Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Katzpur]

Forgive me if i did not read all of the posts between Katzpur and Roli but i don't have the amount of time it would take to read all of that argument. So could one of you simply state the points of conflict you are discussing between the Book of Mormon and the Bible

I'll let you know, as soon as we actually get that far. Right now, we seem to be stuck in the "The Book of Mormon is not the Bible so it's false" rut.

 

[DOTE]

Thanks a bunch

 

[S-word]

Why don't Christians accept the Book of Mormon to be true? It testifys of Christ our Savior, as the Messiah, the Great Mediator. And it's a solid Book, it has substance.

You don't believe there is any way that Christ would have appeared to his "Sheep of another fold" (mentioned in the bible) in the americas after his ressurection. Or that Both God and Christ would appear to a modern day prophet.

Yet, they believe that God, or even the "Mother Mary" would speak to 6 old women in Bosnia?

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on why you think the way you do.

You would have been better off asking the question, "Why would any christian accept the the book of Mormons as being true?" The book of Revelation sealed the book of life, there is no need for any other, and no other has been given by God.

 

[Katzpur]

You would have been better off asking the question, "Why would any christian accept the the book of Mormons as being true?"

That's an easy one. Here's the answer: Because it testifies of Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God and Redeemer of all who will repent of their sins and accept His atoning sacrifice on their behalf. Sounds like pretty good reading material for Christians.

The book of Revelation sealed the book of life, there is no need for any other, and no other has been given by God.

You're telling God He's through talking?

 

[S-word]

That's an easy one. Here's the answer: Because it testifies of Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God and Redeemer of all who will repent of their sins and accept His atoning sacrifice on their behalf. Sounds like pretty good reading material for Christians.

You're telling God He's through talking?

If, as you say, the book of Mormons testifies of Jesus Christ, which the authors of the book of Mormons would never have heard of unless they had read the holy scriptures of the Bible, then all it can say about the redemption that is to be found in Christ, has already been said in the Bible, and our redemption begins with the death of Christ and is fulfilled in the resurrection. I have no need of the book of the Mormons which is of no help to those who are seeking the doorway into the glorious kingdom of God which is soon to be established on earth, the glorious Temple of incorruptible light, which flesh and blood cannot inherit, where from within the new Temple of God of which Jesus was the chosen cornerstone, He, (God our saviour) will rule the whole world with justice.

He, God our saviour who rose his faithful servant Jesus from death and is able to raise we also, who are to be gathered to the cornerstone of God's new Temple which will replace his old tabernacle, which is the body of mankind in whose inner most sanctuary He (God our saviour) now dwells until the Temple is completed, where in the inner most sanctuary of the Temple of God, and after the Sabbath, when fire will have descended from heaven and destroyed all physical life forms on this planet, the old tabernacle will be stored untill conditions are again favorable for the sustainability of physical life forms, then Jesus will say to all those who are lifted up at the sound of the last trumpet, "And now, Let us make man in our image and likeness." Acts 17: 31, "For He has fixed a day (The Sabbath, the Lord's day, the seventh period of one thousands years from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died at the age of 930) in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has chosen. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death."

 

[silvermoon383]

Here we go again...

The wheels on the bus go round and round...

 

[S-word]

Here we go again...

The wheels on the bus go round and round...

The wheels of the bus go round and round
As they take the children into town
Where, through the silly games they play
They'll learn about life one day------one day.

 

[Katzpur]

If, as you say, the book of Mormons testifies of Jesus Christ, which the authors of the book of Mormons would never have heard of unless they had read the holy scriptures of the Bible, then all it can say about the redemption that is to be found in Christ, has already been said in the Bible, and our redemption begins with the death of Christ and is fulfilled in the resurrection.

Actually, the people whose story is told in the Book of Mormon were very familiar with the writings which now comprise the Old Testament. They particularly loved the words of Isaiah. You don't know much about the Book of Mormon. That's okay. A lot of people don't.

I have no need of the book of the Mormons which is of no help to those who are seeking the doorway into the glorious kingdom of God which is soon to be established on earth, the glorious Temple of incorruptible light, which flesh and blood cannot inherit, where from within the new Temple of God of which Jesus was the chosen cornerstone, He, (God our saviour) will rule the whole world with justice.

