Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[ἀλήθεια]

But staying with the point, wasn't the question of this thread about just the BoM? Not about all of Mormon doctrine and our other books of scripture? When you look at just the one book--as a Christian, what's wrong with it?

For starters, some of what is wrong with the Book of Mormon can be found in its criticism of the Bible and those who diligently copied scriptures in the first century:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi, Chapter 13

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

 

[Watchmen]

Mormon Doctrine is the unfortunate title of a book written by a man who was a leader in the Church. However, it was not, nor was it ever intended to be, scripture for the Church.

 

[Watchmen]

For starters, some of what is wrong with the Book of Mormon can be found in its criticism of the Bible and those who diligently copied scriptures in the first century:

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi, Chapter 13

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

Yes or No? Did man determine what books would go into the Bible or not?

 

[edward]

That's entirely beside the point. It doesn't matter how you were raised. You are a Satanist now and this thread is on the Same-Faith Debates Forum. Only Christians are permitted to debate on this particular topic. Not ex-Christians. Not ex-Mormons.

I'm confused. Can, in your impression, an ex-mormon be a Christian? Or to put it another way ... are Mormons and Baptists (or Methodists, etc.) allowed to post to the "Same-Faith" debate? Like I said, this statement has confused me.

Thanx,

Edward

 

[edward]

You know, this is probably the most intelligent response I've seen yet to the OP. 99% of the others don't even address the OP. On the other hand, as I've said a few times already, the question posed in the OP is pretty stupid. Besides, 13 million Christians do accept it as valid.

Thank you! I try to give intelligent answers. If I can't, I don't usually respond.

Edward

 

[edward]

Do you accept Biblical prophets at their word or through the Holy Spirit?

I do not accept Mr. Smith as a prophet of God. Is that your litmus test for the validity of the Book of Mormon?

Edward

 

[edward]

Mormon Doctrine is the unfortunate title of a book written by a man who was a leader in the Church. However, it was not, nor was it ever intended to be, scripture for the Church.

What does this have to do with anything to do with the Book of Mormon????

 

[Katzpur]

I'm confused. Can, in your impression, an ex-mormon be a Christian? Or to put it another way ... are Mormons and Baptists (or Methodists, etc.) allowed to post to the "Same-Faith" debate? Like I said, this statement has confused me.

Thanx,

Edward

Wow, you've gone back a long way on this thread. I couldn't even remember that post when I first read it. It was, in fact, misleading. An ex-Mormon can definitely be a Christian. The Same Faith Debates Forum can be really confusing, because "same faith" can be understood in so many different contexts. Technically, the person who starts a thread in this forum is supposed to indicate how inclusive he wants the debate to be, and it's nice if he does so in the title. For example: "Abrahamic Faiths Only - Was the earth created in seven days?" or "Christians Only - Was Mary a virgin throughout her life?" or "LDS Only - Is watching TV on Sundays keeping the Sabbath Day holy?" My comment was to someone who is not a Christian (LDS or otherwise) and who should not have been posting on a Same Faith Debates Forum thread that was clearly intended for Christian discussion. If the poster had been a former Mormon who had converted to Lutheranism, I would not have made the comment.

 

[Watchmen]

I do not accept Mr. Smith as a prophet of God. Is that your litmus test for the validity of the Book of Mormon?

Edward

That's not what I asked. Please allow me to repeat.

Do you take Biblical prophets at their word or by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Watchmen]

What does this have to do with anything to do with the Book of Mormon????

It was a response to what's-her-name's post in which she brought up the book called Mormon Doctrine.

 

[edward]

That's not what I asked. Please allow me to repeat.

Do you take Biblical prophets at their word or by the Holy Spirit?

The question you asked is off topic. The topic is the Why don't Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

It doesn't matter whether or not I accept Biblical prophets at their word or not. What matters to me is that I DO NOT accept Mr. Smith as a prophet of God, therefore reject the Book of Mormon. What is so hard about accepting my answer?

Edward

 

[Katzpur]

Okay, RemnanteK, I hope you're listening because I promised you an answer today.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the point of being a 'Christian' was to be like Christ?

Nope, you're not wrong. But since Christ is like His Father, being like Him would also made us like our Father in Heaven.

So when he is standing before 'God' and says he knows me and I am one of his. He is also going to say, but he wasn't exactly good enough.
I'd like to see that in the Bible please. I'm asking because I want to know, not to argue.

Okay, you lost me. I'm not even going to try to answer you because I really don't understand what you're asking. If you'll explain what you mean, I'll have a go at it.

Because all people have sinned, they have fallen short of God's glory. Romans 3:23
My only salvation is Jesus, so if he is my substitute before 'God' what can be better?

I think this is a continuation of your last question, but I'm still not following you.

Oh, I know 'God' isn't afraid of other gods, I just don't like being compared to 'God', nor would I ever want to presume to want to be one.
I'm going to be happy enough just to sit at his feet and thank him, I'd be more than happy to spend eternity that way.

