Of course they can… it is in our DNA that was breathed in our lives by God. Not sure what your point is. It is why we can respond back to Him with love.
It is "rooted in (our) natures properties and universal to natural comprehension."
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why exactly is Satan bad?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
Of course they can… it is in our DNA that was breathed in our lives by God. Not sure what your point is. It is why we can respond back to Him with love.
It is "rooted in (our) natures properties and universal to natural comprehension."
What's your evidence that DNA was breathed into us by God?
This is purely in light of my faith. No one has to believe it. We can validate that we all love, beyond that it is two people looking at the same evidence and coming to two different conclusions.
So no evidence, you were proselytising. Got it..
Kings are made. The power they hold is by fear and vioence.
Yet secular governments function well, and have justice systems. Humans evolved with excessive emotions despite out abilities to reason.
If God exists? Well anything you have to say is guessing. You can make up whatevere you want, but no rational mind can take it seriously. It's all irrelevant.
Assuming your exact idea of God exists, and which you already admitted you don;t know. So all this is irrelevant.
If you don't have any facts why mention a God at all?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Because you have been referring to "jail-time" for the individual which executes a murderer, rapistst, kidnapper if the crimes are certainly known. Law enforcement does not get jailed for executing murderer-rapist-kidnapppers. "Closure" is the natural reaction from the family of the victims, not indignation, for lack of a better word.
That makes sense if the one-being is finite and not benevolent. Please remember, the propaganda post was intending to take numbers of those who are killed in the bible and re-imagine them as if they are all unjust. God in this story has proven itself to be omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent.
I find it comforting to consider a singular authority. Otherwise the "divine-powers" would be in conflict or opposing each other. Pure monotheism is a cooperative construct.
Irrelevant. That's a very different story. Ignoring the details and differences permits critisizing anyone and anything regardless of what they are actually doing.
They are finite humans. So, they are irrelevant.
Comparing english ivy choking a maple tree to a human choking a child is like comparing God killing murderer-rapist-kidnappers to humans killing murderer-rapist-kidnappers in the extreme different between the two killers being compared.
The knowledge, foresight, and compassion between english ivy and human are very different.
The knowledge, foresight, and compassion between God and a human are very different.
The point is: it's necessary to compare apples to apples. Comparing a finite vigilante human moral agent to an absolutely infinite tri-omni moral agent is a false comparrison: apples/oranges.
The propagandist relies on emotional triggers and the audience's ignorance to distort the facts. That's what happens when numbers are gathered of the number "killed" without considering the details of who, what, when/where, how, and why.
Ignoring the differences between a vigilante human and God is the bible is relying on ignorance of the "who" in the 5 attributes of just evaluation above.
In order to evaluate any crime, one needs to consider the circumstances of the crime. The propganda graphic intentionally ignores all of that. @ChristineM was shown the errors in tthe graphic, but, posts it anyway. That's because facts are less important than distorting the bible's story.
DNA are molecular strands, not imposed by breathing.
Not even the Genie of Aladin can change the DNA of a life.
Sure, LOVE required personal responsibility. Which means NO FALSE witness.
About like procreation (doing the wild thing). And I am guessing, missionary position is not the atheist choice.
Why not? It's as good as most positions.
the name sake if could be just too offensive.
Because, in my belief and experience, he is an evil being that hates God and His creation - especially humans - and seeks to cause as much harm and ruin as possible. Demons love to tempt humans to do progressively horrible things to themselves and others, as the more evil acts you commit, the more the soul is degraded over time until the person becomes completely depraved. I do believe possession explains many of the most horrific crimes that scandalize us and science can't even explain (like psychopaths who have had quite normal and nice lives but commit unspeakable acts of sadism and cruelty against other people and animals or these people "snapping" and commiting more or less random acts of extreme violence).
Heyo
Veteran Member
Because the god character, at least one of them, El, is an authoritarian prick.
What is the first and worst sin? Murder, theft, rape? Nope.
It's disobedience.
And what is even worse than disobedience? Inciting disobedience.
