understanding -- not necessarily the writers'.

Here's a really good quote:

" If we understand sacred writings according to the letter, we fall into the most enormous blasphemy by ascribing cruelty and falsehood to the Deity", which is precisely what organized religion has done."

...without a really good citation.

 

[sojourner]

Mental created concepts. Dead in scripture is spiritually dead. Dead to truth. Of course falsity and organized religions and evil are no good to be around because they are spiritually dead and believe lies, Create divide, and are unclean.. Outward and vanity under the sun. And corrupt and condition ones mind. Land of Nod... Asleep. Awake from the dead. All those crazy man laws and traditions are anything but salvation- set free by truth.

Nice little sermon, but it's got little to do with the Hebrew texts, as understood by the Hebrews.

 

[sojourner]

The power and the strength of God has always occurred within the human. Transformation of one's spirit and mind. This is the miracle.

Not according to the writers.

 

[sojourner]

The natural man always perceives outward kingdoms and strength. The spiritual man always perceives inward kingdoms and inward strength.

And what kind of emphasis do you think ancient, nomadic people would have? Natural, or spiritual? History tells us that humankind has become increasingly spiritual over time, leading us to the conclusion that very ancient humanity was very natural -- which is why they perceived the sun, itself, as a god.