Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[d.n.irvin]

Address me with scripture

This room is called "Biblical Debates" is it not. Someone show me in the Bible where God rested on and sanctified the 1st Day of the week. In any Bible or version there of.

 

[Storm]

Address me with scripture

No. I speak for myself.

EDIT: and as I have already stated, I don't value Scripture in the same way you do. I will not make myself a hypocrite.

 

[McBell]

Address me with scripture

Does no good.
You merely sidestep the issue with a non reply response and then start preaching.
Don't believe me?
Try looking at post #41 and your response/preaching to it (post #48).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Address me with scripture

How about you point out where in the Bible it says that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week.

Also, are you able to show that what we now call "Saturday" is actually on the same day of the week as God's day of rest as described in Genesis? Which calendar do you use to measure?

If you can't be sure that our week corresponds to the original week anyhow, does it really matter which day you use? If you aren't certain that by back-dating whatever calendar you now use to the creation of the universe, that God's day of rest would fall on a Saturday, what point is there in getting nit-picky?

If, thanks to imprecise calendars and human error, the Saturday and Sunday that you're quibbling over are actually Tuesday and Wednesday to God in the "official" calendar of His judgement, does it really matter which one you pick?

 

[d.n.irvin]

How about you point out where in the Bible it says that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week.
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Genesis 2:2-3

"The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God." Exodus 20:10. "And when the sabbath was past, ...very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre." Mark 16:1,2.

Also, are you able to show that what we now call "Saturday" is actually on the same day of the week as God's day of rest as described in Genesis? Which calendar do you use to measure?
The U.S. Naval Observatory reported that there has never been any change in the continuity of the weekly cycle. The Seventh Day Sabbath that we have today is the same that Jesus observed.
If you can't be sure that our week corresponds to the original week anyhow, does it really matter which day you use? If you aren't certain that by back-dating whatever calendar you now use to the creation of the universe, that God's day of rest would fall on a Saturday, what point is there in getting nit-picky?
I can send you a link for more proof if you want...
If, thanks to imprecise calendars and human error, the Saturday and Sunday that you're quibbling over are actually Tuesday and Wednesday to God in the "official" calendar of His judgement, does it really matter which one you pick?

Who is responsible for all of the confusion regarding the Sabbath?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God." Exodus 20:10

Fair enough.

The U.S. Naval Observatory reported that there has never been any change in the continuity of the weekly cycle. The Seventh Day Sabbath that we have today is the same that Jesus observed.

You're joking, right?

If you're asserting that the US Naval Observatory, for whatever reason, would be willing to claim that through all history, going back before every single known calendar system, back through the personal reckoning of Adam, Eve and their descendents, back to the creation of the Heavens and the Earth... that every single day has followed in the sequence of "Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday" without interruption or fail, I think you'll have to provide some evidence, both that the US Naval Observatory actually did say this, and of the rationale they used to come to this conclusion... if you want us to take it seriously, that is.

 

[MaddLlama]

But, Jesus didn't observe the Sabbath. He healed people and performed miracles on the Sabbath.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Does no good.
You merely sidestep the issue with a non reply response and then start preaching.
Don't believe me?
Try looking at post #41 and your response/preaching to it (post #48).

In your post you list a portion Moses Ceremonial Laws- in a response to, God changes is laws, Correct

(post #48)Friends why the confusion on Moses Ceremonial Laws (some 600 or more) - which Moses gave to the people, and were nailed to the cross(ex. being that Christ was the ultimate sacrifice,therefore no need of sacrificial system any more etc.) and Gods 10 Commandment Law -which were written in stone with Gods own hand.
At Sinai God codified his law for all men not just the Israelites. Through an investigation of the Old Testament you will see that Gods chosen people suffered almost exclusively because of Sabbath breaking and Idolatry. Furthermore the Israelites were to introduce The Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world and not keep it to themselves.

Did Gods Ten Commandment Law exist before Sinai?- If it did not,Then that would mean- No one on earth knew right from wrong- which also means no one would have sinned- Since sin is transgression of the law. Why would Jesus come to save people from sin if they are not sinning?

The beginning paragraph tries to clear up the difference between Moses Ceremonial Laws and Ordinances vs. Gods Ten Commandment Law. The rest further adds creditability to the validity of the Sabbath.

 

[MaddLlama]

If you're asserting that the US Naval Observatory, for whatever reason, would be willing to claim that through all history, going back before every single known calendar system, back through the personal reckoning of Adam, Eve and their descendents, back to the creation of the Heavens and the Earth... that every single day has followed in the sequence of "Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday" without interruption or fail, I think you'll have to provide some evidence, both that the US Naval Observatory actually did say this, and of the rationale they used to come to this conclusion... if you want us to take it seriously, that is.

That would be pretty silly, since the days of the week we know carry the namesakes of Polytheistic Gods. Are Christians required to observe the sabbath on "Saturn's Day"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That would be pretty silly, since the days of the week we know carry the namesakes of Polytheistic Gods. Are Christians required to observe the sabbath on "Saturn's Day"?

Even if you use Hebrew names or just go "First Day, Second Day, etc.", it's still an outlandish statement to make.

Edit: some denominations do prefer "First Day, Second Day" because of the pagan origins of our standard names for the days of the week.

 

[d.n.irvin]

*View an official U.S. Naval Observatory Document sent in 1932 that verifys that there has been no change in the weekly cycle.

 

[MaddLlama]

*View an official U.S. Naval Observatory Document sent in 1932 that verifys that there has been no change in the weekly cycle.

