firedragon
Veteran Member
So you are discrediting him right?
Also you wish completely focus on one man that I mentioned and by discrediting him you think of achieving what?
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Why don't atheists accept they are so evangelical and apologetic?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
So you are discrediting him right?
Also you wish completely focus on one man that I mentioned and by discrediting him you think of achieving what?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Of course. You were aiming at character assassination rather than address the OP from the beginning, and you thought you found a tool. I know this is inevitable and already mentioned this would be an event in the OP.
This is very insightful!
After leaving christianity, one of the first things I did was to try and rip out the hard wiring being brought up in the religion had burdened me with. Thankfully I've gotten much of it out! Every once in a while I'll say or do something and think "where did that come from?" Only to find something else I missed that I need to remove.
30 years of indoctrination leaves it's mark for sure.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Do you think my posts here are evangelical & apologetic?I have seen arguments like "this verse in my opinion says this" with no regard to what it means. I mean "dogmatic refusal". I have also seen arguments like "God SHOULD HAVE kept languages without changing" so that we don't have to study an ancient language.
Recently there was an argument about a particular verse where the atheist picked up this argument from a "missionary website" but had no clue about it. Very dogmatic faith in a missionary website. What was more strange is that every single one of these episodes were found with other atheists defending this atheist so tribalistically (If there is such a word). Defend my brethren religiously with no regard to who or what is right. This is blind faith and tribalism.
Generally atheists accuse the "religious" of these same traits, but my opinion is that Atheists display these traits immensely but they so religiously deny it, together. The United Nations publication "State of the World’s Indigenous Peoples" has a definition for religion that has all of these traits as the definition. Its a strange thing. One would find the refusal of this also to be "Highly Dogmatic".
Let me state something from the Islamic point of view. The word used in the Qur'an for "religion" is the arabic word "Dheen". But, in all honesty, these two words are very different in meaning. Of course even this explanation can expect a dogmatic retort from someone who says "no. In my opinion they mean the same". Nope. Try to analyse it rather than making a dogmatic faith statement. After all, atheists are supposed to be analytical and scientific as most would claim.
The etymology of the word “religion” is very different from that of dheen, and are in fact, different concepts. Some maintain, as did Cicero, that it comes from relegere, meaning, “to treat carefully.” Others follow the fourth-century Christian apologist Lactantius, who maintains that it derives from religare, “to bind.” As Lactantius writes, “We are tied to God and bound to Him (religati) by the bond of piety, and it is from this, and not, as Cicero holds, from careful consideration (relegendo), that religion has received its name. In Arabic, the word dheen means "way or system" in its essence. There have been usages where statements are made like "submission is a system based on reason". In that sentence, submission and system should be replaced by the words Islam and Dheen. The reason to adopt the famous word religion is because people are "bound" together. Does one not see that Atheists display the same symptoms? Maybe they display traits to the word religion more than a so called "religious" person would because its "dheen" for them, not religion. But I have noticed that most atheists do not with to analyse the meaning of the word Religion because they do not want to be associated with it, so they will resort to evangelical methods of denial of simple language. Also may argue that "etymologies dont matter". Actually, whatever argument that they could muster up to deny this. Thats dogmatism. The Romans used this same word as a binding to the state. Not religion. The famous Roman scholar who lived in the 1st century BC called "Cicero" accordingly used a rendition like "to select". So this is what you selected if his rendition is the "one".
One of the signs of religiosity we may observe today is this dogmatic worship of "science". Some atheists seem to claim science for themselves and deny the walking ability of science and religion together. What this seems to bring up is that dogmatic denial of a persons exegesis of his religion to be aligned with science by "hook or crook". This is a dogmatic faith that blinds reason. I address those who deny by default, and never even try and understand someones explanation but just deny no matter what. By Hook or Crook.
The general missionary response of atheists to "Religere" is that "religion is worshiping a divinity, and we don't" or something similar. But general refusal to analyse the meaning of it, and that they fit the bill in itself shows their religiosity and binding to the faith that "we are not religious". I think this is the definition of being "religious".
Another phenomenon of this level of dogmatic religiosity is the blind denial of facts when trying to blame religion for all the violence in the world forever. I have noticed that scholars who are also atheists dont do this because obviously they are more aware and I honestly have found them to extremely pragmatic and not so dogmatic. Yet, I am speaking about scholars, not evangelists and apologists that atheists seem to follow more.
Of course I expect some ad hominem and character assassination attempts even in this thread which is almost a norm. But in this matter, most atheists in this forum are pretty nice people. Yet at least one or two posts could be seen trying to attack the character of the person rather than analyse the point made in the OP. Thats ad hominem, and shows the character of the person doing it, not the other way around. One of my favourite sayings in the New Testament comes to mind: "Why do you look at the thimble in my eye when you have a plank in yours".
Anyway, this post was made as a general one and I can plead you not to get offended but try and make an analysis of what was said and provide your insight. I will truly appreciate it.
No, i am stating fact. Sorry those facts don't suit your bias but thats the way it goes when you make irrelevant claims
firedragon
Veteran Member
Im sorry. I dont remember your posts to make that kind of comment.
Character assassination after your OP. Wow, that is a doozie, a do as i say, not as i do moment or in other words, hypocrisy. Well done sir, well done.
I replied to your posts, again i am sorry that facts upset your apple cart but thats how it goes
firedragon
Veteran Member
No. I am stating facts. Sorry those facts dont suit your bias but that's the way it goes when you make irrelevant claims.
Then I suggest making it clear that
your claim is about "some" atheists.
I've no need to convert anyone.
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firedragon
Veteran Member
You replied, but as I already said, you are trying your best to build an argument to make character analysis of myself rather than addressing the points in the OP.
So I am sorry that facts like that upset your Applecart but that's how it goes.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Suggestion taken. Thank you.
Hey, I've met many fire breathing atheists who
annoy the **** out of me. So I sympathize.
Well... You've attested to the many virtues of bacon from time to time... Just sayin.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Yeah. I have met many theists like that. So we are all in the same boat.
I plead guilty.
But I have justification!
Bacon appeals to people of all faiths & non-faiths.
I'd like to sink some boats.
Wrangler
Ask And You Will Receive
Good observation. Atheism was deemed a religion by the US Supreme Court, and rightfully so. More to the point, it is less a coherent world view than opposed to a world view. By definition, atheism stands for what it is not. It posits a negation. Even then, they remain theistic centered, a-theist.
In dealing with atheists, I prefer to steer the conversation toward practicality. For instance, studies show religious people are happier, are less depressed and live longer. What better standard to use to discredit a flawed religious world view than how it negatively affects ones quality of life? They cannot state what they are for as that would destroy their inherently nihilistic negation philosophy. (Of course, they can speak for themselves individually but not atheists collectively).
I usually end conversations with atheists by telling them I will pray for them. Paradoxically, that seems to annoy them. They don't need no stinkin blessings?!