And therein lies a major difference between LDS Christianity and traditional Christianity. You see, we don't just believe that God is our creator. We also believe that we are literally His spirit offspring, His sons and daughters. We believe that He is the Father of our spirits. Consequently, we view our relationship with Him as being very similar to our relationship with our early fathers. We don't see humans as being an entirely different species from God, but (as one of our prophets once said) "gods in embryo." To us, the fact that we were created in His image, as His own spirit offspring, means that we do have the inborn potential to someday -- and I'm talking a long, long, long time in the future, not immediately after we die -- become as He is. Furthermore, we believe that this is what He wants for us. If it weren't, we definitely wouldn't want it for ourselves. Imagine a conversation between a father and his adoring four-year-old son. The son says, "Daddy, when I grow up, I want to be just like you!" Do you think the father's thoughts upon hearing that statement would be, "What! How presumptuous! Who do you think you are to even dream that you could be like me? That, I can assure you, young man, will never, ever happen!" I can't imagine the father's response being anything like that. I can't imagine that he would feel anything but absolute joy and pride in his son, and that he would want his son to be able to do exactly what his goal was. Of course, he would continue to expect that his son would never get to the point where he did not love and respect him or look up to him as his father, but he would definitely not find his son's wish to be like him offensive or unreasonable. That's how we see our relationship with our Father in Heaven.

In the end, when we are there, I'll let 'God' give out his blessings, I'm just working on getting there for now.

As am I.

 

[Katzpur]

The question you asked is off topic. The topic is the Why don't Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

LOL! Well, 99% of the posts in this thread are off topic. I think what Watchmen was getting at was that if a person does accept that God once spoke to His people through living prophets, what reason is there to believe He would not continue to do so today?

 

[Watchmen]

The question you asked is off topic. The topic is the Why don't Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

It doesn't matter whether or not I accept Biblical prophets at their word or not. What matters to me is that I DO NOT accept Mr. Smith as a prophet of God, therefore reject the Book of Mormon. What is so hard about accepting my answer?

Edward

I understand your answer. I'm just wondering if you are being consistent or not. No one, LDS or otherwise, takes Joseph Smith by his word. The truth is revealed by the Holy Spirit. For example, that's how Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ.

 

[edward]

LOL! Well, 99% of the posts in this thread are off topic. I think what Watchmen was getting at was that if a person does accept that God once spoke to His people through living prophets, what reason is there to believe He would not continue to do so today?

I agree about the 99%, but that doesn't mean that I can't be part of the 1%. The crux of the issue is that I answered the question presented in the OP. That should do it. Right? :yes:

If you want to discuss who are prophets and who are not prophets then we should move on to another thread. Agreed? :yes:

Have a nice week-end .

Edward

 

[ἀλήθεια]

LOL! Well, 99% of the posts in this thread are off topic. I think what Watchmen was getting at was that if a person does accept that God once spoke to His people through living prophets, what reason is there to believe He would not continue to do so today?

I wonder, having read the entire Book of Mormon, what it teaches us about salvation that hasn't already been revealed in the Old and New Testaments. And occasionally the Bible and Book of Mormon are at odds with each other. But, worse than that, the Mormon teachings found in later LDS scripture, are not compatible with the Bible. Why is the Book of Mormon necessary?

 

[edward]

I understand your answer.

I asked if you accepted my answer, not did you understand it.

I'm just wondering if you are being consistent or not.

Doesn't matter. That was my answer and like they say, "it is what it is." I did not respond to have my answer disected, judged and/or criticized, nor did I expect that.

No one, LDS or otherwise, takes Joseph Smith by his word. The truth is revealed by the Holy Spirit. For example, that's how Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ.

Now what would you say if I told you that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Book of Mormon was not valid?

Have a nice week-end.

Edward

 

[Katzpur]

I agree about the 99%, but that doesn't mean that I can't be part of the 1%. The crux of the issue is that I answered the question presented in the OP. That should do it. Right? :yes:

Picky, picky, picky!

If you want to discuss who are prophets and who are not prophets then we should move on to another thread. Agreed? :yes:

I don't have a problem with that. You have a good weekend, too.

 

[edward]

Picky, picky, picky!

`

​

I don't have a problem with that. You have a good weekend, too.

Thanx

 

[Watchmen]

I asked if you accepted my answer, not did you understand it.



Doesn't matter. That was my answer and like they say, "it is what it is." I did not respond to have my answer disected, judged and/or criticized, nor did I expect that.



Now what would you say if I told you that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Book of Mormon was not valid?

Have a nice week-end.

Edward

It's not a trick question. I don't know why you're being evasive. Yes - you answered the OP. I understood your answer. I accept your answer. I'm just trying to have a dialogue. If you answer the OP and then refuse a dialogue that's...well, I think it's boring.

Have a nice weekend.

I hope when you come back you're ready to answer questions rather than playing cat and mouse.