One has to understand that authoritarian mindset to understand why the Satan is the bad boy in the story. We look for heinous crimes and deeply immoral behaviour, which is not reported in the Bible, at least nothing that hasn't been surpassed by one of the "good guys". That is because we have an enlightened world view. Thinking for ourselves is a virtue in our eyes, not so for the authors of the bible. What makes the Morningstar a hero for some of us, is the worst crime for a divine despot, the two words
"Non serviam."
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Off course it's not.
Off course it is. I can't reason based on knowledge that I do not have.
That remains to be seen, off course. If I take a look at the commandments this being supposedly gave in the OT, then clearly that is true.
For example, when he asked Isaac to sacrifice his son. Or when he commanded genocide / infanticide.
Those are things that I would absolutely refuse to do as everything I know about the world and my moral reasoning would inform me that those are immoral things to do.
My 'creator' never asked me to do anything since I don't even believe one exists.
But again, looking at the bible stories, that is exactly what he asked his supposed subjects to do.
This thread is about the biblical Satan and morality.
You flat out contradict yourself now.
Nope. Just giving you an analogy of how it would be immoral to ask someone to do something which from that person's perspective would be immoral, without properly explaining why it would actually be moral; without giving the knowledge required for that person to realize it is actually moral.
I'm sorry you seem to be incapable of such empathic thinking.
It's an exact analogy to the commandments that god gave his subjects in the OT when he asked them to sacrifice their son or go on infantacidal and genocidal killing sprees.
Did you read the OT?
Do you understand what an analogy is?
Sounds like you don't.
Are you trying to misunderstand on purpose?
I guess you indeed are trying to misunderstand on purpose.
It's amazing trying to discuss morality and moral reasoning with adherents of "divine command theory".
Almost indistinguishable from psychopathy.
was he from Leningrad, and has a surname starting with P?
other question: if Satan is such a liar, how do you know Christianity is not one of His deceits to get as many persons damned as possible? Honestly, if I had been so mean, that is exactly what I would have done.
You have to admit that the God of the OT looks vastly different from the God of the NT. Which looks sort of weird.
so, how do you know?
ciao
- viole
Last edited:
Altfish
Veteran Member
According to The Bible Satan has killed many, many less than God.
Satan killed about 10
God killed more than 2 million
He might be one of his minions.
Because Truth was manifested
Actually, no. They actually preached the NT message from the TaNaKh (I don’t like the designation of OT
) It is synthesized in the NTObviously that would be within my signature and will vary person to person. For my journey I said, “The Bible is either true of false. I will start with the position that it is true and then test the sucker! I’ll find out soon enough it is false.” that was 41 years ago and the more I read, study and test, the more it holds onto its veracity.
Adios y bendiciones
Ken
How do you know? That is exactly what Satan wants to do. That it really looks it is the truth.
By the way, my Jewish friend, agrees with me. And he shares the same segment of Scriptures with you. And that fact alone, sets very low upper bounds on the credibility of your sacred Books.
Well, I am sure you appreciate the fact that between going from annihilating the entire human species, and all those animals, and just send a single one, who stays dead only for a couple of days, there is quite a difference in attitude towards solving problems, don't you think?Actually, no. They actually preached the NT message from the TaNaKh (I don’t like the designation of OT
I don't think they are the same God.
How, when you have the master deceiver still on the loose?
Why is he still on the loose, by the way? What would you think of an omnipotent policeman who still allows criminals to go around with impunity?
Aufwiedersehen.
- viole
Because he never contradicted the TaNaKh and fulfilled it.
Interesting…. I have two Jewish people in our congregation that believe in Yeshua and the same scripture...
Where do you want to go from here?
I’m not sure how you went from a to b and thus z.
OK. I never argue with the truth that we all have the power to come to our own conclusions.
Through the covenant. God doesn’t lie.
That is a VERY good question and certainly the Bible doesn’t address that question so we are relegated to personal viewpoints while we don’t forget that the earth was given to man and man has the authority.
That being said, my personal viewpoint is the love dictates choice. We have to choose who we want to follow - the lies that govern by Satan through humanistic thoughts or the truth of God.
