Why Dont Christians Accept the Book of Mormon as Valid?

[Watchmen]

Thank you very much for refreshing my memory! Since one of the requirements for eternal life is celestial marriage, I suppose those in the lowest heaven or degree are still separated from Heavenly Father, right? He's in the highest. Who knows who gets assigned to that middle heaven in the celestial kingdom? I thought the laws of each kingdom applied to the entire kingdom.

We're not moving on until you quit asserting this. The section I just posted demonstrates that there are those in the Celestial Kingdom (in Heavenly Father's presence) that do not have a celestial marriage.

 

[Katzpur]

The following sounds as if Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it. Are you saying that only faith is necessary?

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.
(Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:57)

I'll tell you what I'm saying. I'm saying that I simply have no more patience left. I'm done. Period.

 

[Watchmen]

The following sounds as if Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it. Are you saying that only faith is necessary?

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.
(Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:57)

We don't get to the father but through Christ. How does the scripture you posted sound like "Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it?"

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

We don't get to the father but through Christ. How does the scripture you posted sound like "Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it?"

I think we are talking about the sufficiency of Jesus Christ in the atonement. I think Mormon doctrine will teach that the atonement of Christ gave all mankind an opportunity to be saved. However, the atonement of Christ did not actual secure salvation for anyone because the work of Christ is insufficient to save anyone.

 

[bluZero]

This is why I dot not accept the book of mormon!:no:

(Rev 22:18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(Rev 22:19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

 

[Watchmen]

I think we are talking about the sufficiency of Jesus Christ in the atonement. I think Mormon doctrine will teach that the atonement of Christ gave all mankind an opportunity to be saved. However, the atonement of Christ did not actual secure salvation for anyone because the work of Christ is insufficient to save anyone.

You didn't answer the question. You just made up more ****.

 

[Katzpur]

This is why I dot not accept the book of mormon!:no:

(Rev 22:18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(Rev 22:19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Oh my gosh. Not again. And people wonder why we get impatient with this drivel.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

We don't get to the father but through Christ. How does the scripture you posted sound like "Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it?"

I was taking into account the LDS definition of repent and D&C 76:52 which says to be cleansed, you must keep the commandments. It sounds like LDS have to help Christ cleanse them.

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.
(Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:57)

That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (Doctrine and Covenants 76:52)

 

[ἀλήθεια]

This is why I dot not accept the book of mormon!:no:

(Rev 22:18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(Rev 22:19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

John was only talking about the book of Revelation it seems. After all, when he wrote it, there was no book called the Bible. There are several other reasons to not accept the Book of Mormon. You'll have to do some more studying.

 

[Watchmen]

This is why I dot not accept the book of mormon!:no:

(Rev 22:18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
(Rev 22:19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Thanks for sharing. I just have two things to say:

1. The Book of Mormon is NOT the Bible - it neither adds to nor takes away from the Bible.

2. Revelation was not the last book chronologically in the Bible. Thus, other books in the Bible itself would violate the verses in Revelation if taken the way you mean.

 

[Watchmen]

I was taking into account the LDS definition of repent and D&C 76:52 which says to be cleansed, you must keep the commandments. It sounds like LDS have to help Christ cleanse them.

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.
(Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:57)

That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; (Doctrine and Covenants 76:52)

You're just cherry-picking things and making **** up. No LDS believes Christ's atonement is insufficient or needs some helping out. We believe Christ died for us and we may be made pure because of his great sacrifice. He is our Savior. Just because we do things does not mean the sacrifice is insufficient. After all, every Christian must DO something, right? Every Christian must ACCEPT Christ.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

You're just cherry-picking things and making **** up.

Are the four asterisks a substitute for an unacceptable word from a Latter-day Saint's mouth?

No LDS believes Christ's atonement is insufficient or needs some helping out. We believe Christ died for us and we may be made pure because of his great sacrifice. He is our Savior. Just because we do things does not mean the sacrifice is insufficient. After all, every Christian must DO something, right? Every Christian must ACCEPT Christ.

Every saved person has been born again and no one can give himself the new birth. Those who think they can cause the new birth to happen are mistaken. What a person does is not going to give himself salvation. LDS teaching says:

"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
(Pearl of Great Price, Articles of Faith)

The Bible says:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2)

And Paul, speaking about the works he did, said:

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:10)

And you will note that he did not say this before his Damascus road experience.

 

[Katzpur]

You're just cherry-picking things and making **** up. No LDS believes Christ's atonement is insufficient or needs some helping out. We believe Christ died for us and we may be made pure because of his great sacrifice. He is our Savior. Just because we do things does not mean the sacrifice is insufficient. After all, every Christian must DO something, right? Every Christian must ACCEPT Christ.

