Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Watchmen]

Sojourner, great job seeing through her deception. If only everyone was as bright as you! I truly mean that.

 

[Katzpur]

In the Spirit World, the gospel (LDS version which LDS claim is not their version, but the Lord’s) is presented by worthy LDS to those who were not righteous enough to make it to Paradise but were instead sent to Spirit Prison.

Since neither Paradise or the Spirit Prison is an actual place of confinement but a state of mind, the gospel will be preached to any and all individuals interested in hearing it.

The unrighteous LDS will not need to hear it because they already heard it in this life.

Everyone, LDS or not, is unrighteous to some degree. Since it would be impossible to know whether or not an "unrighteous" individual had ever truly received the witness of the Holy Ghost as to the truthfulness of the gospel, a "refresher course" might be in order.

Spirit Prison is a temporary hell which gives people the opportunity to either suffer and repent or suffer and not repent.

It's a temporary hell from which a person will be released upon accepting the gospel and repenting of his sins.

Those people who accept the LDS gospel will need proxy temple work done on their behalf on earth because the ordinances cannot be done in Spirit Prison.

That is correct.

James E. Talmage wrote:
In the merciful providence of the Almighty, provision has been made for vicarious service by the living for the dead, in the ordinances essential to salvation; so that all who in the spirit-world accept the word of God as preached to them, develop true faith in Jesus Christ as the one and only Savior, and contritely repent of their transgressions, shall be brought under the saving effect of baptism by water for the remission of sins, and be recipients of the baptism of the Spirit or the bestowal of the Holy Ghost.
James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 675

I would agree with that.

The unrighteous LDS are pretty much up a creek:
"The assumption that the gracious assurance given by Christ to the penitent sinner on the cross was a remission of the man’s sins, and a passport into heaven, is wholly contrary to both the letter and spirit of scripture, reason, and justice. Confidence in the efficacy of death-bed professions and confessions on the basis of this incident is of the most insecure foundation. The crucified malefactor manifested both faith and repentance; his promised blessing was that he should that day hear the gospel preached in paradise; in the acceptance or rejection of the word of life he would be an agent unto himself. The requirement of obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel as an essential to salvation was not waived, suspended, or superseded in his case."
James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, Chapter 36, p. 677

I fail to see how Talmage is saying that "the unrighteous LDS are pretty much up a creek."

Does the following apply to only LDS or to all men?

It applies to everyone. However, only God knows our hearts. He alone can say whether disobedience was a result of stubbornness of a true lack of understanding. It would be foolish for anyone to procrastinate repenting of his sins, however the Lord is merciful and He alone will judge us. There are also extenuating circumstances, particularily with regards to those "born in the covenant."

 

[edward]

Well, Katzpur, it looks like you've got you own little rooting section. : hamster : Too bad we can't address the merits of the posts without picking side and geting nasty. I guess some things will never change.

Since neither Paradise or the Spirit Prison is an actual place of confinement but a state of mind, the gospel will be preached to any and all individuals interested in hearing it.

I am curious where you obtained this information. Are you saying that Jesus was not either in paradise nor preached to the spirits in prison? Is it all just a figment of our imagination? What is your reference for the above?

Edward

 

[edward]

Sojourner, great job seeing through her deception. If only everyone was as bright as you! I truly mean that.

I see that you have nothing to add that is constructive, only interested in shooting the messenger.

Typical.

If you're interested in dialogue perhaps you can address where you think her posts were/are in error.

Edward

 

[Watchmen]

I see that you have nothing to add that is constructive, only interested in shooting the messenger.

Typical.

If you're interested in dialogue perhaps you can address where you think her posts were/are in error.

Edward

Katzpur just did and sojourner saw her post for exactly what it was. That you don't doesn't mean we're wrong. Now go back to patting your Christian friends on the back.

 

[Watchmen]

Well, Katzpur, it looks like you've got you own little rooting section.

Are you referring to my previous post? If so, check again. I was complimenting Sojourner, a critic of the LDS Church who uses tradition and intellect - not deception and guile.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

We're splitting hairs. We say we are all God's children because he is the Creator of us all. However, you're right - those who reject Him are not His children. I'll go into detail later.

We're waiting for the details. Are some of the brethren not His children?

Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ. (Moroni 7:19)

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Since neither Paradise or the Spirit Prison is an actual place of confinement but a state of mind

Could you please give me the scripture reference for that?

Here is what I read in your scripture:

Doctrine and Covenants 29
37 And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels;
38 And, behold, there is a place prepared for them from the beginning, which place is hell.

 

[edward]

Katzpur just did and sojourner saw her post for exactly what it was. That you don't doesn't mean we're wrong.

