Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[S-word]

Quote .....danny vee
I'd just like to know why you think that anyone who follows Jesus' teachings, and preaches them even remotely is a disciple of the Anti-Christ. Wouldn't a disciple of evil preach against Jesus not with Him?

The disciples of the Anti Christ do not preach the Jesus of the Bible, they preach another Jesus. Their Jesus was not a man who became a God, they would have you believe that the Son of Man existed before the body of mankind the most high in the creation and lord of creatures, in which the Son of Man and heir to the throne of Godhead develops.

Read 1 John 4: 1-3, and the second letter of John verse 7, these deceivers who were the disciples of the Anti-Christ were not denying that Jesus was the one promised by God in deuteronomy 18: 18, who would be one of their own people that he would send in his name, to do and say only that which he was commanded by 'Who I Am.'
But they were denying that he was a human being who was given divine glory by the God of our ancestors, see Acts 3: 13, the one that 'Who I Am' would place in his throne as the cornerstone, the first fruits of many brothers who would be gathered to Jesus in the creation on earth of the new glorious Temple of light in which God will dwell on earth among mankind, which is his current tabernacle where, from within the inner most sanctuary of his tempory tabernacle (For the kingdom of God is within you) he awaits the gathering of the required number of Jews and Gentiles in the completion of his new glorious kingdom of earth which flesh and blood cannot inherit.

For not all shall fall asleep in death, but at the sound of the last trumpet, we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter, into bodies of glorious incorruptible light.

Acts 17: 31, "For He ('Who I Am,') has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a man he has Chosen, He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that man from death."

 

[Katzpur]

Quote.....Katzpur
Didn't you read boristhescot's answer? Look at it this way: Suppose the only book in the Bible was "Matthew," and the Bible was known as "The Book of Matthew." Would you call the people who believed Matthew's words to be true, "Matthews" and call his book "the book of the Matthews"? That's what you're doing with the Book of Mormon. The book existed before there were ever people called Mormons.
If asked what Christian persuasion a person belonged to, and they who believed that the Book of Matthew was the source of their faith, answered that they were “A Mathew” as opposed to “A Mormon” who believes that the ‘Book of Mormon’ is the source of their faith, then collectively. that body of belief would be called ‘The Matthews,’ then I would indeed call the ‘Book of Matthew’ the book of the Matthews, I thought that would have been painfully obvious to anyone who had read my post.

Quote.....Katzpur
Do you know why two-thirds of the Church's membership today is comprised of first-generation converts and why some 900 people worldwide convert to Mormonism every day of the year?
Would you like me to do a search as to how many of those who had been converted to the Mormon faith, abandon that body of belief each year, or would you rather do that yourself?

Quote.....Katzpur
Yes, it takes a lot of faith to believe such a story. Joseph Smith himself said that he wouldn't blame anyone for not believing him and that if he hadn't experienced those things himself, he wouldn't have believed it either. When you get right down to it, it's just about as difficult to believe as the story about a middle-eastern virgin giving birth to God's Son. By the way, do you believe that happened? Of course you're free to reject Joseph Smith's story. Nobody is insisting that you believe it -- at least nobody on this forum.
I would believe the rubbish written by Joseph Smith and his cronies before I would ever believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, something which is not to be found in the Holy scriptures, except in the yeast that was later added by the disciples of the church of the Anti-Christ, See 1 John 4: 1-3, and 2 John, verses seven and eight, who refused to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being; for Jesus was born of the flesh by human parents, ‘Mary and Joseph,’ the children of two different mothers and yet both sired by Heli the Levite, a descendant of Nathan who had married the daughter of King David, and who was the biological son of Uriah and Bathsheba, and this Joseph who is recorded as the biological father of Jesus ‘See Luke 3: 23,’ is not to be confused with Joseph the Son of Jacob of the tribe of Judah, who is descended through the genetic line of Solomon the half brother to Nathan, both being the children of Bathsheba, but sired by different Fathers.
Isaac the prototype of Jesus, who like Jesus was born of God's promise according to the workings of the Holy Spirit, whose parents, 'Abraham and Sarah,' like the parents of Jesus, were both sired by the same Father 'Terah,' from two different mothers, and Jesus and Isaac, were both offered up as a sacrifice by their Fathers, and were both offered up on the same mountain.