Uh huh....but you will note that they don't provide any sort of proof in the matter. I'm sure it would take no time at all to find plenty of well-read, modern historians and scholars that would laugh at that document.
I could tell you that chickens are hairy. Just because it appears in print on this website doesn't make it true. If one is smart, they'll identify the evidence for a claim. If they aren't....well...then they just accept things at face value.

Besides, what does the naval observatory know about the history of calendars..? Shouldn't they be busy watching the ocean?

 

[d.n.irvin]

I made a post last night about names- God uses the number system the way I see it, because in his all knowing -all powerfulness- He who knows the beginning from the end knew Satan would in the last days try to confuse his Holy Day.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon [devil] was wroth with the woman [the church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [faithful during the end time], which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[d.n.irvin]

Uh huh....but you will note that they don't provide any sort of proof in the matter. I'm sure it would take no time at all to find plenty of well-read, modern historians and scholars that would laugh at that document.
Now 1+1 still ='s 2
I could tell you that chickens are hairy. Just because it appears in print on this website doesn't make it true. If one is smart, they'll identify the evidence for a claim. If they aren't....well...then they just accept things at face value.
SO investigate -I hope you do for everything -Don't ever take my word for it or any one else's for that matter- I'm satisfied with the validity of the information I present-I do my homework
Besides, what does the naval observatory know about the history of calendars..? Shouldn't they be busy watching the ocean?

The U.S. Naval Observatory is one of the oldest scientific agencies in the country. Established in 1830 as the Depot of Charts and Instruments, its primary mission was to care for the U.S. Navy's chronometers, charts and other navigational equipment. Today, USNO is the preeminent authority in the areas of Precise Time and Astrometry, and distributes Earth Orientation parameters and other Astronomical Data required for accurate navigation and fundamental astronomy. USNO headquarters in Washington, DC........taken from there website

Truth Can Withstand Investigation

 

[d.n.irvin]

Just email them on the validity of the document, I did

But don't ask to see mine get your own

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

*View an official U.S. Naval Observatory Document sent in 1932 that verifys that there has been no change in the weekly cycle.

This is what you're basing your assertion on?

As to Question (1) - I can only state that in connection with the proposed simplification of the calendar, we have had occasion to investigate the results of the works of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them that has ever had the slightest doubt about the continuity of the weekly cycle since long before the Christian era.

I see a few problems with what you're claiming:

- we have no reason to believe that an image of a simple typewritten letter from a web site that appears to have a very particular agenda is true (though I concede we also have no particular reason to believe it's a forgery either).

- we have no reason to believe that the individual author of the letter had the knowledge or technical background to be certain of his claim. The subject matter of this letter goes well beyond the stated mission of the USNO, so it's doubtful that they would even have had anyone on staff who would have been able to give an expert opinion on this matter.

- we do not have the original letter and questions that this letter is obviously in reply to. This does not let us see the original context in which these statements were made.

- the letter does not state what you're claiming it does. It doesn't unequivocably state that the weekly cycle is unbroken, only that as of 1932, no articles that the author was personally familiar with stated any particular doubt on the matter. Presumably there were other experts at the time, and other work has been done on this matter since then.

- what claims are made in the letter are limited in scope. It specifically gives a qualifier of "long before the Christian era". Even to a young-Earth creationist, the time span from Genesis to "long before the Christian era" could conceivably be millenia. You're still relying on an unverified chain from God to Adam, through his descendents, to the first people to create an actual calendar, to those who created the calendars that are referred to in the letter.

BTW - the USNO was also the originator of this map. Do you think it can be completely relied upon for, say, land surveying?

 

[d.n.irvin]

This is what you're basing your assertion on?



I see a few problems with what you're claiming:

- we have no reason to believe that an image of a simple typewritten letter from a web site that appears to have a very particular agenda is true (though I concede we also have no particular reason to believe it's a forgery either).

- we have no reason to believe that the individual author of the letter had the knowledge or technical background to be certain of his claim. The subject matter of this letter goes well beyond the stated mission of the USNO, so it's doubtful that they would even have had anyone on staff who would have been able to give an expert opinion on this matter.

- we do not have the original letter and questions that this letter is obviously in reply to. This does not let us see the original context in which these statements were made.

- the letter does not state what you're claiming it does. It doesn't unequivocably state that the weekly cycle is unbroken, only that as of 1932, no articles that the author was personally familiar with stated any particular doubt on the matter. Presumably there were other experts at the time, and other work has been done on this matter since then.

- what claims are made in the letter are limited in scope. It specifically gives a qualifier of "long before the Christian era". Even to a young-Earth creationist, the time span from Genesis to "long before the Christian era" could conceivably be millenia. You're still relying on an unverified chain from God to Adam, through his descendents, to the first people to create an actual calendar, to those who created the calendars that are referred to in the letter.

BTW - the USNO was also the originator of this map. Do you think it can be completely relied upon for, say, land surveying?

Truth Can Withstand Investigation -take every thing you just said- put it in an email and send it to the U.S. Naval observatory- and wait for response.

The crux of what their saying is that since the earth has been revolving we have been on a seven day cycle. thats it

 

[MaddLlama]

What does the USNO have to say about the Mayan calendar? Lunar Calendars? Ancient cultures that didn't use a 7-day week at all?

 

[Scott1]

What does the USNO have to say about the Mayan calendar? Lunar Calendars? Ancient cultures that didn't use a 7-day week at all?

Isn't it obvious? They're all in HELL anyhow so who cares!

Right d.n.?:areyoucra

 

[doppelganger]

What does the USNO have to say about the Mayan calendar? Lunar Calendars? Ancient cultures that didn't use a 7-day week at all?

They were all lied to by Satan, obviously.