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Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

Are all Ten commandments binding?


  • Total voters
    79

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I don't understand your question... it refers to any and all sabbath days. If someone is trying to determine your Christianity by which Sabbath you do or don't observe, then they are caught in legalism: following rules and regulations rather than letting the Spirit control your heart.

How do you approach all of the scriptures that talk about FREEDOM? Do you follow the Ten Commandments? Are you ensnared by following rules rather than your heart?

Scuba Pete,

re: "Are you a legalist too?"


If by legalist, you mean someone who thinks that the supreme being of the Bible wants people to obey him, then, yes, I guess I am.


re: "Are you also of the volition that we are still under the Law?"


Romans 6:14 suggests that we aren’t.

BTW, you have a question directed to you at post #463.
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
I don't understand your question... it refers to any and all sabbath days. If someone is trying to determine your Christianity by which Sabbath you do or don't observe, then they are caught in legalism: following rules and regulations rather than letting the Spirit control your heart.

How do you approach all of the scriptures that talk about FREEDOM?
In accordance with all other Scripture -The Bible is not a "smörgåsbord" its not a "pick and choose" I can't classify certain scripture to be above another -ALL scripture is equal, according to the Bible -You know The Bible says TRUTH brings about freedom
Do you follow the Ten Commandments?
With Gods help -but I am a sinner like everyone else -no person is Holier than another, according to the Bible
Are you ensnared by following rules rather than your heart?
The universe is governed by "Rules" -Do you think angels follow "Rules" in Heaven? If the answer is yes -then aren't human beings subject to Gods "Rules" also?

Sunday worship is a tradition of men -IT IS NOT BIBLE BASED.
Do some research.Revelation says this not me: Revelation says that The "Mother" of Sunday worship teaching is the Roman Catholic Church -and other
Protestant Christian religious groups that worship on Sunday are her "Children" -Now this is according to Revelation -not me -not my interpretation -this is what the Bible Prophesies. So how do you[as a follower of Christ] deal with such a revealing text of scripture?
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Sunday worship is a tradition of men -IT IS NOT BIBLE BASED.
Do some research.Revelation says this not me: Revelation says that The "Mother" of Sunday worship teaching is the Roman Catholic Church -and other
Protestant Christian religious groups that worship on Sunday are her "Children" -Now this is according to Revelation -not me -not my interpretation -this is what the Bible Prophesies. So how do you[as a follower of Christ] deal with such a revealing text of scripture?
Dude your hate of the RC Church is becoming so apparent and I find it disgusting. Is your whole schtick based on this hate? How unbecoming! You can produce NO SCRIPTURE that states what you just posted. I am no Catholic, but neither am I going to slander them. Your hate is causing you to twist scripture in a most unholy fashion. No wonder you did not listen to ALL of the scriptures I presented. You have an anti-Catholic agenda that you want to push. Count me OUT of this discussion until you repent of this intentional bias.

You have heard me refer to the ACID TEST for a Christian. You just flunked it hands down.

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV
 

Deut 13:1

Well-Known Member
That doesn't answer my question, how is one supposed to keep the sabbath holy according to you?
For a jew....

www.jewfaq.org said:
At about 2PM or 3PM on Friday afternoon, observant Jews leave the office to begin Shabbat preparations. The mood is much like preparing for the arrival of a special, beloved guest: the house is cleaned, the family bathes and dresses up, the best dishes and tableware are set, a festive meal is prepared. In addition, everything that cannot be done during Shabbat must be set up in advance: lights and appliances must be set (or timers placed on them, if the household does so), the light bulb in the refrigerator must be removed or unscrewed, so it does not turn on when you open it, and preparations for the remaining Shabbat meals must be made.
woman.gif
Shabbat, like all Jewish days, begins at sunset, because in the story of creation in Genesis Ch. 1, you will notice that it says, "And there was evening, and there was morning, one day." From this, we infer that a day begins with evening, that is, sunset. For the precise time when Shabbat begins and ends in your area, consult the list of candle lighting times provided by the Orthodox Union, by Chabad or by any Jewish calendar.
Shabbat candles are lit and a blessing is recited no later than eighteen minutes before sunset. This ritual, performed by the woman of the house, officially marks the beginning of Shabbat. Two candles are lit, representing the two commandments: zakhor (remember) and shamor (observe), discussed above.
The family then attends a brief evening service (45 minutes - that's brief by Jewish standards - see Jewish Liturgy).
After services, the family comes home for a festive, leisurely dinner. Before dinner, the man of the house recites Kiddush, a prayer over wine sanctifying Shabbat. The usual prayer for eating bread is recited over two loaves of challah, a sweet, eggy bread shaped in a braid. The family then eats dinner. Although there are no specific requirements or customs regarding what to eat, meals are generally stewed or slow cooked items, because of the prohibition against cooking during Shabbat. (Things that are mostly cooked before Shabbat and then reheated or kept warm are OK).
After dinner, the birkat ha-mazon (grace after meals) is recited. Although this is done every day, on Shabbat, it is done in a leisurely manner with many upbeat tunes.
By the time all of this is completed, it may be 9PM or later. The family has an hour or two to talk or study Torah, and then go to sleep.
The next morning Shabbat services begin around 9AM and continue until about noon. After services, the family says kiddush again and has another leisurely, festive meal. A typical afternoon meal is cholent, a very slowly cooked stew. My recipe is below. By the time birkat ha-mazon is done, it is about 2PM. The family studies Torah for a while, talks, takes an afternoon walk, plays some checkers, or engages in other leisure activities. A short afternoon nap is not uncommon. It is traditional to have a third meal before Shabbat is over. This is usually a light meal in the late afternoon.
Shabbat ends at nightfall, when three stars are visible, approximately 40 minutes after sunset. At the conclusion of Shabbat, the family performs a concluding ritual called Havdalah (separation, division). Blessings are recited over wine, spices and candles. Then a blessing is recited regarding the division between the sacred and the secular, between Shabbat and the working days, etc. For details, see Havdalah Home Ritual.
As you can see, Shabbat is a very full day when it is properly observed, and very relaxing. You really don't miss being unable to turn on the TV, drive a car or go shopping.

For the gentiles, do what you want, this includes all christians.


For a shkutz or shiksa ...well, I won't say what they should do. :fight:
 

rstrats

Active Member
Scuba Pete,

re: "I don't understand your question..."

In going back and reviewing the posts that reference Colossians 2:16, I can understand why. I erroneously thought that there was a disagreement as to whether or not the "sabbaths’ mentioned in the verse were weekly Sabbaths. And I didn’t see what difference it would make.



re: "How do you approach all of the scriptures that talk about FREEDOM?"

With an attitude of trying to decide exactly what the intent of the writers’ use of the word was.



re: "Do you follow the Ten Commandments? "

For the first two, depending on how you define "gods" and " not bowing down and serving them", I would say, yes. For the third, and the fifth through the tenth, I would say that I generally try to do my best to comply with the principles that they embrace. I currently do not observe the fourth.



re: "Are you ensnared by following rules rather than your heart?"

When I approach a "STOP" sign and I can clearly see that there is no other traffic in sight, I stop anyway even though my feeling is that it would be alright to keep going. I probably do this from conditioning and also from fear that a patrolman might be in the area. At other times, rules and feelings coincide.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
re: "Are you ensnared by following rules rather than your heart?"

When I approach a "STOP" sign and I can clearly see that there is no other traffic in sight, I stop anyway even though my feeling is that it would be alright to keep going. I probably do this from conditioning and also from fear that a patrolman might be in the area. At other times, rules and feelings coincide.
Forgive me... I meant religious rules or laws. Obeying traffic laws comes from us being a citizen of a town/state/country. It is my belief that we were freed from all laws but two: Love God and Love everyone else.
 

rstrats

Active Member
Mestemia,

re: "You have not yet shown where the Bible defines which day of the week Sunday is."

Since "Sunday" is not a term that is used in the Bible, how can it define what it is? And specifically, what is your point in asking the question?
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
Dude your hate of the RC Church is becoming so apparent and I find it disgusting. Is your whole schtick based on this hate?
I do not hate any one or any religious groups. But I the love Truth. Were you aware that "Satan" -means accuser of the brethren. I mention that because you are the only one "consistently" making accusations -false accusations at that. Spend some time studying and praying -Bible Prophecy states this NOT ME
How unbecoming! You can produce NO SCRIPTURE that states what you just posted.
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Revelation 17:9
If you need a Biblical explanation of this text, I'll be happy to give you some references.

I am no Catholic, but neither am I going to slander them.
Slander- A false and malicious statement or report about someone. I thought you believed in the Bible - you are "slandering" By calling the Bible and Catholics a lie
Your hate is causing you to twist scripture in a most unholy fashion.
Your hate of TRUTH is causing you to twist scripture in a most unholy fashion.
No wonder you did not listen to ALL of the scriptures I presented.
The scriptures you quoted -are not in harmony with ALL other scriptures on the matter
You have an anti-Catholic agenda that you want to push.
I have a Biblical agenda to push -a Bible Prophecy agenda to be more specific -But messengers have historically been killed for bringing messages -You have a Bible -study and compare the Prophecies of Daniel and Revelation for yourself - the Bible says "study to show thyself approved" I take it your upset because I study
Count me OUT of this discussion until you repent of this intentional bias.
We can count you out of this discussion on account of your lack of Biblical knowledge and willful ignorance on the said subject matter.
You have heard me refer to the ACID TEST for a Christian.
As a Christian -" Man's personal opinions" as they relate to scripture -have no place - the Bible tells me to "trust not unto thy own understanding"
You just flunked it hands down.
Is that what the NIV says ? or what you say
John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