I never ceased to be amazed at how little a person can know about The Book of Mormon and still be convinced that it has no value. Have you never heard the saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover"? You've taken it a step further. You've judged it by its title which, incidentally, you got wrong.

 

[S-word]

Quote....Katzpur-------Actually, the people whose story is told in the Book of Mormon were very familiar with the writings which now comprise the Old Testament. They particularly loved the words of Isaiah. You don't know much about the Book of Mormon. That's okay. A lot of people don't.

I know! When I first read the book of the Mormons, everything within me cried out, "This is nothing more than a corruption of the writtings of Isaiah."


Quote....Katzpur----------I never ceased to be amazed at how little a person can know about The Book of Mormon and still be convinced that it has no value. Have you never heard the saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover"? You've taken it a step further. You've judged it by its title which, incidentally, you got wrong. The truth doesn't matter to you, does it? You're not here in search of the truth, you're here to play your silly little game of point scoring. The book of Mormon is the book of the Mormons, how's that girly, happy now.


I don't know how or by what means others judge the book of the Mormons, 'Myself,' I judge it by the words of the Bible, which prove to me that it is nothing more than a book of deception written by the disciples of the Anti-Christ to lead people away from the truth as revealed in God's Holy Scriptures, which satisifies the appertite of any and all who seek the bread of God, which came down from heaven.

 

[Apex]

What is the "Book of Mormons"? I have only heard of the Book of Mormon.

 

[S-word]

What is the "Book of Mormons"? I have only heard of the Book of Mormon.

The book of all Mormons is the book of Mormon, didn't cha know dat? As this is a same faith debate, I am assuming that Mormons are of the christian faith as I am.

 

[Katzpur]

Actually, the people whose story is told in the Book of Mormon were very familiar with the writings which now comprise the Old Testament. They particularly loved the words of Isaiah. You don't know much about the Book of Mormon. That's okay. A lot of people don't.

I know! When I first read the book of Mormons, everything within me cried out, "This is nothing more than a corruption of the writtings of Isaiah."

I never ceased to be amazed at how little a person can know about The Book of Mormon and still be convinced that it has no value. Have you never heard the saying, "Don't judge a book by its cover"? You've taken it a step further. You've judged it by its title which, incidentally, you got wrong.

I don't know how or by what means others judge the book of Mormons, 'Myself,' I judge it by the words of the Bible, which prove to me that it is nothing more than a book of deception written by the disciples of the Anti-Christ to lead people away from the truth as revealed in God's Holy Scriptures, which satifies the appertite of any and all who seek the bread of God, which came down from heaven.

s-word, everything you have said points to the fact that you have not read the Book of Mormon at all, at least not much of it. To begin with, your backpedaling was a dead give-away. You started out by saying that "the authors of the book of Mormons would never have heard of [Jesus Christ] unless they had read the holy scriptures of the Bible," which clearly implies that you thought they hadn't. Then you turn around and say that the book is "nothing more than a corruption of the writings of Isaiah." Isaiah is the most frequently quoted of all Old Testament prophets. He is quoted throughout the New Testament. There is no reason whatsoever to assume that the Book of Mormon prophets would not have also quoted him. If you had actually read the Book of Mormon, "everything within you" would have picked up on the fact that less than two and a half percent of the Book of Mormon is comprised of quotations from Isaiah.

Not only can't you even get the title of the book right (after I pointed out your error once), nothing you've said makes any sense in light of what it actually teaches. If I am going to debate the validity of the Book of Mormon with someone, it's going to be with someone who isn't so juvenile as to refer to me as "girly" (as you did on another thread), and who can write a coherent sentence, formulate a legitimate argument and show a measure of courtesy. This is a debate forum, not a place to rant.

 

[S-word]

s-word, everything you have said points to the fact that you have not read the Book of Mormon at all, at least not much of it. To begin with, your backpedaling was a dead give-away. You started out by saying that "the authors of the book of Mormons would never have heard of [Jesus Christ] unless they had read the holy scriptures of the Bible," which clearly implies that you thought they hadn't. Then you turn around and say that the book is "nothing more than a corruption of the writings of Isaiah." Isaiah is the most frequently quoted of all Old Testament prophets. He is quoted throughout the New Testament. There is no reason whatsoever to assume that the Book of Mormon prophets would not have also quoted him. If you had actually read the Book of Mormon, "everything within you" would have picked up on the fact that less than two and a half percent of the Book of Mormon is comprised of quotations from Isaiah.

Not only can't you even get the title of the book right (after I pointed out your error once), nothing you've said makes any sense in light of what it actually teaches. If I am going to debate the validity of the Book of Mormon with someone, it's going to be with someone who isn't so juvenile as to refer to me as "girly" (as you did on another thread), and who can write a coherent sentence, formulate a legitimate argument and show a measure of courtesy. This is a debate forum, not a place to rant.

If a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is a Mormon, then collectively the members of that church are Mormons and the book of Mormons is the book of Mormon. The words 'Girly and Matey,' are terms of endearment here in Australia, and as your gender is female man, I thought that 'Matey might not be the appropriate word to use, had I have known that 'girly' was offensive to you yanks, I would have used a different word entirely.

You insinuate that I am Juvenile and unable to write a coherent sentence or formulate a legitimate argument. then can you tell me what you are ranting on about as seen below.

Quote...Katzpur--------You started out by saying that "the authors of the book of Mormons would never have heard of [Jesus Christ] unless they had read the holy scriptures of the Bible," which clearly implies that you thought they hadn't.

How in heavens name did you come to the conclusion that my statement that the authors of the book of Mormans would never have heard of Jesus unless they had read the Holy Scriptures, imply in any way that I thought they hadn't? I know for an absolute fact that Joseph Smith had learned of Jesus from the Holy Scriptures before he decided to create his own religion.

It was while reading the two and a half percent of the book of the Mormans, that everything within me screamed out, "This is nothing more than a corruption of the writtings of Isaiah," that I threw the book that my inner spirit had condemned as rubbish into the incinerator where I believe it belonged.

The question that was asked, "Why don't christians accept the book of Mormon as valid?" Implies that Mormons are not christians.

 

[boristhescot]

I hate to say this when so many people have, but the book is not called after Mormons, rather Mormons are called after the book. The Book is named for one of thee people in it.
But as a curiosity, why would the writings of Isaiah be counted as rubbish?
Why is that you dismissed it 70 or so pages into a 500 page book and are now claiming some sort of expertise on the subject?
You do realize that it acknowledges that it is quoting from Isaiah right? It says so right in the text, and the chapter headings refer you to the chapters quoted. There was no hiding the intent. For further note, the entire Sermon on the Mount is also quoted in the same manner, also Malachi is in there, only this time being referenced by Jesus.
Another question, Jesus quoted many scriptures (including Isaiah, and "corrupted" versions of them as well), are others not granted the same privelege?
I don't see where anything but the quoted passages could be considered as having its source in Isaiah. So if you remember something about the non Isaiah passages that you found as being a corruption of Isaiah, would you please explain?

 

[S-word]

I hate to say this when so many people have, but the book is not called after Mormons, rather Mormons are called after the book. The Book is named for one of thee people in it.

But as a curiosity, why would the writings of Isaiah be counted as rubbish?
Why is that you dismissed it 70 or so pages into a 500 page book and are now claiming some sort of expertise on the subject?
You do realize that it acknowledges that it is quoting from Isaiah right? It says so right in the text, and the chapter headings refer you to the chapters quoted. There was no hiding the intent. For further note, the entire Sermon on the Mount is also quoted in the same manner, also Malachi is in there, only this time being referenced by Jesus.
Another question, Jesus quoted many scriptures (including Isaiah, and "corrupted" versions of them as well), are others not granted the same privelege?
I don't see where anything but the quoted passages could be considered as having its source in Isaiah. So if you remember something about the non Isaiah passages that you found as being a corruption of Isaiah, would you please explain?

The book of choice by the Mormons is the book of Mormon, do you not agree.
Having read many of the ‘for and against,’ as to the compilation of the Book of Mormon, I know why that religion is only 1.5% of the population. To listen to Joseph Smith’s alleged visitation of the angel with the golden plates that were returned to heaven, is like listening to the many people who believe they have received a visitation by Aliens who performed sexual experiments on them etc, all that one can say to these people is, “Well, I believe that you believe that these things occurred, But that does not necessitate that I have to believe that they did occur. I could quote from the Smithsonian Institution, which has found no evidence to support the claims of the stories told in the book of Mormon, but undoubtedly many others have already done that, and those who have been deceived by Joseph Smith, will choose to remain under the influence of his deception, while those who are genuinely in search of the truth, will reject the book and see it as the unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish that it is. The question is, “Why do Christians not accept the book of Mormon as Valid?” And this is my answer to the said question, and I hate to say this as I'm sure so many before me have already said it “ the book of Mormon is not seen as valid by true christians simply because it is not valid to anyone in search of the truth. Except for the quotations taken directly from the bible, which are like sweet currants placed in a cow pat, in order to make it more palatable to the gullible:" one does not need the book of Mormon to read the words given to us in God's Holy Scriptures which words that have come down from heaven, were spoken through the mouth of the obedient servant of the Son of Man who sits in the throne of Godhead.