Doesn't mean you're right, either, but ἀλήθεια didn't accuse you of being deceptive or anything else, for that matter. You know, a little civility could go a long, long way here.

Katzpur did and that was fine (her second post). Sojourner was sarcastic and even Katpur wasn't clear if he was serious or not so he didn't lend anything to the issue at hand and you just claimed that she was deceptive without any evidence or argument to support your claim. Like I said, "typical."

Now go back to patting your Christian friends on the back.

Too bad. You just don't get it, do you?

Please don't attempt to tell me what to do. It isn't within your realm of authority. For the record, I pat those on the back who make good, well thought out posts without the aid of character assassination, sarcasm and other sophomoric innuendos, Christian or not. It seems to me that this should be able to be accomplished, but then again, maybe not.

 

[edward]

Are you referring to my previous post? If so, check again. I was complimenting Sojourner, a critic of the LDS Church who uses tradition and intellect - not deception and guile.

Nope, I wasn't referring to to your post. I wonder if he uses character assassination and lies as his primary tools of criticism with those who disagree with him?

 

[edward]

...

The way you have presented it, it is contrary to LDS teachings. A great deal can happen in the Spirit World. In the end, it's not going to be a matter of LDS versus non-LDS. There are millions upon millions of non-LDS people living in the world today who are going to end up in the Celestial Kingdom and proportionately just as many LDS people who will not end up in the Celestial Kingdom. It doesn't work the way you're describing it.

I hate to butt in here, but I have to know what you mean by the part that I underlined above. Are you saying (and sure seems that way) that it doesn't matter whether or not one becomes LDS? That everyone faces the same odds of spending eternity with God, the Father? That these millions upon millions of people who passed through this world without joining the LDS church will end up in celestial glory with God? Is that is the case, why do the LDS put such an emphasis on missionary workd, etc?

Just asking for clarification, don'tcha know.

 

[Sola'lor]

In our non-LDS beliefs, the wicked aren't his children. His children will be with Him.

It depends. From one perspective every being created by Heavenly father is His child. From another perspective only those that obey His commandments are His children. Both are true.

At the final judgment, who makes the decision and assigns each person to a kingdom? If we all choose our own kingdom, the Judge isn't really making the decision; the Judge would simply be asking where we want to go and agreeing with us.

Latter-day Saints believe we are not assigned our eternal kingdom in an arbitrary manner. Our Father in Heaven desires all of his children to dwell with him in the celestial kingdom. However, we would not be happy dwelling there if we had not developed a spirit aligned with the principles associated with that kingdom. While the Lord issues our final judgment, we in effect choose our own eternal dwelling place by the law that we chose to obey in mortality. President Brigham Young taught:

"Some will obey the celestial law [in mortality] and receive of its glory [in eternity], some will abide the terrestrial and some the telestial, and [those who committed the unpardonable sin] will receive no glory."
W. John Walsh, "Heaven and the Degrees of Glory"

Again it depends on the perspective. We choose which kingdom based on the life we live. How is it possible we choose this? Because the life we live is based on the choices we make. If we choose to disobey God then He will put us in the place for people that make those choices. If we choose to obey His commandments thenHe will put us in a place for people who choose those things.

Do we choose which Kingdom we go to? or Does God choose? Yes.

My understanding of LDS teachings(correct me if I'm wrong) is that those who reject LDS teachings and don't partake of all the ordinances are shut out from Heavenly Father's presence for eternity.

Those who reject God's commandments and ordinances will not be permitted to live in Heavenly Father's presence.

That would mean that all who interpret the Bible as Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, or Evangelical Christians are judged as not being God's children or at least as being somewhat wicked.

If you say that everyone must accept the LDS church then I can see how you could come to that interpretation. However I don't believe that LDS teachings and practices are neccessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom. I believe that God's commandments and ordinances are necessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom.

If only those who are LDS can enter the Celectial Kingdom then I guess, Moses, Adam, Noah, the original 12 Apostles, and even Jesus Christ can't enter. They're not LDS.

If LDS believe that all but the Sons of Perdition are God's children, why are so many assigned to kingdoms outside the presence of Heavenly Father?

Because not all will accept God's commandments and ordinances. There is not black and white. No body is 100% pure wicked or 100% pure righteous. There is more than one Kingdom so that those who suited for those kingdoms can go there.

And if all began as Heavenly Father's children do they still need to be adopted into His real family?

Because as mortal beings we are naturally seperated from God. We must show that we want to return to Him and be part of His family.