Watchmen, have you ever read Daniel Peterson's and Stephen D. Ricks' book, "Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints"? The title of this book perfectly describes what has been going on in this conversation.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Watchmen, have you ever read Daniel Peterson's and Stephen D. Ricks' book, "Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints"? The title of this book perfectly describes what has been going on in this conversation.

This is not a word game debate (IMO). It is a battle for the truth of the gospel. We both cannot be right. Either the great apostate is true as taught by the Mormon Church, and Joseph Smith was used by God to restore the biblical gospel, or the LDS Church proclaims a false gospel. The third option is that we are both wrong. However, we both cannot be right on the central issue of the gospel which saves sinners. Aletheia (ἀλήθει&#945 proclaims the gospel according to the Holy Bible!

 

[Watchmen]

Are the four asterisks a substitute for an unacceptable word from a Latter-day Saint's mouth?

I didn't write the asteriks, the censors did.

Every saved person has been born again and no one can give himself the new birth. Those who think they can cause the new birth to happen are mistaken. What a person does is not going to give himself salvation. LDS teaching says:

"3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
(Pearl of Great Price, Articles of Faith)

The Bible says:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2)

And Paul, speaking about the works he did, said:

But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:10)

And you will note that he did not say this before his Damascus road experience.

It is not LDS teaching that man gives himself salvation.

 

[Watchmen]

Watchmen, have you ever read Daniel Peterson's and Stephen D. Ricks' book, "Offenders for a Word: How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints"? The title of this book perfectly describes what has been going on in this conversation.

I know they play word games and that they are deceitful and dishonest and have no legitimate interest in having a decent conversation and exchange of views. But I respond to their posts because I think of all the others out there who are reading them and taking them for LDS beliefs when they are not. Example: Her claim that the LDS Jesus is insufficient. That's such an absurd idea, but if I don't respond to her someone might think she's accurately representing LDS belief.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I know they play word games and that they are deceitful and dishonest and have no legitimate interest in having a decent conversation and exchange of views. But I respond to their posts because I think of all the others out there who are reading them and taking them for LDS beliefs when they are not. Example: Her claim that the LDS Jesus is insufficient. That's such an absurd idea, but if I don't respond to her someone might think she's accurately representing LDS belief.

I am in complete agreement with Aletheia (ἀλήθει&#945 that the view of the person and work of Jesus Christ according to Mormon theology makes Jesus to be insufficent. I believe that the Mormon Jesus is not the same Jesus revealed in the Holy Bible.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I know they play word games and that they are deceitful and dishonest and have no legitimate interest in having a decent conversation and exchange of views. But I respond to their posts because I think of all the others out there who are reading them and taking them for LDS beliefs when they are not. Example: Her claim that the LDS Jesus is insufficient. That's such an absurd idea, but if I don't respond to her someone might think she's accurately representing LDS belief.

I made no claim that the LDS Jesus is insufficient. I said that Moses 6:57 "sounds as if Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it." IOW, it sounds as if His atonement is insufficient. And I also took into account the other teachings of the LDS church about the necessity of obedience and the meaning of repentance.

The following sounds as if Christ's atonement doesn't quite do it. Are you saying that only faith is necessary?

Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.
(Pearl of Great Price, Moses 6:57)

 

[Katzpur]

I know they play word games and that they are deceitful and dishonest and have no legitimate interest in having a decent conversation and exchange of views. But I respond to their posts because I think of all the others out there who are reading them and taking them for LDS beliefs when they are not. Example: Her claim that the LDS Jesus is insufficient. That's such an absurd idea, but if I don't respond to her someone might think she's accurately representing LDS belief.

I know. I see what you mean, but you do know that it's going to go on forever, don't you? It's frustrating to see our beliefs misrepresented, but you know darned well that it's not going to matter how you respond. She will zero in on a word or phrase and try to use your answer against you. The Pharisees were constantly trying to use the same ploy against Jesus. If we were on another site where the majority of the posters didn't have as much respect for the members of the Church as they do here, I'd probably be willing to put more effort into refuting these silly claims. But here on RF, people get to know who they can trust for accurate information. Anyway, more power to you.

 

[Katzpur]

I am in complete agreement with Aletheia (ἀλήθει&#945 that the view of the person and work of Jesus Christ according to Mormon theology makes Jesus to be insufficent. I believe that the Mormon Jesus is not the same Jesus revealed in the Holy Bible.

Yes, the two of you were obviously cut out of the same mold. You are definitely two of a kind. The good thing is that nobody takes either of you very seriously. They can see right through you.