 

[Katzpur]

The book of choice by the Mormons is the book of Mormon, do you not agree.

Didn't you read boristhescot's answer? Look at it this way: Suppose the only book in the Bible was "Matthew," and the Bible was known as "The Book of Matthew." Would you call the people who believed Matthew's words to be true, "Matthews" and call his book "the book of the Matthews"? That's what you're doing with the Book of Mormon. The book existed before there were ever people called Mormons.

Having read many of the ‘for and against,’ as to the compilation of the Book of Mormon, I know why that religion is only 1.5% of the population.

Do you know why two-thirds of the Church's membership today is comprised of first-generation converts and why some 900 people worldwide convert to Mormonism every day of the year?

To listen to Joseph Smith’s alleged visitation of the angel with the golden plates that were returned to heaven, is like listening to the many people who believe they have received a visitation by Aliens who performed sexual experiments on them etc, all that one can say to these people is, “Well, I believe that you believe that these things occurred,

But that does not necessitate that I have to believe that they did occur.

Yes, it takes a lot of faith to believe such a story. Joseph Smith himself said that he wouldn't blame anyone for not believing him and that if he hadn't experienced those things himself, he wouldn't have believed it either. When you get right down to it, it's just about as difficult to believe as the story about a middle-eastern virgin giving birth to God's Son. By the way, do you believe that happened? Of course you're free to reject Joseph Smith's story. Nobody is insisting that you believe it -- at least nobody on this forum.

I could quote from the Smithsonian Institution, which has found no evidence to support the claims of the stories told in the book of Mormon, but undoubtedly many others have already done that, and those who have been deceived by Joseph Smith, will choose to remain under the influence of his deception, while those who are genuinely in search of the truth, will reject the book and see it as the unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish that it is.

Of course you could, but the Smithsonian Institution would also tell you that there is no evidence to support that God created our universe. Any believer, you included, accept certain things on faith and does not require scientific proof of spiritual truths.

Since you've described the Book of Mormon as an "unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish," perhaps you could provide us with a handful of passages from it that illustrate your point. Since it is evidently so jam packed with trash, you shouldn't have a very hard time being more specific.

The question is, “Why do Christians not accept the book of Mormon as Valid?” And this is my answer to the said question, and I hate to say this as I'm sure so many before me have already said it “ the book of Mormon is not seen as valid by true christians simply because it is not valid to anyone in search of the truth, except for the quotations taken directly from the bible, which are like sweet currants placed in a cow pat, in order to make it more palatable to the gullible:" one does not need the book of Mormon to read the words given to us in God's Holy Scriptures which words that have come down from heaven, were spoken through the mouth of the obedient servant of the Son of Man who sits in the throne of Godhead.

Again, you haven't provided a single example of why you believe as you do. So far, you've said that the words of Isaiah are "like sweet currants placed in a cow pat" when quoted by the Book of Mormon prophets, but have not explained why these very same words are of God when quoted by the New Testament prophets. Let's discuss some of the passages you believe "lead people away from the truth." I'm genuinely interested in seeing the ones you select.

 

[Katzpur]

The words 'Girly and Matey,' are terms of endearment here in Australia, and as your gender is female man, I thought that 'Matey might not be the appropriate word to use, had I have known that 'girly' was offensive to you yanks, I would have used a different word entirely.

That's interesting. I had no idea you were using the word as a term of endearment. I guess it was something about the context in which it was used that made me think otherwise.

You insinuate that I am Juvenile and unable to write a coherent sentence or formulate a legitimate argument. then can you tell me what you are ranting on about as seen below.