Quote.....Katzpur
Of course you could, but the Smithsonian Institution would also tell you that there is no evidence to support that God created our universe. Any believer, you included, accept certain things on faith and does not require scientific proof of spiritual truths.

O! I’m sure that the Smithsonian Institution would have the evidence that the invisible singularity that was in the beginning as an infinitely dense and infinitely hot, infinitesimally small primordial Atom, blasted out and has become all that exists in this living universal body, which is but the physical manifestation of the eternal evolving invisible mind that is God.
It is from this undeniable truth that I know that ‘Who I Am,’ is joined to the beginning by an eternal and unbroken genetic thread of life, and that ‘Who I Am,’ was one within the invisible singularity that is the ‘Alpha,’ and is still one with he who is the divine animating principle which activates and pervades the entire living universal body that he has become, and that ‘Who I Am,’ will be one with the Omega, and as Long as I remain true to, and one with ‘Who I Am,’ then death can have no power over me, O, I know that all physical Matter must be reconverted to energy which in turn must cool down to become physical matter again.
But I, ‘The Mind,' The invisible Spirit who is a child of the invisible Spirit=mind that is the Logos, which manifests itself as the living universal body, which child of God has developed in the body of the Most High in the creation, cannot die.

Quote.....Katzpur
Since you've described the Book of Mormon as an "unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish," perhaps you could provide us with a handful of passages from it that illustrate your point. Since it is evidently so jam packed with trash, you shouldn't have a very hard time being more specific.

Does the book of the Mormons, quote the rubbish that was introduced into the Bible by the disciples of the Anti-Christ, who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, and have gone beyond the truth of God, and claim that the supreme personality of the Godhead to this universal body, ‘Who Is the Son of Man,’ existed before the body of mankind in which he developed?

Again, you haven't provided a single example of why you believe as you do. So far, you've said that the words of Isaiah are "like sweet currants placed in a cow pat" when quoted by the Book of Mormon prophets, but have not explained why these very same words are of God when quoted by the New Testament prophets. Let's discuss some of the passages you believe "lead people away from the truth." I'm genuinely interested in seeing the ones you select.

What I said was, that the little bits and pieces of the Holy Scriptures that have been taken and added to the unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish, that is called the ‘Book of Mormon’ are simply likened to sweet currants that have been added to the cow pat that is the book of the Mormons, in order to make it more palatable to the gullible, who have been deceived by Joseph Smith.
Or a better way to put it, would be, that the bits and pieces taken from the Lamb of God which should be eaten wholly and in the one place, were broken off the sacrificial Lamb of God (Something that is forbidden) and taken away to be added to an unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish, in order to titillate the taste buds of the searchers of truth, to lead them astray and away from the place of worship were the whole lamb is to be eaten, head, hoofs, intestines and all, even those bits which may seem offensive to our spiritual taste buds.
If you want that we should continue to discuss the contents of the book of the Mormons, then please ask, and I will research the book in more detail and I will put forward the statements in the book that I would like you to answer to, which you can then clarify for the readers of this thread.

S-word, I don't believe I want to continue this discussion. It's just not going anywhere, and I don't enjoy being insulted. Since you didn't answer any of my questions, I see no compelling reason to believe that you really want to engage in a dialogue of any sort. Have a nice day, matey.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

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9-10ths_Penguin
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[roli]

Katz ,do you understand why born again believer's don't accept the book of Mormon as valid.
I mean have you seen anything in all these posts to validate our position,
..or are you still unsure of our reasons ?

 

[Watchmen]

Katz ,do you understand why born again believer's don't accept the book of Mormon as valid.
I mean have you seen anything in all these posts to validate our position,
..or are you still unsure of our reasons ?

I don't know, roli. It's tough to get past the insults sometimes.

 

[S-word]

I don't know, roli. It's tough to get past the insults sometimes.