 

[Sola'lor]

I hate to butt in here, but I have to know what you mean by the part that I underlined above. Are you saying (and sure seems that way) that it doesn't matter whether or not one becomes LDS? That everyone faces the same odds of spending eternity with God, the Father? That these millions upon millions of people who passed through this world without joining the LDS church will end up in celestial glory with God?

Becoming LDS is not necessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Obeying God's commandments and performing the proper ordinances is necessary.

Is that is the case, why do the LDS put such an emphasis on missionary workd, etc?

We believe that we our church has those ordinances and the authority to perform them. However those ordiances are not LDS ordinances we believe they are God's ordinances. John the Baptist performed baptisms, he was not LDS yet we believe his baptisms have that same authority.

 

[edward]

Becoming LDS is not necessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Obeying God's commandments and performing the proper ordinances is necessary.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I truly appreciate it.
Which commandments and ordinances are necessary? All of them? Would those include temple marriage, performing baptism for the dead and other uniquely LDS rules?
Why did Jesus Christ die on the cross for our sins if we can obey the commandments and obtain life eternal w/God the Father? If our works were/are sufficient, then those of Old Testament times could gain eternal life by the law and we would still be under the law and not under grace.

We believe that we our church has those ordinances and the authority to perform them. However those ordinances are not LDS ordinances we believe they are God's ordinances.

This is where I must disagree. If these were God's ordinances and you have a church that restored the first century church, there would be evidence that these marriages and proxy baptisms were performed in the temple at Jerusalem. There is no such evidence. If eternal marriage was so essential there would be evidence that Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, the twelve apostles, etc. all partook of this ceremony. Again, there is no evidence of this happening in the temple.

John the Baptist performed baptisms, he was not LDS yet we believe his baptisms have that same authority.

That is why I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Former-Day Saints.

In summary, this makes no sense. One doesn't have to be LDS to go to the celestial kingdom, but one must have these ordinances performed by the LDS because they are the only ones who have the authority. Can I receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands from a Mormon Elder who has authority without being or becoming LDS?

Thanks again for your response.

Edward

 

[ἀλήθεια]

My understanding of LDS teachings(correct me if I'm wrong) is that those who reject LDS teachings and don't partake of all the ordinances are shut out from Heavenly Father's presence for eternity.

Those who reject God's commandments and ordinances will not be permitted to live in Heavenly Father's presence.

Joseph Smith restored God's commandments according to Mormonism, no? So those who don't obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel will not be in Heavenly Father's presence, and the only church on earth that has the gospel is the LDS church, no?

"The gospel is our Heavenly Father's plan of happiness."
lds.org

"The plan of salvation is the fulness of the gospel. It includes the Creation, the Fall, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and all the laws, ordinances, and doctrines of the gospel."
lds.org

Restoration of the Gospel
When Jesus Christ was on the earth, He established His Church among His followers. After His Crucifixion and the deaths of His Apostles, the fulness of the gospel was taken from the earth because of widespread apostasy. Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ restored the fulness of the gospel. The true Church of Jesus Christ is on the earth again. Because of the Restoration, the teachings and ordinances necessary for salvation are available to all people.
lds.org (Bold mine)

If you say that everyone must accept the LDS church then I can see how you could come to that interpretation. However I don't believe that LDS teachings and practices are neccessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom. I believe that God's commandments and ordinances are necessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom.

Ah, but LDS teach that "The true Church of Jesus Christ is on the earth again. Because of the Restoration, the teachings and ordinances necessary for salvation are available to all people."

And I did not mention a church. I referred to LDS teachings and ordinances.

If only those who are LDS can enter the Celectial Kingdom then I guess, Moses, Adam, Noah, the original 12 Apostles, and even Jesus Christ can't enter. They're not LDS.

You're kidding, right?

Didn't the Lord present the gospel to Adam and isn't it the same gospel that LDS have? It's the apostate churches that don't have the fulness of the gospel according to Mormon teachings. Moses, Adam, Noah, the original 12 Apostles, and even Jesus Christ had the true gospel according to what I know about LDS teachings. Did they not?

Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6
50 But God hath made known unto our fathers that all men must repent.
51 And he called upon our father Adam by his own voice, saying: I am God; I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh.

52 And he also said unto him: If thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized, even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth, which is Jesus Christ, the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come unto the children of men, ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given you.

53 And our father Adam spake unto the Lord, and said: Why is it that men must repent and be baptized in water? And the Lord said unto Adam: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden.

54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world.

55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good.

Because not all will accept God's commandments and ordinances. There is not black and white. No body is 100% pure wicked or 100% pure righteous. There is more than one Kingdom so that those who suited for those kingdoms can go there.

So some people are only partly unclean according to LDS teaching and they will be assigned to a kingdom lower than the Celestial where Heavenly Father dwells.