I'm just saying that it's quite difficult to follow what you're saying when there are no periods or capital letters to separate the sentences. When things are all run together, all that is distinguishable to the reader is that you have some pretty intense negative feelings about the subject. Sometimes you just seem to be typing faster than you're actually thinking, that's all. I've misunderstood you on a couple of occasions, just because of your writing style.

Quote...Katzpur--------You started out by saying that "the authors of the book of Mormons would never have heard of [Jesus Christ] unless they had read the holy scriptures of the Bible," which clearly implies that you thought they hadn't.

How in heavens name did you come to the conclusion that my statement that the authors of the book of Mormans would never have heard of Jesus unless they had read the Holy Scriptures, imply in any way that I thought they hadn't? I know for an absolute fact that Joseph Smith had learned of Jesus from the Holy Scriptures before he decided to create his own religion.

Well, that's what it sounded like to me. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

It was while reading the two and a half percent of the book of the Mormans, that everything within me screamed out, "This is nothing more than a corruption of the writtings of Isaiah," that I threw the book that my inner spirit had condemned as rubbish into the incinerator where I believe it belonged.

Okay, well I hope to hear how this can be possible. Nephi quoted Isaiah and made it very clear that he was doing so. How is this a corruption of Isaiah's writings?

The question that was asked, "Why don't christians accept the book of Mormon as valid?" Implies that Mormons are not christians.

Yes, it does imply that, which is why I pointed out a long time ago that it was a stupid question for a member of the Church to be asking in the first place.

 

[DOTE]

First of all, Australia is awesome
Secondly I have a question for S-word
S-word,
I am a little confused on your standing with the Book of Mormon or whatever you choose to call it. Do you believe that it was actually written by ancient prophets in the Americas. Or do you believe that it was completely forged by Joseph Smith and that he made up the entire book.
i ask this sincerely knowing that some posts might be read as challenges rather than normal questions

 

[S-word]

[quote=DOTE;1379966]First of all, Australia is awesome
Secondly I have a question for S-word
S-word,
I am a little confused on your standing with the Book of Mormon or whatever you choose to call it. Do you believe that it was actually written by ancient prophets in the Americas. Or do you believe that it was completely forged by Joseph Smith and that he made up the entire book.
i ask this sincerely knowing that some posts might be read as challenges rather than normal questions[/quote]

Hi there Dote, should I call you girly or matey? I myself am a litle confused as to how anyone who has read my posts in relation to the Book of the Mormons, could possibly be confused as to my standing with the book that I have described as nothing but an unadulterated, conglomerate of writen rubbish, a cow pat to which has been added a few quotes from the Holy Scriptures in order to titillate the taste buds of the ignorant, who are snared by the trap set by Joseph Smith a disciple of the Anti-Christ, to catch those who are in pursuit of the truth.

 

[danny vee]

[quote=DOTE;1379966]First of all, Australia is awesome
Secondly I have a question for S-word
S-word,
I am a little confused on your standing with the Book of Mormon or whatever you choose to call it. Do you believe that it was actually written by ancient prophets in the Americas. Or do you believe that it was completely forged by Joseph Smith and that he made up the entire book.
i ask this sincerely knowing that some posts might be read as challenges rather than normal questions

Hi there Dote, should I call you girly or matey? I myself am a litle confused as to how anyone who has read my posts in relation to the Book of the Mormons, could possibly be confused as to my standing with the book that I have described as nothing but an unadulterated, conglomerate of writen rubbish, a cow pat to which has been added a few quotes from the Holy Scriptures in order to titillate the taste buds of the ignorant, who are snared by the trap set by Joseph Smith a disciple of the Anti-Christ, to catch those who are in pursuit of the truth. [/quote]

I'd just like to know why you think that anyone who follows Jesus' teachings, and preaches them even remotely is a disciple of the Anti-Christ. Wouldn't a disciple of evil preach against Jesus not with Him? If people are converted to Christianity and the true path through the Book of Mormon then how does it have anything to do with evil? Personally, I do not think that for example Muhammad was the false prophet spoken of in the NT because simply, his teachings, in a large part, coincide with Christianity. So it's time to ask yourself whether it really matters how God and people show Love and spread the Word. Of course forceful and abusive means are not right under any circumstances as we should choose for ourselves. But means like those wouldn't be coinciding with Love would they. So again does it matter how you show Love towards people and God as long as you show it?