What a pity that the Mormons do not have the non-existent gold plates from which Joseph Smith is supposed to have transcribed his fraudulent work. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to rub them in the face of those by whom they are insulted? Those who would insinuate that the ‘Book of Mormon,’ is nothing more than an unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish and is likened to a cow pat to which bits and pieces of God’s holy scripture have been added, which scriptures are likened to sweet currants in order to make it (The cow pat) more palatable to the gullible, and to titillate the spiritual taste buds of those who have been deceived by Joseph Smith. But alas! The gold plates are non-existent: I wonder, do you suppose, if this could be the reason why those who believe in the Jesus as recorded in the holy scriptures, do not accept the book of the Mormons as being valid?

 

[Watchmen]

What a pity that the Mormons do not have the non-existent gold plates from which Joseph Smith is supposed to have transcribed his fraudulent work. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to rub them in the face of those by whom they are insulted? Those who would insinuate that the ‘Book of Mormon,’ is nothing more than an unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish and is likened to a cow pat to which bits and pieces of God’s holy scripture have been added, which scriptures are likened to sweet currants in order to make it (The cow pat) more palatable to the gullible, and to titillate the spiritual taste buds of those who have been deceived by Joseph Smith. But alas! The gold plates are non-existent: I wonder, do you suppose, if this could be the reason why those who believe in the Jesus as recorded in the holy scriptures, do not accept the book of the Mormons as being valid?

Thanks for proving my point with Roli.

 

[S-word]

Thanks for proving my point with Roli.

That's quite alright Watchmen, anytime you need my assistence in the future, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[S-word]

Thanks for proving my point with Roli.

That's quite alright watchmen, any time, anytime at all that you might need my assistence in the future, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Scott C.]

What a pity that the Mormons do not have the non-existent gold plates from which Joseph Smith is supposed to have transcribed his fraudulent work. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to rub them in the face of those by whom they are insulted? Those who would insinuate that the ‘Book of Mormon,’ is nothing more than an unadulterated conglomerate of written rubbish and is likened to a cow pat to which bits and pieces of God’s holy scripture have been added, which scriptures are likened to sweet currants in order to make it (The cow pat) more palatable to the gullible, and to titillate the spiritual taste buds of those who have been deceived by Joseph Smith. But alas! The gold plates are non-existent: I wonder, do you suppose, if this could be the reason why those who believe in the Jesus as recorded in the holy scriptures, do not accept the book of the Mormons as being valid?

I love the Book of Mormon. I've studied it for many years and have read it many times. The evidence of it's truth lies in the realm of faith and spirituality. Heavenly Father does not choose to prove his works in man's ways (e.g, show the world the plates), but rather in his own way. That way is humility, prayer, faith, and the witness of the Holy Ghost. I have the witness of the Spirit concerning this marvelous book and it's miraculous coming to light. I love to study the Bible as well and know the Book of Mormon and Bible go hand in hand to confirm the message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[roli]

I love the Book of Mormon. I've studied it for many years and have read it many times. The evidence of it's truth lies in the realm of faith and spirituality. Heavenly Father does not choose to prove his works in man's ways (e.g, show the world the plates), but rather in his own way. That way is humility, prayer, faith, and the witness of the Holy Ghost. I have the witness of the Spirit concerning this marvelous book and it's miraculous coming to light. I love to study the Bible as well and know the Book of Mormon and Bible go hand in hand to confirm the message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ok .....the book has alot of references to Holy Scripture in it and on that basis it's truths you mention are a reality, and God can ,if he chooses, reveal himself to anyone.But....the fact that LDS rely very heavily on the other doctrinal books of their elders and LDS prophets, that in many cases contradict the very scriptures and set the tone for the great doctrinal differences past down through the years between christian theology and Mormonism.

This is where Christians have difficulty with the teachings of the LDS, so best not split hairs as to the validity of the Book of Mormon, but bring into light the other books that apparently support the Book of Mormon and the LDS doctrines. For I believe that it is within them that we will find discrepancies that we will all agree on are doctrinally different then that found in scripture.

So if you, or any other LDS member choose to discuss these doctrinal differences that have split both groups for years, lets open up another thread.

 

[Scott C.]

Ok .....the book has alot of references to Holy Scripture in it and on that basis it's truths you mention are a reality, and God can ,if he chooses, reveal himself to anyone.But....the fact that LDS rely very heavily on the other doctrinal books of their elders and LDS prophets, that in many cases contradict the very scriptures and set the tone for the great doctrinal differences past down through the years between christian theology and Mormonism.

