Why have Christians forgotten the fourth Commandment?

[Scuba Pete]

Absolutely. And another question to those that believe the Law is nothing.. You believe it is written in our hearts now instead of the tablets. So doesn't that mean that the Law still exsists, and is still written.

The Old Law has faded away, and only the Law of Christ exists: Love each other.

Romans 10

1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. NIV

It can't get any plainer than that.

Galatians 6

Doing Good to All

1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5 for each one should carry his own load.
6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature[a]will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

11 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!
12 Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. 14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. NIV

What counts? Not your law but becoming a new creation.

It's amazing how the NT which is so devoted to FREEDOM from the law should inspire so many of you to such legalism. You are like a dove who has the cage door open and you are simply too afraid to taste FREEDOM.

2 Corinthians 3

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

If you are relying on YOUR understanding of the law, then you have no room for the Spirit. Without the Spirit you can not understand the importance of a complete and utter rejection of the old law.

 

[mikmik]

The Old Law has faded away, and only the Law of Christ exists: Love each other.

Romans 10

1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. NIV

See, this is exactly what I was talking about.. I asked you a question in post 734,, ignored. My points in 737, 739 and 740, unadresses and ignored. I really wanted to know how the scriptures contained in these can possible exist with the theory that the law is void. This would be a clear contradiction in teachings and practice.

I really won't have time to post stuff today.. I'm helping friends out, then preparing for the Sabbath of course! But I have a minute to address one thing you brought up here.

The original Greek work for end (Christ is the end of the Law) is telos. Telos literally means "The aim or end purpose of a thing, goal" example.. You would say to what end will you keep doing that,, and the answer is until some goal or purpose is obtained. So Paul saying that Christ is the (halting, dead end, no more law) end of the law, but also saying; do we void the law through faith, certainly not; and the doers of the law will be justified (and this list goes on!) would not make sense at all, quite a contradictions,, big time. But if you realize that it says that Christ is the end goal or purpose of the law, you realize that Jesus was perfect, perfectly righteous, and we should strive to become just like Him. If we use the law, along with the gift of the HS for divine guidance and understanding, that puts our goal in sight and obtainable. AND, then this verse would be in complete harmony with all of Paul's teachings, and Christ's teaching, and wouldn't leave a person reading both confused about which way to go.

Before you say it,, I added nothing to scriptures here, and I am not a legalist. I believe the only way is through Christ, and the indwelling of the HS is a must, and faith is a must. I also believe that there are still rules to follow along the way though..

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14.15 (and the list goes on and on with examples of the commandments being required).

Jesus came not to do His own will, but the will of His Father.. but we are somehow above that and have a great freedom to do whatever we want??? Hmmm, I don't think so.

mik

 

[Ben Masada]

See, this is exactly what I was talking about.. I asked you a question in post 734,, ignored. My points in 737, 739 and 740, unadresses and ignored. I really wanted to know how the scriptures contained in these can possible exist with the theory that the law is void. This would be a clear contradiction in teachings and practice.

I really won't have time to post stuff today.. I'm helping friends out, then preparing for the Sabbath of course! But I have a minute to address one thing you brought up here.

The original Greek work for end (Christ is the end of the Law) is telos. Telos literally means "The aim or end purpose of a thing, goal" example.. You would say to what end will you keep doing that,, and the answer is until some goal or purpose is obtained. So Paul saying that Christ is the (halting, dead end, no more law) end of the law, but also saying; do we void the law through faith, certainly not; and the doers of the law will be justified (and this list goes on!) would not make sense at all, quite a contradictions,, big time. But if you realize that it says that Christ is the end goal or purpose of the law, you realize that Jesus was perfect, perfectly righteous, and we should strive to become just like Him. If we use the law, along with the gift of the HS for divine guidance and understanding, that puts our goal in sight and obtainable. AND, then this verse would be in complete harmony with all of Paul's teachings, and Christ's teaching, and wouldn't leave a person reading both confused about which way to go.

Before you say it,, I added nothing to scriptures here, and I am not a legalist. I believe the only way is through Christ, and the indwelling of the HS is a must, and faith is a must. I also believe that there are still rules to follow along the way though..

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14.15 (and the list goes on and on with examples of the commandments being required).

