Why don't ALLAH come down and say I am GOD so that every one will be a Muslim

[A Thousand Suns]

A logical answer to that by Dr Zakir Naik---hope it helps

[youtube]BgNKA-_SeKU[/youtube]
YouTube - Why don't ALLAH come down and say I am GOD so that every one will be a Muslim? Dr Zakir Naik

 

[IslamDude]

Ok... before someone who doesn't share the same beliefs comes and dismantles this with a blistering fireball. I'm just going to say that comparing a Teacher giving students and examination/test to God testing mankind doesn't exactly add up. Your exam is something you intentionally attended, agreed with the teacher and then maybe forgot the answers later. The result of failure, is that you PHAIL. Faith is something you may not have bought into at all. the result of failure is that you burn in hell fire forever. So these are entirely different scenarios entailing different meanings, purposes and consequences. Dr. Zakir Naik is a great man and I have a lot of respect for him for all the work he's done around the world. But... what works in a lecture won't necessarily stand on its own in a debate.

 

[Madhuri]

I don't think that the Abrahamic God teaches very well, to be honest. And that is why religions are constantly telling us that we have to have faith. Why? Because we don't know the answers. We just have to trust what the books and other people are telling us otherwise we might go to hell.

I will say though, that my direct experience of reality has lead me to follow Vedic philosophy. In that sense, God has shown me truth to some extent. And what I really love about Hinduism is that it doesn't just say 'believe this or tough luck', it gives us a process to come to Realise truth, to Realise God. Then there is no question of faith, because there is perfect Knowing.

But there is no 'us' and 'them', ie/ believers and non-believers of truth. We're all just people, struggling through life trying to figure things out the best we can. We're covered by incredible ignorance. The journey to understanding truth is not simple or easy. And life cannot be about getting the answer right. It is so much more deep than that. Life is a process of development. In the end, we all realise truth. But as we can see, this does not happen in one single lifetime. No, too many people end one life just as ignorant of wisdom as when that life begun. And I don't blame them for having been given the appropriate life challenges or intellect.

So, to the OP, I do not agree with many of the statements made in that video. In fact, according to my religion, God does descend on this planet from time to time. But due to the nature of this world, the coverings of illusion, the average person cannot recognise God. Until we reach a certain point in our development of consciousness (spirituality), we are not open to seeing beyond the coverings of illusion.

 

[Madhuri]

Dr. Zakir Naik is a great man and I have a lot of respect for him for all the work he's done around the world. But... what works in a lecture won't necessarily stand on its own in a debate.

I have very little respect for this man. He is a great Muslim scholar it seems, but it also seems he has made it his mission to spread lies about Hinduism. For that reason I cannot respect his mission in the least.

 

[IslamDude]

Besides, God has already addressed this topic in the Quran.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]

Surah 6:158

Do they then wait for anything other than that the angels should come to them, or that your Lord (Allah) should come, or that some of the Signs of your Lord should come [/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif](i.e. portents of the Hour e.g., rising of the sun from the west)! The day that some of the Signs of your Lord do come, no good will it do to a person to believe then, if he believed not before, nor earned good (by performing deeds of righteousness) through his Faith. Say: "Wait you! we [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif](too) are waiting." Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad SAW) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.

[/FONT]Basically, when he does come, it'll be for judgement and way too late. The whole point was to believe in in God from the unseen. Otherwise faith would be much of a test, just a Holy Rule on earth, defeating the concept of free will, good and evil.

 

[Madhuri]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]Basically, when he does come, it'll be for judgement and way too late. The whole point was to believe in in God from the unseen. Otherwise faith would be much of a test, just a Holy Rule on earth, defeating the concept of free will, good and evil.

There is something I struggle to understand, and that is the Abrahamic concept of free will. How can free will exist when the options are: surrender to God or go to Hell.

It would be free will if there was no punishment involved, don't you think?

 

[IslamDude]

I don't think that the Abrahamic God teaches very well, to be honest.

Why's that?

And that is why religions are constantly telling us that we have to have faith. Why? Because we don't know the answers. We just have to trust what the books and other people are telling us otherwise we might go to hell.

Well, the point is that...

"And if, as is sure, there comes to you guidance from Me, whomsoever follows my guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. But those, who reject Faith and belie our Signs, they shall be companions of Fire, They shall abide therein." (Surah 2:38-39)

Guidance has come to you all, and it's up to you to follow it. Not it is also mentioned in the Quran that guidance avails not the wickedly corrupt, and those that reject truth.

I'm not saying this sounds appealing. Just stating why people go to hell.

I will say though, that my direct experience of reality has lead me to follow Vedic philosophy. In that sense, God has shown me truth to some extent. And what I really love about Hinduism is that it doesn't just say 'believe this or tough luck', it gives us a process to come to Realise truth, to Realise God. Then there is no question of faith, because there is perfect Knowing.

But there is no 'us' and 'them', ie/ believers and non-believers of truth. We're all just people, struggling through life trying to figure things out the best we can. We're covered by incredible ignorance. The journey to understanding truth is not simple or easy. And life cannot be about getting the answer right. It is so much more deep than that. Life is a process of development. In the end, we all realise truth. But as we can see, this does not happen in one single lifetime. No, too many people end one life just as ignorant of wisdom as when that life begun. And I don't blame them for having been given the appropriate life challenges or intellect.

So, to the OP, I do not agree with many of the statements made in that video. In fact, according to my religion, God does descend on this planet from time to time. But due to the nature of this world, the coverings of illusion, the average person cannot recognise God. Until we reach a certain point in our development of consciousness (spirituality), we are not open to seeing beyond the coverings of illusion.

Well I can't argue with your personal beliefs/experiences. I'll just say I respect your point of view.

 

[IslamDude]

I have very little respect for this man. He is a great Muslim scholar it seems, but it also seems he has made it his mission to spread lies about Hinduism. For that reason I cannot respect his mission in the least.

I had no idea about these things. If that's true then I'm sorry to hear that.

There is something I struggle to understand, and that is the Abrahamic concept of free will. How can free will exist when the options are: surrender to God or go to Hell.

It would be free will if there was no punishment involved, don't you think?

Well I still think you're free to choose. Heaven or Hell. There are even some Muslims that say screw it, am just gonna be a sinner and go to hell. Even though they believe.

Everyone has the choice. However let's try to keep the free will debate on the free will topic.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Why don't ALLAH come down and say I am GOD so that every one will be a Muslim

People need to be free to refuse Him if their conversion to Islam would mean anything at all. Allah would have to override the free will given to everybody if this worldwide conversion to Islam were to happen.

 

[Madhuri]

Why's that?

Because most followers are only believers, not knowers. Believers are usually just as ignorant as non-believers. Ie/ the reasons for that belief is due to a number of factors such as being born into a religion, being indoctrinated, social reasons- so rarely to do with some deep realisation. I most certainly do not agree with any statement which declares that God shows truth to everyone and those who do not accept it are purposefully defying God. No, most people do not want hell or torture. If they reject one philosophy it is because they feel they have no good or sane reason to follow it.

Well, the point is that...

"And if, as is sure, there comes to you guidance from Me, whomsoever follows my guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. But those, who reject Faith and belie our Signs, they shall be companions of Fire, They shall abide therein." (Surah 2:38-39)

Guidance has come to you all, and it's up to you to follow it. Not it is also mentioned in the Quran that guidance avails not the wickedly corrupt, and those that reject truth.

I'm not saying this sounds appealing. Just stating why people go to hell.

Guidance may come to everyone, but it sure comes in different forms. Millions of people feel Jesus' guidance and are thus Christians. Millions of people feel guidance from various religions or faiths and are thus pulled into it. But then you have the Christians who say that anyone who does not accept Jesus as God will go to hell and they feel very strongly about this because of that intense 'guidance', those strong feelings and experiences. You have Muslims saying the same thing. You have Hindus saying the same thing. Everyone has just as much 'guidance' and feeling and conviction about the truth of their faith. So who goes to hell? Should we expect people to know how to distinguish between one feeling of guidance and another? Or do we accept that most people, irrespective of religion, are on the right path?

 

[Kerr]

Well I still think you're free to choose. Heaven or Hell. There are even some Muslims that say screw it, am just gonna be a sinner and go to hell. Even though they believe.

Everyone has the choice. However let's try to keep the free will debate on the free will topic.

And in a world where there are so many different ideas of what path leads to heaven and what path leads to hell, how can you expect people to make a correct choice?

 

[Madhuri]

Well I still think you're free to choose. Heaven or Hell. There are even some Muslims that say screw it, am just gonna be a sinner and go to hell. Even though they believe.

Everyone has the choice. However let's try to keep the free will debate on the free will topic.

It seems strange that God would go to all the trouble of setting up a complex universe for the purpose of giving people a choice between heaven and a realm of torture. Was he thinking, before creating man, that maybe some people enjoy pain and so he should give them an opportunity?

But then, isn't it the Muslim belief that Allah created man in this way so that they could love him by choice? But is it really love if you make a selfish choice based on one's destination in the afterlife?

(I'm not worried about this slight deviation, because it is still related to Allah keeping his distance from Earth and the purpose of that)

 

[Wombat]

And in a world where there are so many different ideas of what path leads to heaven and what path leads to hell, how can you expect people to make a correct choice?

Find the common ground/path in ALL and follow that-

The Golden Rule

 

[PolyHedral]

People need to be free to refuse Him if their conversion to Islam would mean anything at all. Allah would have to override the free will given to everybody if this worldwide conversion to Islam were to happen.

Allah doesn't have to override anything. Writing "We are sorry for the inconvenience" on a mountainside in letters 200ft high would be pretty undeniable evidence for His existence.

 

[IslamDude]

And in a world where there are so many different ideas of what path leads to heaven and what path leads to hell, how can you expect people to make a correct choice?

We don't actually. We expect 999/1000 to make the wrong choice =/

It seems strange that God would go to all the trouble of setting up a complex universe for the purpose of giving people a choice between heaven and a realm of torture. Was he thinking, before creating man, that maybe some people enjoy pain and so he should give them an opportunity?

Well I can't say why God would do all this. All I know is what was mentioned in the Quran:

Surah 67:2

He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving.

Do the reason he created life and death was to demonstrate who would do the best among his creation.

But then, isn't it the Muslim belief that Allah created man in this way so that they could love him by choice? But is it really love if you make a selfish choice based on one's destination in the afterlife?

(I'm not worried about this slight deviation, because it is still related to Allah keeping his distance from Earth and the purpose of that)

I'm sorry I don't have the answer for that question. I love God for all he's given me and I also deem the afterlife as an important factor of my beliefs. As for someone who's beliefs are totally based on the afterlife, I'm not sure where they stand.

 

[Wandered Off]

The whole point was to believe in in God from the unseen. Otherwise faith would be much of a test, just a Holy Rule on earth, defeating the concept of free will, good and evil.

This is a non-sequitur. Proof of existence in no way compromises free will. If anything, it enhances free will by adding vital certainty of consequences to our decisions.

If I appeared at your door, you wouldn't suddenly lose free will about whether to do what I tell you.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/61358-would-proof-eliminate-free-will.html

 

[nameless]

A Thousand Suns,

i think you missed one of my post

 

[IslamDude]

This is a non-sequitur. Proof of existence in no way compromises free will. If anything, it enhances free will by adding vital certainty of consequences to our decisions.

If I appeared at your door, you wouldn't suddenly lose free will about whether to do what I tell you.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/61358-would-proof-eliminate-free-will.html

Lol no that's not what I'm saying. The concept of free will, good and evil in Islam relies on believing in God from the unseen. You see there's a great reward for that.

The Angels, also his creation are the ones that he does directly interact and communicate with as far as I've been taught. And these are the ones that follow him without stint.

We will get a greater reward than the Angels for worship simply because it's all so simple for them. Whereas we have things a lot more complicated and countless paths.

Stand alone free will is a concept independent from Islamic doctrines. Sorry I never made that clear.

 

[IslamDude]

the same zakir naik again, he is a dirty moron ....

A Thousand Suns,

i think you missed one of my post
you still believe this guy has no mental disorder?

Peace, man. Peace.

 

[142857]

If Allah turned everyone muslim it would undermine the word of the koran.
According to which "most men" will burn on the day of judgment.

Allah doesn't want all of us to be saved.