This is where Christians have difficulty with the teachings of the LDS, so best not split hairs as to the validity of the Book of Mormon, but bring into light the other books that apparently support the Book of Mormon and the LDS doctrines. For I believe that it is within them that we will find discrepancies that we will all agree on are doctrinally different then that found in scripture.

So if you, or any other LDS member choose to discuss these doctrinal differences that have split both groups for years, lets open up another thread.

I agree there are doctrines that differ between the LDS and many other Christians. Our scripture canon includes the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price as well as the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I also believe that areas where the LDS differ from other Christians are probably more likely to be found in the D&C and P. of G.P. than in the Book of Mormon.

The D&C for example, declares God to be a physical being. The D&C reveals that there are degrees of heaven. It also reveals the importance of baptisms for the dead and other temple ordinances. It also reveals the need for priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ and defines priesthood offices, functions, and church organization in great detail.

The P. of G.P. reveals our existence with God before the world was created. It also reveals that Heavenly Father chose Jehovah (Jesus) to be the Savior of the world before the world was created.

I think much of the doctrinal differences between LDS and other Christians lies in these areas I mention. I believe that all doctrines taught in all of the LDS scripture canon are consistent with the Bible.

I'd be happy to discuss any doctrine taught in those 2 books either here or in another thread.

 

[Watchmen]

Ok .....the book has alot of references to Holy Scripture in it and on that basis it's truths you mention are a reality, and God can ,if he chooses, reveal himself to anyone.But....the fact that LDS rely very heavily on the other doctrinal books of their elders and LDS prophets, that in many cases contradict the very scriptures and set the tone for the great doctrinal differences past down through the years between christian theology and Mormonism.

This is where Christians have difficulty with the teachings of the LDS, so best not split hairs as to the validity of the Book of Mormon, but bring into light the other books that apparently support the Book of Mormon and the LDS doctrines. For I believe that it is within them that we will find discrepancies that we will all agree on are doctrinally different then that found in scripture.

So if you, or any other LDS member choose to discuss these doctrinal differences that have split both groups for years, lets open up another thread.

I've never seen a contradiction that can't be explained. After all, the Bible itself has contradictions of its own. Also, you're claiming doctrinal differences. Perhaps you should start the thread and tell us what they are.

 

[roli]

I agree there are doctrines that differ between the LDS and many other Christians. Our scripture canon includes the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price as well as the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I also believe that areas where the LDS differ from other Christians are probably more likely to be found in the D&C and P. of G.P. than in the Book of Mormon.

The D&C for example, declares God to be a physical being. The D&C reveals that there are degrees of heaven. It also reveals the importance of baptisms for the dead and other temple ordinances. It also reveals the need for priesthood authority in the Church of Jesus Christ and defines priesthood offices, functions, and church organization in great detail.

The P. of G.P. reveals our existence with God before the world was created. It also reveals that Heavenly Father chose Jehovah (Jesus) to be the Savior of the world before the world was created.

I think much of the doctrinal differences between LDS and other Christians lies in these areas I mention. I believe that all doctrines taught in all of the LDS scripture canon are consistent with the Bible.

I'd be happy to discuss any doctrine taught in those 2 books either here or in another thread.

The D&C for example, declares God to be a physical being.

Let's start with this one.
Could you show me the references in your books of God being in physical form ?
And then could you show me where it is taught in the bible.
This is a major doctrine that needs attention, if none other !!!!!

 

[Katzpur]

Let's start with this one.
Could you show me the references in your books of God being in physical form ?
And then could you show me where it is taught in the bible.
This is a major doctrine that needs attention, if none other !!!!!

Why can't you start a new thread, roli? This discussion is clearly going to extend beyond the Book of Mormon. Several people have suggested that you do that.

 

[roli]

I've never seen a contradiction that can't be explained. After all, the Bible itself has contradictions of its own. Also, you're claiming doctrinal differences. Perhaps you should start the thread and tell us what they are.

Please could you show me these contradictions in scripture ?

