sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Perhaps one shouldn't try to spiritually evaluate those with whom one is not at all familiar.Perhaps one should know themselves internally a little better,
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Perhaps one shouldn't try to spiritually evaluate those with whom one is not at all familiar.Perhaps one should know themselves internally a little better,
1) "Greater truth" has no consciousness of its own, so doesn't "realize" anything.
2) I believe I already pointed out that human beings are human beings.
3) By definition, what we share is partial, for God is greater than the sum of our parts.
The Passover was established between God and the Jews who were slaves in Egypt.They were to slaughter a 1 year old male lamb or goat,gut it,and roast it whole.It was to be eaten with bitter greens so they would remember the bitter times they had in Egypt.This was the covenant God made with His people.Moses led Gods people in the Exodus and was their Messiah.Their Christ.
(I will explain in detail in another comment later)
Anyway.... much later.Jesus, a Jew, followed the customs.He participated in the Passover with his disciples on Nisan 14th 33C.E.After this he dismissed Judas Iscariot, and then established the new covenant,the last supper, with the remaining 11. This ritual is not called the Eucharist.This is a false claim.The Greek word eukhariste΄sas means to give thanks.To be grateful,show gratitude.This is what Jesus did after he passed the emblems.The ritual itself is not called The Eucharist.Many are mislead by those who use their own understanding and reasoning.Thats what I meant when I said the Word The Eucharist does not exist in the holy scriptures.This is just a group taking a word and running with it to mean what they want.It was called the last supper.The new covenant.Not the Eucharist.It is not The Thanksgiving.Thanksgiving, or prayer, is done after every meal.This sanctifies the emblems.
1 Timothy 4:3,4. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
Everything that is taught about this by the RCC does not match with what the holy scriptures says.So the last supper was established, and it was consecrated by the word of God and prayer.So if we go with what you are you are saying, The Eucharist was then consecrated with The Eucharist.The Thanksgiving with the Thanksgiving.That makes no sense at all.If we read and study thoroughly it is easy to see the truth.
The fact of the matter is that Jesus was just giving thanks after passing the emblems.
A) Jesus wasn't doing Passover with his disciples as you stated. Read the scriptures. The lambs were not yet slain, even as Jesus was before Pilate.
B) Scripture states, they were reclining at table. You stand at table for Passover.
C) It's called the Last Supper but Jesus was leading a Jewish todah at the Last Supper.
See if you can follow this rabbi's thoughts.
"Being Saved From Grave Danger
By Rabbi Z. Sklar
וזאת תורת זבח השלמים אשר יקריב…
“If he shall offer it for a thanksgiving offering…” (Leviticus 7:11).
The Hebrew word todah means thank you. In the times of the Temple, when a person survived a life-threatening situation, he or she brought a korban todah — a thanksgiving offering. This offering, which consisted of a cow, sheep, or goat, was brought together with thirty matzahs and ten loaves of bread. One tenth of this was given to the kohen (priest), and the rest was to be eaten within one day and a night.
The Netziv (an acronym for Rabbi Naftail Zvi Yehuda Berlin) asks how the Torah can require a person to eat an entire animal plus a tableful of matzah and bread — all within 24 hours (Ha’emek Davar, 7:13). In fact, it is nearly impossible. The person bringing the todah offering therefore had no choice but to invite family and friends to take part in his meal. At this meal, he would explain to all of his guests what had transpired to require him to bring the todah, publicly acknowledging G-d’s help in saving him from a dangerous situation. All those present would hear a moving, firsthand account of G-d’s benevolence.
Hearing a story — even a certifiably true story — third- or fourth-hand can be uplifting, even inspiring, but it doesn’t compare to hearing a first-person account of how G-d clearly saved the day. Everyone present at such a meal would hopefully reflect on the role G-d plays in their own lives and realize that, when the chips are down, G-d can come to my aid. If He helped that person, He can do the same for me.
The Midrash (Vayikra Rabba 9:7) explains that when the Messiah comes, there will no longer be a need for sacrifices to atone for sin; as there will be no evil inclination, sin will no longer exist. However, not all sacrifices will cease. The todah sacrifice will still be offered. Why? According to Rabbi Henoch Zundel (a commentator on the Midrash known as the Eitz Yosef), there will be no illness and no grave perils after the Messiah arrives. What evil can G-d save a person from, that he would be required to offer a todah sacrifice?
The Eitz Yosef understands that the todah will no longer be an obligatory offering when the Messiah comes. Rather, it will be brought voluntarily, as a way for people to express their utter appreciation for everything G-d does. And when it is shared, as it must be, with a large group of people, the whole group will develop a greater appreciation for G-d’s goodness.
The todah offering teaches us the value of thanking G-d not only when He saves us from grave danger, but for everything He does. It also teaches us the need to express our gratitude to anyone who has done something for our benefit — even for something as trivial as emptying our trash can. How much more so must we express our appreciation for those who do much greater things for us! How about our parents? Or spouses? It wouldn’t hurt to ask ourselves whether there are things we’ve taken for granted over the years.
Thanking people not only prevents us from taking favors for granted, but it also helps us realize all the good we actually do have in our lives.
So todah means "thank you."
The definition of Eucharist is:
Eucharist(noun)
the act of giving thanks; thanksgiving
So whether you want to tap dance about what was going on at the Last Supper, it doesn't matter.
Passover is the communal Jewish todah or eucharist.
The Last Supper was a private Jewish todah or eucharist.
These are all facts. Truth is how we perceive those facts.We all have a brain, consciousness, 12 nerves around our brain that regulate every which way we perceive things, senses, a mind, every other component of the brain, every other component of the human body, a heart, blood, water, flesh, skin, bones, dna, all of the same exact sources needed for survival, a physical body we reside in, a physical earth we all live on, the exact same earth, the exact same sun, the exact same moon, the exact same universe, the exact same environment of perfection to live, our physical aspects all decay and die, we all came from a womb of a woman, we all live now and our lives are in a series of presents, never living in the past or future, many more. Anything else you can think of or these all partial and/or subjective?
NulliuSinVerba,Does Christianity view cannibalism as objectively immoral?
Christians will sometimes claim that they have the benefit of "Objective Morality." By "objective morality" they typically mean that morality is as unambiguous as "1+1=2" and that they know this to be objectively true by virtue of divine revelation from their deity.
However, the Christian Bible appears to be suspiciously silent when it comes to unequivocally condemning the horrific act of cannibalism. Even Christian sources will recognize this:
“Although there is no direct statement such as, 'Thou shalt not eat human flesh,' the obvious indication from Scripture is that cannibalism is a terrible evil.” ~ from gotquestions.org
Is that true? "Evil" as in "no human enjoys being devoured by other humans" (read: subjective morality) or "Evil" as in "God has revealed it to be against His Will (read: objective morality)?"
...
Shall we examine the scriptures cited by gotquestions.org to support its claim that the Bible views cannibalism as a terrible (and presumably "objective") evil?
“Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.” ~ Genesis 9:3
Everything? Really?
Before any Christians can start sharpening their knives, the site goes on to qualify on behalf of the Bible:
“However, God specifies that the “food for you” does not include fellow human beings." ~ from gotquestions.org
As evidence, they apparently felt that the following verse was conclusive:
"Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.” ~ Genesis 9:6
If we assume that “shed blood” is a euphemism for cannibalism, then rather than establishing that cannibalism is wrong, this verse merely asserts that those who shed blood will have their blood shed.
Doesn't this sound rather more like “dog eat dog” than “don't eat each other?”
...
The site goes on to say:
“But what about cannibalizing someone who is already dead (necro-cannibalism) in order to prevent starvation? This is not an entirely hypothetical question, as “survival cannibalism” has indeed occurred. Those who have resorted to cannibalism to stave off starvation include the Donner party in 1846 and the survivors of a 1972 plane crash in the Andes. However, given the Bible’s wholly negative portrayal of cannibalism, it would seem that self-preservation cannot justify such barbarism. Even in the direst and most desperate circumstances, cannibalism should not be a consideration.” ~ from gotquestions.org
However, the Bible clearly (and repeatedly) indicates that even in the direst and most desperate circumstance, cannibalism is a consideration and it acknowledges that it will happen:
"You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters." ~ Leviticus 26:29
Doesn't that sound suspiciously like an order? Although this verse indicates that God can punish people by reducing them to cannibalism, it fails to condemn the practice outright. In fact, rather than condemn the act of cannibalism, the Bible appears to indicate that God utilizes it as a method of instruction.
"Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you." ~ Deuteronomy 28:53
Again, the lack of a prohibition against cannibalism is conspicuously absent.
"I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh because their enemies will press the siege so hard against them to destroy them." ~ Jeremiah 19:9
Cannibalism is apparently recognized as a by-product of war. However, as the gotquestions website concedes, it isn't condemned. The scriptures are silent even when the question is asked directly:
"Look, LORD, and consider: Whom have you ever treated like this? Should women eat their offspring, the children they have cared for? Should priest and prophet be killed in the sanctuary of the Lord? ~ Lamentations 2:20
Again, this question is essentially posed directly to God himself: Should women eat their offspring? Yet the question remains unanswered. Why is that?
"With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed." ~ Lamentations 4:10
Compassionate women can cook and eat their own children? Seriously? Would any sane person characterize such behavior as "compassionate?"
...
"Therefore in your midst parents will eat their children, and children will eat their parents. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds." ~ Ezekiel 5:10
It appears that the best that the Bible can do is describe cannibalism as a punishment sent by God.
...
Q - Is the Bible silent on the morality of cannibalism because God knew that one day he'd be urging his followers to eat human flesh (in the literal sense or not) in remembrance of him?
Who knows?
...
“Scripture gives no explicit command against cannibalism.” ~ from gotquestions.org
...
Suggestion: The next time a Christian gets up on their high horse and proclaims that they have received a clear and objective morality via their religion, ask them to explain why their holy scriptures are so nebulous on the issue of cannibalism. If they agree that cannibalism is objectively wrong, but they cannot cite a biblical source to account for their morality, ask them if it might be that they're in fact obtaining their morality from a non-biblical source.
It might even be the case that they'll actually be able to cite a bit of scripture that does unequivocally condemn the practice. However, if they're obliged to concede that their scriptures are indeed silent on the issue, allow me to suggest that you extend a sincere invitation to have them over for dinner some time.
NulliuSinVerba,Does Christianity view cannibalism as objectively immoral?
Christians will sometimes claim that they have the benefit of "Objective Morality." By "objective morality" they typically mean that morality is as unambiguous as "1+1=2" and that they know this to be objectively true by virtue of divine revelation from their deity.
However, the Christian Bible appears to be suspiciously silent when it comes to unequivocally condemning the horrific act of cannibalism. Even Christian sources will recognize this:
“Although there is no direct statement such as, 'Thou shalt not eat human flesh,' the obvious indication from Scripture is that cannibalism is a terrible evil.” ~ from gotquestions.org
Is that true? "Evil" as in "no human enjoys being devoured by other humans" (read: subjective morality) or "Evil" as in "God has revealed it to be against His Will (read: objective morality)?"
...
Shall we examine the scriptures cited by gotquestions.org to support its claim that the Bible views cannibalism as a terrible (and presumably "objective") evil?
“Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.” ~ Genesis 9:3
Everything? Really?
Before any Christians can start sharpening their knives, the site goes on to qualify on behalf of the Bible:
“However, God specifies that the “food for you” does not include fellow human beings." ~ from gotquestions.org
As evidence, they apparently felt that the following verse was conclusive:
"Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.” ~ Genesis 9:6
If we assume that “shed blood” is a euphemism for cannibalism, then rather than establishing that cannibalism is wrong, this verse merely asserts that those who shed blood will have their blood shed.
Doesn't this sound rather more like “dog eat dog” than “don't eat each other?”
...
The site goes on to say:
“But what about cannibalizing someone who is already dead (necro-cannibalism) in order to prevent starvation? This is not an entirely hypothetical question, as “survival cannibalism” has indeed occurred. Those who have resorted to cannibalism to stave off starvation include the Donner party in 1846 and the survivors of a 1972 plane crash in the Andes. However, given the Bible’s wholly negative portrayal of cannibalism, it would seem that self-preservation cannot justify such barbarism. Even in the direst and most desperate circumstances, cannibalism should not be a consideration.” ~ from gotquestions.org
However, the Bible clearly (and repeatedly) indicates that even in the direst and most desperate circumstance, cannibalism is a consideration and it acknowledges that it will happen:
"You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters." ~ Leviticus 26:29
Doesn't that sound suspiciously like an order? Although this verse indicates that God can punish people by reducing them to cannibalism, it fails to condemn the practice outright. In fact, rather than condemn the act of cannibalism, the Bible appears to indicate that God utilizes it as a method of instruction.
"Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you." ~ Deuteronomy 28:53
Again, the lack of a prohibition against cannibalism is conspicuously absent.
"I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh because their enemies will press the siege so hard against them to destroy them." ~ Jeremiah 19:9
Cannibalism is apparently recognized as a by-product of war. However, as the gotquestions website concedes, it isn't condemned. The scriptures are silent even when the question is asked directly:
"Look, LORD, and consider: Whom have you ever treated like this? Should women eat their offspring, the children they have cared for? Should priest and prophet be killed in the sanctuary of the Lord? ~ Lamentations 2:20
Again, this question is essentially posed directly to God himself: Should women eat their offspring? Yet the question remains unanswered. Why is that?
"With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed." ~ Lamentations 4:10
Compassionate women can cook and eat their own children? Seriously? Would any sane person characterize such behavior as "compassionate?"
...
"Therefore in your midst parents will eat their children, and children will eat their parents. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds." ~ Ezekiel 5:10
It appears that the best that the Bible can do is describe cannibalism as a punishment sent by God.
...
Q - Is the Bible silent on the morality of cannibalism because God knew that one day he'd be urging his followers to eat human flesh (in the literal sense or not) in remembrance of him?
Who knows?
...
“Scripture gives no explicit command against cannibalism.” ~ from gotquestions.org
...
Suggestion: The next time a Christian gets up on their high horse and proclaims that they have received a clear and objective morality via their religion, ask them to explain why their holy scriptures are so nebulous on the issue of cannibalism. If they agree that cannibalism is objectively wrong, but they cannot cite a biblical source to account for their morality, ask them if it might be that they're in fact obtaining their morality from a non-biblical source.
It might even be the case that they'll actually be able to cite a bit of scripture that does unequivocally condemn the practice. However, if they're obliged to concede that their scriptures are indeed silent on the issue, allow me to suggest that you extend a sincere invitation to have them over for dinner some time.
These are all facts. Truth is how we perceive those facts.
Battle? Or, perception can be a communal activity -- a community truth.Then perception comes from the mind of the individual, a battle within one's head .
How about when it comes to doing that to rabbis?Did you ever notice that when you buy flatware it does not come with instructions about abstaining from shoving a knife into your dog's anus.
Battle? Or, perception can be a communal activity -- a community truth.
It depends.Where does anyone's perception, individually or collectively derive from?
How about when it comes to doing that to rabbis?
It depends.
Of course, "one's own mind" isn't objective -- it's subjective.Only objective and rational place is within the head, the mind and the brain, which creates ones individual reality and perception.
Of course, "one's own mind" isn't objective -- it's subjective.