Alma 11
37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

And if all began as Heavenly Father's children do they still need to be adopted into His real family?

Because as mortal beings we are naturally seperated from God. We must show that we want to return to Him and be part of His family.

Aren’t children under the age of eight still his children? Are all mortal beings his children or not his children?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

We believe that we our church has those ordinances and the authority to perform them. However those ordiances are not LDS ordinances we believe they are God's ordinances. John the Baptist performed baptisms, he was not LDS yet we believe his baptisms have that same authority.

And as I said:

In the Spirit World, the gospel (LDS version which LDS claim is not their version, but the Lord’s) is presented by worthy LDS to those who were not righteous enough to make it to Paradise but were instead sent to Spirit Prison.

 

[Watchmen]

LDS is just a label used right now. They didn't have it in the past and they won't have the title in the afterlife.

 

[Sola'lor]

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I truly appreciate it.
Which commandments and ordinances are necessary? All of them? Would those include temple marriage, performing baptisim for the dead and other uniquely LDS rules?

Whichever ones God says are required. Temple marriage and performing Baptisms for the dead are not required to go to the Celestial Kingdom.

Why did Jesus Christ die on he cross for our sins if we can obey the commandments and obtain life eternal w/God the Father? If our works were/are sufficient, then those of Old Testament times could gain eternal life and we would still be under the law and not under grace.

Our owrks are not sufficient. Without Christ we would be unable to return to God.

This is where I must disagree. If these were God's ordinances and you have a church that restored the 1st century church, there would be evidence that these marriages and proxy baptisms were performed in the temple at Jerusalem. There is no such evidence. If eternal marriage was so essential there would be evidence that Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, the twelve apostles, etc. all partook of this ceremony. Again, there is no evidence of this happening in the temple.

Hmm. I am unaware of any instances that say our current temple ordinances were performed in the temple back then. Again temple marriage and performing baptisms for the dead are not required to enter the Celestial Kingdom. I never claimed that all these ordinances were performed all the time. We are no longer commanded to sacrifice animals, yet at one time they were. It is all part of the same gospel is it not? Another note, temple ordinances can also be performed on mountains.

That is why I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Former-Day Saints.

In summary, this makes no sense. One doesn't have to be LDS to go to the celestial kingdom, but one must these ordinances performed by the LDS because they are the only ones who have the authority.

It makes lots of sense. Perhaps I didn't explain it properly. The ordinances are not the exclusive property of the LDS church. They are God's exclusive property. The LDS church is simply permitted the authority to perform them. I firmly believe that in the Spirit world it is not the LDS church that is being taught. It is the spririt world "version" of the Gospel.

Can I receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands from a Mormon Elder who has authority without being or becoming LDS?

You don't have to have any authority to recieve that Holy Ghost. The Gift of the Holy Ghost however is different. I am unaware of any circumstances, in modern church history, where the Gift of the Holy Ghost has been given to someone who has not been baptized into the church first. So I can't answer that question.

Thanks again for your response.

Edward

You're welcome.

Joseph Smith restored God's commandments according to Mormonism, no? So those who don't obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel will not be in Heavenly Father's presence,

God restored several commanments through Joseph Smith, but many had never been lost.

and the only church on earth that has the gospel is the LDS church, no?

We believe that the LDS church is the only church that contains the fullness of the Gospel and the proper authority.

"The gospel is our Heavenly Father's plan of happiness."
lds.org

"The plan of salvation is the fulness of the gospel. It includes the Creation, the Fall, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and all the laws, ordinances, and doctrines of the gospel."
lds.org

Restoration of the Gospel
When Jesus Christ was on the earth, He established His Church among His followers. After His Crucifixion and the deaths of His Apostles, the fulness of the gospel was taken from the earth because of widespread apostasy. Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ restored the fulness of the gospel. The true Church of Jesus Christ is on the earth again. Because of the Restoration, the teachings and ordinances necessary for salvation are available to all people.
lds.org (Bold mine)

Ah, but LDS teach that "The true Church of Jesus Christ is on the earth again. Because of the Restoration, the teachings and ordinances necessary for salvation are available to all people."

And I did not mention a church. I referred to LDS teachings and ordinances.

I do not believe those ordinances are the LDS church's. They are God's. I believe God has given the church the right to perform them. So a person doesn't have to accept LDS teachings and ordinances they have to accept God's. It just so happens that the only way to properly do that on the earth is through the LDS church.

You're kidding, right?

Kidding that adam, moses, etc., even Jesuus Christ were not LDS? No i'm not. Jesus Christ wasn't a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Neither was Moses. none of those people were. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints didn't even exist until the 19th century.