Love comes from God, -God in His "Love" for "Man" has given us His "Only begotten Son"[Jesus Christ the righteous] and a record of His Son's teachings -the Bible, -now in the Revelation of Jesus Christ [the last book of the Bible]-Jesus reveals just how Satan is deceiving millions of Christians with a false system of worship -because he "Loves" us and does not want us to be "deceived."
Who is the Anti -Christ according t the Bible?
Now until you have read Daniel and Revelation -how do you even get to comment on something you know nothing about?[not that I'm singling you out - I mean anyone]

BTW: There will be people of ALL denominations in Heaven -the Bible says "God winks at your ignorance." and judges each man according to the "Light" He has given them. NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that God pardons "willful ignorance"



 

silvermoon383

Well-Known Member
I don't usually comment when threads get this long since I don't have the time to see if my points and arguments haven't already been thrown in, but I figured I'd throw in my $0.02.

The teachings of my faith are quite clear about the Sabbath day. Thanks to modern revelation, we recieved the following from the Lord Himself:

9 And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;
10 For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;
11 Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;
12 But remember that on this, the Lord's day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 59:9 - 12, revealed 7 Aug. 1831 (a Sunday))

The use of the word "this" in verses 10 and 12 denote Sunday as the Lord's Day (the Sabbath).
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
I have to completely disagree.
You have not yet shown where the Bible defines which day of the week Sunday is.

Are you perhaps related to Mr. Calvin?

Ahh... your back on that again. Well, when you can show and prove that Sunday is Not the first day of the week -then we will have something to talk about. If I recall correctly I gave you credible information on the subject many posts ago -on the Biblical record of continuity of the 7 day cycle as well as scientific record. But you didn't believe, you also didn't have anything to post to the contrary either.

So now what, read my signature text -No where is it inferred or implied that people will "Believe"


 

Aqualung

Tasty
Ahh... your back on that again. Well, when you can show and prove that Sunday is Not the first day of the week -then we will have something to talk about. If I recall correctly I gave you credible information on the subject many posts ago -on the Biblical record of continuity of the 7 day cycle as well as scientific record. But you didn't believe, you also didn't have anything to post to the contrary either.

So now what, read my signature text -No where is it inferred or implied that people will "Believe"



Sunday is the seventh day of the week in many countries. Are they allowed to worship on Sunday?
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
I don't usually comment when threads get this long since I don't have the time to see if my points and arguments haven't already been thrown in, but I figured I'd throw in my $0.02.

The teachings of my faith are quite clear about the Sabbath day. Thanks to modern revelation, we recieved the following from the Lord Himself:

9 And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;
10 For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;
11 Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;
12 But remember that on this, the Lord's day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 59:9 - 12, revealed 7 Aug. 1831 (a Sunday))

The use of the word "this" in verses 10 and 12 denote Sunday as the Lord's Day (the Sabbath).
Most Christian churches base their doctrines(teachings) on Bible texts. Sound Biblical doctrines are developed from an in-depth study of all Scriptures related to a certain topic -- examined within there recorded context

The Bible leaves no doubt which Day belongs to the Lord. All Scriptures that define the Lord's special day assign the honor to Saturday the seventh day of the week. Does that surprise you? Did you know that there is no Bible reference to the first day of the week as being the Lord's Day. Not one single scripture makes the connection. There are only eight Scripture's that refer to the "first day of the week" (five of which refer to the same event)

This teaching has absolutely no Scripture to support it. It is a tradition of man practiced by Catholics and most Protestants.That tradition substitutes "Sunday- keeping" in place of keeping Gods seventh-day (Saturday) Sabbath Commandment.

If you like we can trace the origin and history of this custom, which the Catholic Church claims to have instigated and handed down as their "Mark of Authority" to change the Word of God.

" All to well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition...making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down..."Mark 7:9.13
With those words , Jesus rebuked the Pharisees of His day. Do Christians who keep man's tradition of Sunday worship hear the echo of Christ's reprimand?
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
Sunday is the seventh day of the week in many countries. Are they allowed to worship on Sunday?

Aqua man whats up!