..by the way, if you've been a Mormon for any length of time you should know what these doctrinal differences are and that they have been in existence for some time.If you have'nt done your homework on your own religion as it compares and opposes the bible and other religions, then maybe it's time that you start. I don't want to take from the interesting find you'll discover when you compare your doctrines with that of the bible. But I think we both know that you know very well what these are, but perhaps unwilling to confront them.

 

[Katzpur]

Please could you show me these contradictions in scripture ?

..by the way, if you've been a Mormon for any length of time you should know what these doctrinal differences are and that they have been in existence for some time.If you have'nt done your homework on your own religion as it compares and opposes the bible and other religions, then maybe it's time that you start. I don't want to take from the interesting find you'll discover when you compare your doctrines with that of the bible. But I think we both know that you know very well what these are, but perhaps unwilling to confront them.

You're the one making the accusations, roli. So make them. IN A DIFFERENT THREAD, PLEASE!!!!!

 

[Watchmen]

Please could you show me these contradictions in scripture ?

..by the way, if you've been a Mormon for any length of time you should know what these doctrinal differences are and that they have been in existence for some time.If you have'nt done your homework on your own religion as it compares and opposes the bible and other religions, then maybe it's time that you start. I don't want to take from the interesting find you'll discover when you compare your doctrines with that of the bible. But I think we both know that you know very well what these are, but perhaps unwilling to confront them.

I'm very well aware of the so-called doctrinal differences, but your the one making the claims. The duty is on you to produce them so we can shoot them down like clay pigeons (IN A DIFFERENT THREAD!!!).

As for contradictions in the Bible. God says thou shalt not kill and not long after he tells the Hebrews to destroy their enemies.

 

[S-word]

I love the Book of Mormon. I've studied it for many years and have read it many times. The evidence of it's truth lies in the realm of faith and spirituality. Heavenly Father does not choose to prove his works in man's ways (e.g, show the world the plates), but rather in his own way. That way is humility, prayer, faith, and the witness of the Holy Ghost. I have the witness of the Spirit concerning this marvelous book and it's miraculous coming to light. I love to study the Bible as well and know the Book of Mormon and Bible go hand in hand to confirm the message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So you say that you are filled with the Holy Spirit who has revealed to you the miraculous origin and the truth of the book of all you Mormons, which are, what percentage of the population? And you expect me to fall down and confess, that 'IF ' you have the Holy spirit, what you say must be the truth?

Quote... Scott----the witness of the Holy Ghost. I have the witness of the Spirit concerning this marvelous book and it's miraculous coming to light.

Acts 7, Stephen was a Greek speaking Jew of who it is said, was filled with the Holy Spirit, and Stephen, who had been dragged before the Jewish authorities by Saul, in defence of his faith before being stoned to death, stated in acts 7: 4, that it was after Terah had died that his son Abraham obeyed God’s command and went to live in the land of Canaan. But the record in Genesis makes it plain that after Terah had turned 70 not 75 or 80, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor and Haran, and that Abraham was 75 when he travelled to Canaan when his father was about 145 and that his father died 60 years later at the age of 205.

Stephen also states in Acts 7: 15-17, that Abraham bought the grave in the land of Shechem from Hamor, whereas Genesis shows that Abraham bought the grave site from Ephron the Hittite at Machpeleh east of Mamre, which is way to the south of Shechem. It is also said by Stephen in the same verses, that Jacob and his sons were buried at Shechem, when in fact, it was only the remains of Joseph which was buried there, see Joshua 24: 32.

Jacob and his other sons were buried at Mamre and concerning the burial of Jacob, it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.” How many people have we heard or who have written the erroneous statement of Stephen, that it was after his father had died that Abraham Journeyed into the land of Canaan?

If Stephen of who it is said was filled with the Holy Spirit cannot be believed, what makes you think for one moment, that you have the truth and that you should be believed?

 

[Scott C.]

If Stephen of who it is said was filled with the Holy Spirit cannot be believed, what makes you think for one moment, that you should be believed?

What you or I believe or don't believe is a very personal matter. I would not expect somebody to be converted to my faith simply on the basis of what I have experienced. Each individual needs to find out for himself.

I'm simply stating that I have had sufficient personal experience to make me a believer. That fact may influence somebody else to check it out for themselves, but that fact would not be sufficient for their conversion.