Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[Booko]

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made Gen. 2:1-3

Happy Sabbath

OK, so what do members of your denomination do if they live in France? On what day do they observe the Sabbath?

 

[MaddLlama]

Bizzarre. It's just like the petty legalism that Jesus railed against.

Granted, I haven't met a large amount so I don't know if it's something the church encouraged, but personal experience tells me they can be weird.

 

[MaddLlama]

OK, so what do members of your denomination do if they live in France? On what day do they observe the Sabbath?

Psst, what do the French do that makes their days all weird?

 

[Booko]

.... do you mean Roman Catholic custom?

No, I meant Roman, as in Empire.

I couldn't say for sure. Maybe some bright person decided to have the day change over when we'd all be sleeping so it wouldn't be confusing about when the "day" changed.

 

[Katzpur]

I didn't vote because neither of the choices you gave me describe my perspective. I would have to say that I personally consider all ten commandments binding. My church teaches that all ten commandments are binding. I do my best to obey all ten commandments. I don't believe that any Church has the right to arbitrarily change any of God's laws. That said, God certainly has the right to change any of His laws at any time and has done so in the past. When He does, it's generally because we have, over a period of time, become better able to move beyond one set of rules and on to another. As we grow spiritually, He expects more of us than He did previously, and communicates His will to us through His spokesmen, living prophets. Finally, I really ought to add that while His laws may change over time, truth does not. It is eternal and immutable. His laws are in effect only to help us reach a knowledge of the truth and are therefore adaptable to the people and circumstances -- not by men, but by God.

 

[Booko]

That chicken is totally adorable though

I love silkies. They look rather nasty when wet, though.

I know that, but really, how much information did they have in the 1930's about the calendar systems of ancient cultures?

More to the point, why would the UNO *care* about calendars from other cultures? They are concerned about ships being able to find their way along sea lanes and not get lost. sheesh

Especially since some of the discoveries were made after the fact. A statement from the UNO from 1932 is hardly evidence of anything, except that it's what they believed at the time. Anthropological and archaeological evidence has uncovered much more since then...

Please don't mention "evidence" Draka! We don't need no steenkin' evidence!

 

[Booko]

Psst, what do the French do that makes their days all weird?

I mentioned it ages ago in this thread.

The first day of the month in a French calendar is <<lundi>> (i.e. Monday)

So much for the theory that the Sabbath has to be the "last" day of the week in a calendar, and that would automatically make it on Saturday.

 

[astarath]

No, I meant Roman, as in Empire.

I couldn't say for sure. Maybe some bright person decided to have the day change over when we'd all be sleeping so it wouldn't be confusing about when the "day" changed.

It was actually Constantine that initiated the change of the Sabbath from the traditional Saturday to Sunday. Constantine was a devout follower of the sun cult Sol Invictus whose holy day was on "Sun-day". On his death bed when the Pauline Christian leaders baptised him on his death bed they claimed that he was not a follower of the Sun but rather the Son!!! As well they adopted the accepted changes to Sol invictus and merged them with the growing leg of Pauline Christianity. In doing so they make their religion understable to the gentiles and acceptable!!!!

 

[d.n.irvin]

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.John 4:23

Welcome astarath

 

[Scott1]

It was actually Constantine that initiated the change of the Sabbath from the traditional Saturday to Sunday.

Christians worshiped on Sunday 200 years before Constantine was born.... gotta do some research.... here's a hint: research Justin Martyr

 

[astarath]

Cite the source by which it shows they worshipped on any day but the Sabbath precedign the conversion of Constantine??

 

[Scott1]

Cite the source by which it shows they worshipped on any day but the Sabbath precedign the conversion of Constantine??

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.
When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.
Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.
When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.
He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.
When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.' When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation: because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the lace of the dead and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week He will appear at last with the angels of heaven." Teaching of the Apostles, 2 (A.D. 225).


"Hence it is not possible that the rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh of our God; on the contrary, it is our Saviour who, after the pattern of His own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of His death, and hence also of His resurrection." Origen, Commentary on John, 2:27 (A.D. 229). "On the seventh day He rested from all His works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews, which Christ Himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, says by His prophets that 'His soul hateth;' which Sabbath He in His body abolished." Victorinus, On the Creation of the World (A.D. 300).

They did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we." Eusebius, Church History, 1:4,8 (A.D. 312).

 

[astarath]

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master." Ignatius, To the Magnesians, 9:1 (A.D. 110).

This is a statement by Ignatius to show they follow Pauline Christianity and not the Judaic ancestry it does not state the day has changed!!!

St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:

On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.
When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.
Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.
When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.
He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.
When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: 'Amen.' When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the "eucharisted" bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation: because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the lace of the dead and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week He will appear at last with the angels of heaven." Teaching of the Apostles, 2 (A.D. 225).

This is not a day of rest "SABBATH" but rather a dictation to the apostles how to finish their week!!

"Hence it is not possible that the rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh of our God; on the contrary, it is our Saviour who, after the pattern of His own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of His death, and hence also of His resurrection." Origen, Commentary on John, 2:27 (A.D. 229). "On the seventh day He rested from all His works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord's day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews, which Christ Himself, the Lord of the Sabbath, says by His prophets that 'His soul hateth;' which Sabbath He in His body abolished." Victorinus, On the Creation of the World (A.D. 300).

This is babbling drivel, hate literature if you will holding very thin truths and presenting them as founded tradition of christianity. Poorly constructed arguments especially the comment that Christ hateth the sabbath with the soul. This is hypocritical because as lord of sabbath then christ's soul would hate itself!!!
They did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we." Eusebius, Church History, 1:4,8 (A.D. 312).

Elaborate for me if you will who "they" is

 

[Scott1]

Elaborate for me if you will who "they" is

No thanks...

 

[Draka]

What makes your information not biased?:sarcastic

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the scientific findings and conclusions in the textbooks are there because they have been tested over and over by many many different scientists the world over. That there is no underlying agenda behind dating rocks and fossils and the cosmos that is all about undermining some god that some people believe in. No matter how you might want to believe it is so or that it is all the work of some evil being or "devil". That's just boiling down to being a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

The truth is a by-product of investigation.

 

[rocka21]

Irvin, just wondering, why did you not tell me you were a Seventh-day Adventist when i asked? is there a reason? Is there something to hide? i ask what church you belong to and you respond " the church satan hates".

WOW

O, WELL

 

[astarath]

No thanks...

Much appreciated perhaps in the future if your going to present an argument you will see fit to elaborate and provide full facts..or save both our times and escape the conversastions

 

[Scott1]

Much appreciated perhaps in the future if your going to present an argument you will see fit to elaborate and provide full facts..or save both our times and escape the conversastions

Sorry chief.... you've proven to me reading your other posts that you can't have a civil conversation... but I'm a sucker for punishment:

Ok... explain to me what "they" you are looking for... it's a long text and I'm not sure what you're looking for...

.... and I'm wondering if there's any chance you'll admit your error about Sunday worship pre-Constantine?

Any chance?

 

[d.n.irvin]

Early Christians
"...The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." "Geschichte des Sonntags," pp.13, 14

2nd Century Christians
"The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath," Gieseler's "Church History," Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93. Early Christians
"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;...therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." "The Whole Works" of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

2nd, 3rd, 4th Centuries
"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews' Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it." "Sunday a Sabbath." John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

 

[Scott1]

Early Christians ....

You have quoted some historians opinions.... do you have anything from the actual time period (as I have provided) that prove your point?