Didn't the Lord present the gospel to Adam and isn't it the same gospel that LDS have?

It is not the same church that the LDS have. He presented Adam with the version of the Gospel that was appropriate for him at that time.

It's the apostate churches that don't have the fulness of the gospel according to Mormon teachings. Moses, Adam, Noah, the original 12 Apostles, and even Jesus Christ had the true gospel according to what I know about LDS teachings. Did they not?

Again they did not have the LDS church. They had the Gospel in whatever form was given to them at that time. In Moses' time it was the Law of Moses. In Christ's time it was what He taught. In our time it is what the LDS church has.

Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6

50 But God hath made known unto our fathers that all men must repent.
51 And he called upon our father Adam by his own voice, saying: I am God; I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh.

52 And he also said unto him: If thou wilt turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, and believe, and repent of all thy transgressions, and be baptized, even in water, in the name of mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth, which is Jesus Christ, the only name which shall be given under heaven, whereby salvation shall come unto the children of men, ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, asking all things in his name, and whatsoever ye shall ask, it shall be given you.

53 And our father Adam spake unto the Lord, and said: Why is it that men must repent and be baptized in water? And the Lord said unto Adam: Behold I have forgiven thee thy transgression in the Garden of Eden.

54 Hence came the saying abroad among the people, that the Son of God hath atoned for original guilt, wherein the sins of the parents cannot be answered upon the heads of the children, for they are whole from the foundation of the world.

55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good.

So some people are only partly unclean according to LDS teaching and they will be assigned to a kingdom lower than the Celestial where Heavenly Father dwells.

That's not what I said. I never said anyone is partly unclean. No body is partly unclean. We are all unclean. What I said is that not everybody is the same. Should somone who believes in Christ and tries their best to live His commandments go to the same place as someone who Believes but refuses to obey His commandments? Should someone who believes in Christ but refuses to obey His commandments go to the same place as someone who rejects Christ all together?

Alma 11

37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

Aren’t children under the age of eight still his children? Are all mortal beings his children or not his children?

I used the term mortal in reference to the Natural man.

1 Cor. 2: 14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Mosiah 3:19
19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

 

[edward]

Becoming LDS is not necessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Obeying God's commandments and performing the proper ordinances is necessary.

But only members of your church are allowed to perform them and only for members or for people in the process of becoming members of your church.

We believe that we our church has those ordinances and the authority to perform them. However those ordiances are not LDS ordinances we believe they are God's ordinances.

However, only members of your church are allowed to perform these ordinances and all other attempts to baptize, for example, are invalid and unacceptable to God - according to the LDS. Correct?

John the Baptist performed baptisms, he was not LDS yet we believe his baptisms have that same authority.

Does the Eastern Orthodox Bishop have the same authority if he has an unbroken chain back to an Apostle?

Edward

 

[ἀλήθεια]

God restored several commanments through Joseph Smith, but many had never been lost.

Yes, we know that that is LDS teaching.

Nephi testified that the Bible once "contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record" and that "after [the words] go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away" (1 Nephi 13:24, 26)
Boyd K. Packer, "Who Is Jesus Christ?," Ensign, Mar 2008, 12–19

We believe that the LDS church is the only church that contains the fullness of the Gospel and the proper authority.

Exactly.

I do not believe those ordinances are the LDS church's. They are God's. I believe God has given the church the right to perform them. So a person doesn't have to accept LDS teachings and ordinances they have to accept God's. It just so happens that the only way to properly do that on the earth is through the LDS church.

Semantics. There are many ordinances on the earth that are unique to the LDS church and required, according to LDS, for eternal life in the presence of Heavenly Father.

Kidding that adam, moses, etc., even Jesuus Christ were not LDS?

Kidding that you assume I don't know that LDS teach that Adam and others had the gospel teachings according to LDS. They were not ignorant of the "Plan of Salvation."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints didn't even exist until the 19th century.

And who doesn't know that? And your church wasn't even known by that particular name until April 26, 1838 (eight years after the founding of the LDS church by another name).

It is not the same church that the LDS have. He presented Adam with the version of the Gospel that was appropriate for him at that time.

What is your scriptural reference for that?

Again they did not have the LDS church. They had the Gospel in whatever form was given to them at that time. In Moses' time it was the Law of Moses.

And you think the Law of Moses was the Gospel? Was that with or without baptism?

In Christ's time it was what He taught.

And what did Christ teach and how is it different that what was taught to Joseph Smith?

In our time it is what the LDS church has.

Another Gospel version? Really? Is it a different set of requirements for eternal life?