Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[zomg]

Just for the record and trying not to be nit-picking. The last book of the bible is NOT "Revelations." It is "Revelation" as in "The Revelation of St. John the Divine."

It is not a salvation matter or anything vitally important. It's just proper and correct. When discussing the the Epistle to the Hebrews we don't shorten it to "Hebrew." If we are going to discuss the bible, let's at least get the names of the books correct.

Edward

I'm glad someone said it so I didn't have to.
:run:

 

[Katzpur]

The command in Revelations is directed towards any additional PROCHECY. GOD will provide NO ADDITIONAL PROPHETIC MESSAGE.

Why not? God said man is not supposed to add to His word. Where did He prohibit himself from ever speaking again? And why would He do such a thing?

 

[Watchmen]

This is the thread that never ends

It just goes on and on, my friends

Some people started posting it not knowing what it was

And they'll continue posting it forever just because

This is the thread that never ends

It just goes on and on, my friends

Some people started posting it not knowing what it was

And they'll continue posting it forever just because

This is the thread that never ends

 

[LittleNipper]

Why not? God said man is not supposed to add to His word. Where did He prohibit himself from ever speaking again? And why would He do such a thing?

And what needs to be said, exactly? The MESSIAH was promised --- HE came.
The Anti-CHRIST will come and we are informed of this already. GOD has won the battle already and this we are informed of.

So what exactly do you feel GOD still needs to reveal? CHRIST? Certainly not! SALVATON? It is finished! HEAVEN? Read Revelations, Chapter 21!

The ONLY reason that I see for the need of additional revelations is for the vanity and pride of those receiving such.

It is finished and the stage has been set. If someone needs to know how to live, one simply needs to read the Bible. It is all there ---- what to do, what not to do, and the results.

 

[LittleNipper]

1) God and humanity
2) God and the believer
3) God and Mary

You're forgetting the whole relationship thing.

GOD is the one who counts. The other could NOT do anything alone. You have forgotten the most important asset of the relationship...

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm glad someone said it so I didn't have to.
:run:

You are correct except the REVELATION is that of CHRIST and not Saint John. John was simply a pen GOD used to reveal HIMSELF...

 

[sojourner]

GOD is the one who counts. The other could NOT do anything alone. You have forgotten the most important asset of the relationship...

God could not love alone.

 

[sojourner]

And what needs to be said, exactly? The MESSIAH was promised --- HE came.
The Anti-CHRIST will come and we are informed of this already. GOD has won the battle already and this we are informed of.

So what exactly do you feel GOD still needs to reveal? CHRIST? Certainly not! SALVATON? It is finished! HEAVEN? Read Revelations, Chapter 21!

The ONLY reason that I see for the need of additional revelations is for the vanity and pride of those receiving such.

It is finished and the stage has been set. If someone needs to know how to live, one simply needs to read the Bible. It is all there ---- what to do, what not to do, and the results.

Apparently one needs the Holy Spirit, too, and the continuing witness of the Church, the Body of Christ on earth.

Christ did come. And he promised that we would come again. Ever hear of Parousia?

 

[LittleNipper]

God could not love alone.

GOD is love and I believe the FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT have equally and always expressed that love between themselves. They do not need humanity and never have ------ but then beliefs such as mormonism and the like are founded in making GOD needy........

 

[edward]

You are correct except the REVELATION is that of CHRIST and not Saint John. John was simply a pen GOD used to reveal HIMSELF...

It was what was revealed to St. John the Divine. It was NOT the Revelations of St. John the Divine. There is no except to what I said. It is plain and simple. I was talking about the title of the last book of the Bible.

(Why does everything have to turn into a disagreement? )

Edward

 

[LittleNipper]

Apparently one needs the Holy Spirit, too, and the continuing witness of the Church, the Body of Christ on earth.

Christ did come. And he promised that we would come again. Ever hear of Parousia?

Dealing with HIS children doesn't mean that HE has anything publically in addition to declare. JESUS is the WORD and the WORD became flesh. GOD has and is fulfilling HIS WORD. HE doesn't need to keep providing new recipes. The recipe is complete.

 

[LittleNipper]

It was what was revealed to St. John the Divine. It was NOT the Revelations of St. John the Divine. There is no except to what I said. It is plain and simple. I was talking about the title of the last book of the Bible.

(Why does everything have to turn into a disagreement? )

Edward

For the sake of clarity.

 

[sojourner]

Dealing with HIS children doesn't mean that HE has anything publically in addition to declare. JESUS is the WORD and the WORD became flesh. GOD has and is fulfilling HIS WORD. HE doesn't need to keep providing new recipes. The recipe is complete.

Doesn't mean that he doesn't, either. I don't think they're claiming a new recipe. I think they're claiming a correct recipe.

 

[Sola'lor]

New scriptural revelation ---- yes.

Ok so God will not reveal any new scripture. That answers my other question because you said no additional Prophecy but then went on to claim that God made sure proper leaders were there in the development of the Bible. That would hav ebeen prophecy. But you really mean any more scripture so that makes better sense.

So lets examine the verses in question:

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now the biggest thing that stands out to me is the use of the words "this book." This term is metioned three times. Now which book is the term "ths book" refering too? Is it the entire Bible? It's possible, but this scripture was written before the Bible even existed. So why would John use the localized term "this book" in refering to a book that does not yet exist? Strike One.

There's another clue in this passage as to what book John is refering to. He also says "the book of this prophecy"[emphasis added]. It is clear that John is refering to a specific prophecy here. The Bible is not one prophecy. The Bible wasn't revealed all at once. The Bible was compiled from writtings passed down through thousands of years. The Bible contains hundreds of prophecies. So it seems to me that if John would have been refering to the Bible here he would have said 'the book of these prophecies.' Or even 'the books of these prophecies.,' since the Bible is not one book it is many different books. It is clear that whatever book John is refering to is only about one main prophecy. It seems to me that this would probably be...the book of "THE REVELATION OF ST JOHN THE DIVINE"[emphasis added]. Strike Two.