But that is my “viewpoint”… what is yours?
Gracias… Vaya con Dios.
Ken
Who? Satan?
To the simple fact that you cannot possibly know whether Yeshua is not the product of Satan to have you all damned. If I were Satan, that is exactly what I would have done. Brilliant, innit?
For sure the God of the NT looks vastly different from the God of the OT.
It is just in the narrative. We have a God in book 1 Who waterboards the entire planet when He has a hissy fit, and a God in book 2 who allegedly spins off a Son to be killed instead. Well, killed is a big word. A Son who took the Passover weekend off, instead.
Don't you think it is weird?
Ok, but it seems quite obvious.
When you say God, you must mean the NT. Because that is all you have . Some stories on a book, And that book could be part of Satan's scheme. He is the master deceiver, after all.
So, how do you know it is not?
Well, my point that this is just the product of human imagination. There is no God, but only the desperate attempts to explain why He does not do anything, when the answer to that is amazingly simple. You guys are a bit like the people who insisted that Ptolemaic cosmology (where the earth was at the center) is true, and defended it by creating mega complicated theories to explain it. While the rational thing to do was to remove the premise and see how simple things become.
Anyway, from your vantage point, I wonder how you can solve this. He will intervene eventually, as you probably believe, so the defense that He does not want to meddle does not hold water.
So, if I were you, I would interpret His lack of intervention today as a sign that whatever happens today is according to His plans and should not be disturbed. Ergo, no matter what happens today must be for the final greater good. And cannot therefore be called evil.
Don't you think so?
Ciao
- viole
No so Ken -- Jesus contraticted the Tanakh .. full stop .. what he fulfilled was the commands == managed to keep those .. and those are what Jesus preached.
As far as "The Truth" -- the Word Lord YHWH in the OT ---- Jesus did not abide by that Truth .. nor preach it .. nor fulfill it .. in many cases going directly against the Truth of YHWH. but, this should not be surprising to the real devotee .. not having been duped by the Trinity .. and other "Man made" Dogma
Jesus is a priest forever in the order of Melchi-Zedek .. who owes no allegience to the ramblings of Lord YHWH .. or that Two faced trickster God named Jealousy.
Ha Satan .. is not a name .. it is a Title given to one of the "Supreme One's" many sons .. the one who God sends down to earth to test humans .. the Adversary - is Ha Satan.. same God we meet in when Jesus .. after being adopted by God at his baptism - undergoes the traditional ritual and right of passage .. from Man to .. something slightly more .. half man-part God .. having a little bit of the All spark
Jesus -- -The Son of Man - and Adopted son of God - passes through the ritual unscathed .. becomes a famous healer ... but gets on the wrong side of the Teachers of the Law .. for his contradiction of the Truth of Lord YHWH .. and as is traditional .. we have the firstborn son of man Sacrificed .. to atone for sin of humanity .. similar to the Scape-goat sent out to the desert God Azazal to atone for the sin of the Israelites.
The Satan of Job .. is a God .. powerful one at that .. Cheif God over the Earth we are told .. able to bring fire down from the sky .. kill people by snappage of fingers .. yet never steps outside the boundaries of God's will .. nor is ever subversive to the Supreme one.
An interesting footnote .. is that like Satan .. Lord YHWH is also a Son of the Supreme one .. who was battleing the other Sons for who would be Chief God over the Earth. YHWH loses and the place where his name resides was destroyed .. 500 years later we are told that Ha Satan has the title.
Your idea could be a movie in the making
At first glance, yes. But with deeper study, I found mercy and grace throughout
Interesting how we can see the same thing and come to two different understandings.
Your viewpoint? yes.
Not to me
Actually in both
Because it fulfills that which was written in the TaNaKh from Genesis on.
Yes…. we all have our viewpoints and I support your right to have it.
I don’t come to that conclusion. To get help, you actually have to want help.
LOL Apparently I don’t.
I really didn’t see a question - more like just your belief system
Hasta la vista,
Ken
Last edited: