Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[LittleNipper]

Okay, LittleNipper, I can't resist the temptation to respond to these comments, even though I previously said it would be a waste of my time.

Unrelated? I don't follow your reasoning. Could you explain, please?

And that is precisely what the Book of Mormon is doing. It is spreading the good news of Jesus Christ as our Savior and Redeemer.

Perhaps that's because the Bible (at least as a collection of sacred writings and not as a "book" per se) has existed since the first Christians existed. Its authors were known and studied by the people of that time. The Book of Mormon was lost to the world for many centuries. It stands to reason that it would contain such an invitation. I'm really curious as to why this is such a source of concern to you. God is simply saying, "After you've read this, pray about it and ask me if it's true. I will reveal my answer to you by the power of the Holy Ghost." Why on earth does this raise a red flag for you? Don't you believe that God would answer your prayers?

And there are none in the Book of Mormon like that either. As a matter of fact, in the Book of Mormon, we're told that we must ask with faith in Christ. You can't have faith in Christ if you don't believe Him to be God's Son, and you can't believe Him to be God's Son if you don't believe in God. The Bible does tell us that if we lack wisdom, we should ask God for it and He will respond by giving us the wisdom we ask for. That's exactly what the Book of Mormon is doing.

Holy Cow! Neither do we!

Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide some examples of this?

Wow! Well, in your two readings of the book, you obviously weren't paying much attention to the words. On the other hand, you did manage to find some things that aren't even there -- such as a reference to the Celestial Kingdom. Very impressive!

Celestial kingdom is used by Mormons ---- is it not? I never said it was found in the bom. I have Mormon relatives.

 

[LittleNipper]

So how did you receive the Holy Spirit? Acts 8:17-20 says it must be received by the laying on of hands and that this must be done by someone holding the proper authority.

Act 8:17-20 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost is not something that "just happens." It is a sacred ordinance established by Jesus Christ himself.

This is where mormonism is distorting the scripture. It doesn't say that the HOLY SPIRIT only comes throught the laying of hands. It says that in this case the SPIRIT was given this way in this instance. It was likely to expose SIMON's mistaken idea that spirituality was something someone could buy. That appears to be the main thrust of the passage in question...

 

[Katzpur]

Celestial kingdom is used by Mormons ---- is it not? I never said it was found in the bom.

Were you not referring to the Book of Mormon when you said, "I do not see any of the freedom in Christ, but contrived works and fingers that point to HUMAN REWARDS and to which side of GOD one will sit in the "celestial" kingdom..."?

I have Mormon relatives.

I'm very happy for you.

 

[Katzpur]

This is where mormonism is distorting the scripture. It doesn't say that the HOLY SPIRIT only comes throught the laying of hands. It says that in this case the SPIRIT was given this way in this instance. It was likely to expose SIMON's mistaken idea that spirituality was something someone could buy. That appears to be the main thrust of the passage in question...

LittleNipper, once again you do not understand LDS doctrine as well as you believe you do. Anyone can feel the witness of the Spirit. If a person reads the Book of Mormon and prays to God, asking for confirmation that what he has read is true, it is through the Holy Ghost that God will answer his prayers. Obviously that individual would not have had the Holy Ghost bestowed upon him through the laying on of hands. The "Gift of the Holy Ghost" is something different and it is received only after baptism and by the laying on of hands -- exactly as we are told in the scriptures.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

LittleNipper, once again you do not understand LDS doctrine as well as you believe you do. Anyone can feel the witness of the Spirit. If a person reads the Book of Mormon and prays to God, asking for confirmation that what he has read is true, it is through the Holy Ghost that God will answer his prayers. Obviously that individual would not have had the Holy Ghost bestowed upon him through the laying on of hands. The "Gift of the Holy Ghost" is something different and it is received only after baptism and by the laying on of hands -- exactly as we are told in the scriptures.

So what happens to those who read the Book of Mormon and prays to God asking for confirmation what he reads to be true, but never gets that confirmation? Maybe those kinds of people are not elect Mormons, but rather elect Christians? Please consider the OP since the author makes a clear distinction between Mormons and Christians.

 

[Katzpur]

So what happens to those who read the Book of Mormon ans prays to God asking for confirmation what he reads to be true, but never gets that confirmation.

They don't convert.

Maybe those kind of people are not elect Mormons, but rather elect Christians?

That's anybody's guess, Fish. But keep in mind that nobody's "elect" based on belief alone.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

They don't convert.
That's anybody's guess, Fish. But keep in mind that nobody's "elect" based on belief alone.

Hi Catz,

I'm not a fish but rather I'm a dog. Are you saying that elect Mormons are elect by belief and personal good works? And, elect Christians are elect by grace through faith alone on the basis of the work of Christ alone?

 

[Katzpur]

All you mormons out there please check out the Southpark episode on Mormons, it shows an accurate description of the life of Joseph Smith and is actually respectful to the religion too.

Whatever you say. How do you know it's accurate, though? Are you a scholar in this field?

When seeing it in this way, you will notice how silly it is to believe all of what Smith said, i promise it is not offensive, and does not lie about the book of Mormon not even once.
But if you are not confident in what you believe, then i would say to stay clear, because some uncomfortable to truths will reveal themselves.

Actually, I think I've heard all of the "uncomfortable truths" and an even greater number of "uncomfortable lies" that our detractors have devised over the past 180 years. If Southpark presented anything new, I'd be very surprised.

On another note i would just like to ask, what is all that stuff about homosexuals basically being preached straight? homosexuality is not a choice, it is what you are born as.

I agree.

Homosexuality has been around since Ancient times, this is proved by there being a verse on it in almost every religious book ever made, does that not show that maybe homosexuality has always been around.

Yes, it does.

 

[Katzpur]

Nephi as put forth in the bom is not an ancestor of JESUS. He might as well never have existed ----- oddly enough...

Please quote chapter and verse.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Catz,

I'm not a fish but rather I'm a dog.

You're Fish-Hunter and we all know it.

Are you saying that elect Mormons are elect by belief and personal good works? And, elect Christians are elect by grace through faith alone on the basis of the work of Christ alone?

I'm not the one making a distinction. You are. Nobody -- neither LDS Christian or non-LDS Christian -- is to be among God's elect based on a dead faith. The only real faith is a living faith.

 

[Apex]

Katz, I think you got a stalker...

 

[Katzpur]

Katz, I think you got a stalker...

I know. I feel like a movie star being hounded by a rabid fan.

 

[Watchmen]

Judie Dench?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Katz, I think you got a stalker...

This is Christian unconditional love rather than stalking. Arf arft arf - translated "salvation is based on the person work of Christ alone as being completely sufficent for those who believe" (IM0).

 

[Katzpur]

Think about the early 400's c.e. when the Bible was canonized.

Well, to be perfectly honest, when I think about the process of the canon being established, I am amazed that it took so many years for the world's Christians to realize that God was done talking and that it was time to formalize the canon and declare the canon to be closed. To me, that alone is very problematic. God spoke to the ancient Apostles and inspired them to write the words we read in the Bible today, but He didn't tell any of them that He intended to discontinue revealing His word in the future. Then suddenly, silence. And the Christians wait and wait and wait. God says nothing more but they're a patient lot. Finally, they acknowledge that He is not communicating to the Church any more (even though the Spirit has continued to communicate with the pure in heart), and call a council to proclaim that all of the scripture that is ever to be written already has been written. In effect, they decided to silence God.

Do you think archaeology and anthropology came into the picture? The difference isn't the archaeological or anthropological evidence.

Okay, I evidently misunderstood you on this point. I apologize.

The difference is that the canon NT scriptures are part of and have continuity with the Tradition of the followers of the Hebrew God.

Could you elaborate? How do you see this as having worked?

 

[Katzpur]

This is Christian unconditional love rather than stalking.

The hell it is.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

The hell it is.

Do you really want to be angry cat?

For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother's righteous. Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. - 1 John

 

[Katzpur]

Do you really want to be angry cat?

Somebody told you I was angry? You're not worth the effort.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Well, to be perfectly honest, when I think about the process of the canon being established, I am amazed that it took so many years for the world's Christians to realize that God was done talking and that it was time to formalize the canon and declare the canon to be closed. To me, that alone is very problematic. God spoke to the ancient Apostles and inspired them to write the words we read in the Bible today, but He didn't tell any of them that He intended to discontinue revealing His word in the future. Then suddenly, silence. And the Christians wait and wait and wait. God says nothing more but they're a patient lot. Finally, they acknowledge that He is not communicating to the Church any more (even though the Spirit has continued to communicate with the pure in heart), and call a council to proclaim that all of the scripture that is ever to be written already has been written. In effect, they decided to silence God.

Christians don't silence God. Can you explain why there was no scripture between 435 B.C. when Malachi ceased writing and the time that the first of the New Testament writers began writing? Is there scripture and new revelation for all the years of man's existence on earth?

Finally, they acknowledge that He is not communicating to the Church any more (even though the Spirit has continued to communicate with the pure in heart),

The Holy Spirit still speaks to believers today and believers are the Church.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

[/b][/color]Somebody told you I was angry? You're not worth the effort.

All we can do is imperfectly interpret each other's postings. When I read your postings to me, I find hostility and anger toward me or my faith. If I interpreted your postings incorrectly, I do apologize. Please forgive me if I have discerned incorrectly.