Now even if we disregard the information contained in the two verses as to which book it is. Lets pretend for a moment that John is refering to the Bible. What heppens if I have the Old Testament and the New Testament as spereate books? Now these verses are only in one book, the New Testament. That mean they wouldn't apply to a different book, the old testament. So I could add or take away whatever I wanted with out fear. Because I'm not taking away from or adding to "this book" as in the New Testament. See it just doesn't make sense. Strike Three.

Finally, as brought up before these verses specifically state that in any man will add or take away. It does not say that God can not add or take away from this prophecy. Stirke Four. You're Out!

They do not need humanity and never have

You're right. God does not need us but He does love us because we are His children.

------ but then beliefs such as mormonism and the like are founded in making GOD needy........

In what ways does Mormonism make God needy? Perhaps this would be better for another thread because it goes a bit off topic.

 

[LittleNipper]

Ok so God will not reveal any new scripture. That answers my other question because you said no additional Prophecy but then went on to claim that God made sure proper leaders were there in the development of the Bible. That would hav ebeen prophecy. But you really mean any more scripture so that makes better sense.

So lets examine the verses in question:

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now the biggest thing that stands out to me is the use of the words "this book." This term is metioned three times. Now which book is the term "ths book" refering too? Is it the entire Bible? It's possible, but this scripture was written before the Bible even existed. So why would John use the localized term "this book" in refering to a book that does not yet exist? Strike One.

There's another clue in this passage as to what book John is refering to. He also says "the book of this prophecy"[emphasis added]. It is clear that John is refering to a specific prophecy here. The Bible is not one prophecy. The Bible wasn't revealed all at once. The Bible was compiled from writtings passed down through thousands of years. The Bible contains hundreds of prophecies. So it seems to me that if John would have been refering to the Bible here he would have said 'the book of these prophecies.' Or even 'the books of these prophecies.,' since the Bible is not one book it is many different books. It is clear that whatever book John is refering to is only about one main prophecy. It seems to me that this would probably be...the book of "THE REVELATION OF ST JOHN THE DIVINE"[emphasis added]. Strike Two.

Now even if we disregard the information contained in the two verses as to which book it is. Lets pretend for a moment that John is refering to the Bible. What heppens if I have the Old Testament and the New Testament as spereate books? Now these verses are only in one book, the New Testament. That mean they wouldn't apply to a different book, the old testament. So I could add or take away whatever I wanted with out fear. Because I'm not taking away from or adding to "this book" as in the New Testament. See it just doesn't make sense. Strike Three.

Finally, as brought up before these verses specifically state that in any man will add or take away. It does not say that God can not add or take away from this prophecy. Stirke Four. You're Out!



You're right. God does not need us but He does love us because we are His children.




In what ways does Mormonism make God needy? Perhaps this would be better for another thread because it goes a bit off topic.

With mormonism, I see eventually everything comes down to the family and man. With Christianity, it is all about GOD and HIS glory and has nothing to do about where I'll be sitting in heaven and what will happen to my relationship to my wife, and how do my children relate to that, and what of all my dead ancestors, etc., etc., etc..? Christianity is a relationship GOD establishes between HIMSELF and man for HIS glory.

 

[LittleNipper]

Doesn't mean that he doesn't, either. I don't think they're claiming a new recipe. I think they're claiming a correct recipe.

Correct? How so? What must one do to be saved? What exactly did JESUS say on that subject.

 

[sojourner]

Correct? How so? What must one do to be saved? What exactly did JESUS say on that subject.

Well, it's more "what does the church say on that subject?"

Since the Mormons operate out of a different paradigm (revelation) than we do (witness), they, of necessity, need further revelation, which would "correct" earlier revelation. Problem is, revelation cannot "correct" witness, which throws their whole "restoration" dynamic out the window. The Church never was a revelation. It was always a witness. If they really want to restore the Church, they would need to focus on witness, and not prophetic revelation.

We witness to salvation, by acting as if we're saved. They want to "reveal" a "plan" of salvation to us that we will need to "be aware of."

That's all well and good. It's an interesting exercise in Xy, and I applaud their efforts and respect their position with one little "but": But it is in no way a restoration of ancient Xy.

 

[edward]

For the sake of clarity.

How did your post further clarify the title of the last book of the Bible?

Edward

 

[Katzpur]

If someone needs to know how to live, one simply needs to read the Bible. It is all there ---- what to do, what not to do, and the results.

The only thing that's not there is God's declaration that it's all there. There is no where in the Bible where the Bible claims to be the final word from God. I know you're going to continue to insist that it is, but the fact is that you have not one shred of evidence to support that claim.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

The only thing that's not there is God's declaration that it's all there. There is no where in the Bible where the Bible claims to be the final word from God. I know you're going to continue to insist that it is, but the fact is that you have not one shred of evidence to support that claim.

If God did not speak authoratively through the Scriptures, then anything goes and the Pandora’s box is opened. All additional sources of revelation are valid, and God can speak contrary to the Bible in many ways and many forms. The Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenant, Pearl of Great Price, and modern day Mormon Prophets are as valid as the Wicca, Hindu, Muslim, Shinto, Buddha, Atheist, and all other forms of revelation from God on this world wide religious forum site. There is nothing special about the Prophet Joseph Smith because he is just one of thousands or even millions of other sources of revelation after Scripture. Ultra Violet's revelation is as valid as Joseph Smith's revelation. Hebrews 1 reveals otherwise (IMO).

Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. - Hebrews 1