Hey you got me. I had no idea that Sunday is the seventh-day of the week in other countries. I'll have to do some research on that. Although Bible Prophecy says
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25
Exellent question
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Ahh... your back on that again. Well, when you can show and prove that Sunday is Not the first day of the week -then we will have something to talk about. If I recall correctly I gave you credible information on the subject many posts ago -on the Biblical record of continuity of the 7 day cycle as well as scientific record. But you didn't believe, you also didn't have anything to post to the contrary either.
Very convenient for you... leaving it up to someone else to establish that the "continuity of the 7 day cycle" is wrong, since you know full well this would require first proving Young Earth Creation, then proving that the 7 day cycle got loused up somewhere near the beginning.

Maybe for starters, you can prove that 7-day creation literally occurred. Without that, there's not much point debating which day of the week God rested, is there?

Your position requires that 7-day creation is a literal, historical fact, and that Genesis wasn't meant to be metaphorical or folkloric. How about you start by demonstrating conclusively that God did create for 6 days and rest for 1, and then maybe we can get down to the brass tacks of working out on which day he rested. By not doing this, you're putting the cart before the horse, IMO.
 

rstrats

Active Member
9-10ths Penguin,

re: "...because Jesus was sinless, and the days of the week are supposedly undisturbed from Gospel times to now, that what Jesus called the Sabbath must be the true Sabbath, because otherwise He would have violated the commandment and hence not be sinless... rstrats, is that a fair description of your argument?"

Yes it is.
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
Very convenient for you... leaving it up to someone else to establish that the "continuity of the 7 day cycle" is wrong, since you know full well this would require first proving Young Earth Creation, then proving that the 7 day cycle got loused up somewhere near the beginning.
Ultimately, I don't have to prove -all the Bible tells me to do is "Believe" but for me personally, there is enough evidence of the "7day literal Creation" and the "Flood"
Maybe for starters, you can prove that 7-day creation literally occurred. Without that, there's not much point debating which day of the week God rested, is there?
"In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." Gen.1:1
Your position requires that 7-day creation is a literal, historical fact, and that Genesis wasn't meant to be metaphorical or folkloric. How about you start by demonstrating conclusively that God did create for 6 days and rest for 1, and then maybe we can get down to the brass tacks of working out on which day he rested. By not doing this, you're putting the cart before the horse, IMO.
".... be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished 2 Peter 3:2,3,5,6



What more proof do you need than the Bible itself -The Word of God. You know, the Bible says that, the reason most people will be "Lost" -will not be because they are exceptionally wicked, ["For all have sinned"] -But because of their "unbelief."


Which reminds me of another reason Satan wants us to forget the Seventh Day Sabbath

You have heard about the "Mark of the Beast" in Bible Prophecy -Well God's people have a " Mark" also. " ..Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads". Revelation 7:3

What is this "seal" or "mark" the righteous have in their foreheads?
God's seal is found in His law. A seal is what makes a document official, and it normally contains three characteristics:
Name, Office, and Territory. An example would be "Cyrus king of Persia" in Ezra 1:1.
Take a guess as to Which of the Ten Commandments contains all the elements of a seal -God's Mark? For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is.Exodus 20:11

The fourth commandment is the only one that contains all three elements of a seal: (1) "The Lord"--His name, (2) "made"--His office as Creator, (3)"heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is"--His territory.

See if you can take away the fourth Commandment - the "Seal of God" the" Mark of His Authority" you take away the sign of His power to create and sanctify.
Then we are open to any and all of Satan's fables and deceptions[ like the "belief" in "evolution over millions of years" vs the "belief" in " Creation"


God clearly states that He gave the Sabbath -as It is His seal, or mark of authority. The words "seal," "sign," "mark," and "token" are used interchangeably throughout the Bible (compare Genesis 17:11 with Romans 4:11 and Revelation 7:3 with Ezekiel 9:4).
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"When the Pharisees said of Christ that He had broken the Sabbath Day, that He had defied the Law of Moses, that He had threatened to destroy the Temple and the Holy City of Jerusalem, and that He deserved to be crucified -- We know that all these slanderous attacks had no result in hindering the spread of the Gospel!
The Sun of Christ shone brilliantly in the sky, and 106 the breath of the Holy Spirit wafted over the whole earth!
And I say unto you that no calumny is able to prevail against the Light of God; it can only result in causing it to be more universally recognized. If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 105)


That means I needn't worry.

Regards,
Scott
 

d.n.irvin

Active Member
"When the Pharisees said of Christ that He had broken the Sabbath Day, that He had defied the Law of Moses, that He had threatened to destroy the Temple and the Holy City of Jerusalem, and that He deserved to be crucified -- We know that all these slanderous attacks had no result in hindering the spread of the Gospel!
The Sun of Christ shone brilliantly in the sky, and 106 the breath of the Holy Spirit wafted over the whole earth!
And I say unto you that no calumny is able to prevail against the Light of God; it can only result in causing it to be more universally recognized. If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 105)


That means I needn't worry.

Regards,
Scott

True Words- Scott -True Words indeed
 
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