So... do you believe that those unfortunate souls on the other side of the planet are going to Hell because the prophet appeared on a different side of the planet than they live on?
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We would never visit our wrath (chastise any community) until We had sent a Messenger to give warning. Quran 17:15[/SIZE][/FONT].
If a messenger never came to a people. They're exempt from punishment. That's IF a messenger never came.
I see, so Islam isn't believed through faith but rather reason -- is that what you're saying? If you're saying it's believed through evidence, then it is not faith.
If you assert that believing something because of evidence is "faith," can you please define exactly what you mean by faith? Most of the time "faith" is used to mean a belief without or in spite of evidence. But you seem to be saying that Muslims believe in God because of evidence. Please help me figure out what your definition of "faith" is because I find a contradiction there.
He (the inquirer[Angel Gabriel]) said: Inform me about Iman (faith). He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth.
While we're at it, can you share some of the evidence that Islam and only Islam is the correct religion so that I might be convinced by the evidence and escape hell (i.e., push the correct button on my land mine)?
It is in my greatest hopes that you do escape hell. However Evidence always has a scope of credibility depending on an individual's belief system.
For example, if a Christian asked me the same question, their belief system entailing faith in God already leaves me with naught else but proving to them that Islam is the correct way to follow him. And I have tons of evidence for that, providing they believe in their own scriptures.
You however, I assume do not believe in God (forgive me if I'm wrong). That leaves me with having to prove that first. It's like trying to prove the possibility of a quark star forming in the universe without a person first knowing what a hadron is yet or believing it exists.
Can you describe colours to a person who was blind from birth? I will first have to provide you with that sight, i.e. one step at a time. The first being, proving the existence of God which would require a whole topic of its own and far longer posts than we already have now.
But I don't "know deep inside" that Islam is correct. When I look at what I know about Islam it looks very incorrect. Why would that be if what you're saying is true?
Surah Hajj 22:46:
"Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts."
That's why.
Isn't it a bit asinine to assert that someone you're discussing with knows deep down inside that you're right? What if I said you know deep inside that Islam is false? Wouldn't that be just as baseless as what you said?
I didn't say that you know deep down. I said it's known by nature of the soul. External influences can corrupt your thoughts and deliberation before you even become in tune with that nature.
So, are you saying God is satisfied with most people going to Hell because they have no evidence or basis to believe in Islam? Because that's the case with me. If God is sending me to Hell because I don't believe in Islam because he failed to give me evidence for it, doesn't Allah share some of the responsibility for that?
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We would never visit our wrath (chastise any community) until We had sent a Messenger to give warning. Quran 17:15[/SIZE][/FONT].
Not according to Him. Right now, I'm a simple messenger, giving you a warning. If you are to believe in future, it will only happen in due time.
In fact, it does indeed still appear to be the case that Allah hands us a land mine with 50 buttons. You haven't really argued effectively for how it isn't that way in your belief system.
Yes I have. God gave man clear proof of his existence and Kingdom and then left us with free will to do as we want. That also includes corrupting others to the point where it seems like a landmine with 50 buttons.
Besides, Abrahamic faith makes up for around 60-65% of the world currently. The odds right now seem above 50/50 as opposed to your 1/50.
How lucky for those who were able to see that direct evidence -- that doesn't help me, a Hellbound soul over here in America. Why has Allah forsaken me?
I'm sorry to hear that. Besides, I doubt he's forsaken you. Generally no one's forsaken till they're dead.
Free will is worthless if I can't make an informed decision.
All free will is worth to me, is my ticket to heaven or hell. If heaven and hell is nothing to you, which I assume they are. Then yes it is worth nothing.
As for making an informed decision. For some people, seeing is believing. For others, feeling. For some absolutely nothing is enough. To what degree of evidence do you need? That will be nice to know.
Again, you're saying God handed me a land mine with 50 buttons and I don't know which one to push.
Uh... no am not.
You're also saying that God at times shows some people which button to push.
Hmm... so how often do you suppose he should come? Every year? Month? Week?
But that's not helping me. Why don't I know which button to push to save myself? Why hasn't God helped me out like he helped other people out with direct evidence?
Am I not cool enough for Allah?
You don't know, but if truth is indeed what you want and you do turn to God, then you will.
Do you think it's fair that I have this land mine and I don't know which button to push?
I'm sorry you feel that way, and no I don't think it's fair.
Is God a good and just god for doing that to me?
Well if you never turn to him, it's gonna seem like that. Guidance follows from belief and truth to the self.
Again you've argued that God has shown some people which button to push (those who saw direct evidence of God and direct evidence of his prophets) but that isn't helping me and billions of other people.
It's helped billions for as far as I've been informed.
You haven't really answered the land mine analogy... it still seems to apply. And it still seems to make Allah look like a jerk for condemning so many people to eternal anguish over a childish game he wants to play.
Your landmine analogy is flawed. God doesn't need to pop up every 10 minutes to say "Hey am still here lol". That, is more jerk like imo.
God gave man Prophets, as well as the Holy Quran. Man's corrupt ways and Satan's rebellious influence is what makes things so difficult. However we still have eaqual opportunity.
If you turn to God, seeking guidance in truth. You will be guided. Not matter what religion you fall upon, as long as you stay true to yourself and God, you will find salvation and the true way in the end. And even if you're confused as heck and have no idea which way to follow God. He says the only sin he will not forgive for is idolatry. You do not have a 50 button landmine in your hands. Nuff said.