Jesus came not to do His own will, but the will of His Father.. but we are somehow above that and have a great freedom to do whatever we want??? Hmmm, I don't think so.

mik

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well Mik, the truth is that Paul did say that "Christ is the end of the Law." (Rom. 10:4) And that "in his flesh Jesus abolished the Law with its commands and precepts." (Ephe. 2:15) Never mind that he is in complete contradiction with Jesus himself who declared to have come to confirm the Law and the Prophets to the letter. In a word, Judaism, which was his faith. (Mat. 5:17-19) What are you trying
to fix, a hole in the boat in the middle of the ocean?

Ben

 

[Scuba Pete]

Sorry I completely missed this earlier.

So I guess I don't understand. Do you believe God is perfect?

Yes.

Do you believe that Jesus is perfect?

Sure

"All scripture is ispired by God", so do you believe that God inspired some scripture to be imperfect,, but it would still meet the criteria stated above?

I don't know that any scripture is perfect. While it was inspired by God, it was written by man. Imperfect man has been God's choice from the beginning. Why? To show his glory.

("profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work") I really just don't understand what you believe and where it comes from. That is soooo not a put down, I just haven't gotten to that point where I can at least say,, okay I understand, I just don't agree.. you know? Deifying the scriptures is a fairly modern phenomenon as far as I can tell. Their use has been subverted from being a tool to perfect the saints to being some sort of rule book.

I know this isn't exactly a Sabbath issue, but everything I believe comes from 'all scripture',, so it is at least a related topic.

Legalism is at the CORE of the Sabbath issue. Legalists want rules, because they think that these rules provide some sort of control. Scriptures indicate that this control is illusory and while it may sound pious misses the point of us being a "New Creation" that is freed from such laws.

 

[Scuba Pete]

but also saying; do we void the law through faith, certainly not;

Here is (to me) the crux of the misunderstanding. Jesus did not come to VOID or ABOLISH the law. He came to COMPLETE or FULFILL them. When you pay off your mortgage (your debt), you aren't abolishing that debt: you are fulfilling the requirements of it. You have completed the agreement of the loan and are not voiding it. When this happens, you don't continue to pay your mortgage company, now do you? That law no longer applies to you, because the price has been paid.

Matthew 5

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. NIV

John 19

28Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." 29A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips. 30When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. NIV

So it is with us. Jesus paid the price for our sins, and so we are DEAD to the world and all of it's laws. Instead we are ALIVE in Jesus to follow the Law of the Spirit of Christ. Those are easy to understand and impossible to do without the Spirit. Love God and Love everyone else.

Before you say it,, I added nothing to scriptures here, and I am not a legalist. I believe the only way is through Christ, and the indwelling of the HS is a must, and faith is a must.

If you ascribe something to scripture that is not ascribed by the scripture, then you are adding to them.

I also believe that there are still rules to follow along the way though..

And thus descend into legalism by definition.

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14.15 (and the list goes on and on with examples of the commandments being required).

Let's look at that in CONTEXT.

John 14

15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." NIV

Notice the Spirit? How do we know God's mind? By having his Spirit within us.

Jesus came not to do His own will, but the will of His Father.. but we are somehow above that and have a great freedom to do whatever we want??? Hmmm, I don't think so.

So, you are telling me that Christ died for NOTHING? How sad.

Galatians 2

19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" NIV

 

[Scuba Pete]

Don’t you use decompression tables? Aren’t they a set of rules? You don’t guess how much nitrogen is in your blood.

Tables are a SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess). You can follow them and still get bent or sometimes break them with impunity. But, there are no Scuba Police waiting to throw you into the clink should you violate them. They are a guide, and if you don't have the skill to use the guide, your chances of DCS increases dramatically.

Jews follow the OT. We don’t guess about the spiritual consequences of our actions.

You lost me with this.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Another point, about this scripture;

Let's look at the Scripture where Jesus GAVE us his NEW command.

John 13

34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

 

[InGodWeTrust]

Hi. I just joined this forum and got attracted by this thread. I might have to jump into what I would have to imagine is a hotly contested issue. I generally think you have to be lenient about the Sabbath. I was raised as a fourth generation Seventh Day Adventist and I know that people can get really weird about how to keep the Sabbath. Like some people will say you can go to the beach but not touch the water. Someone else will say you can walk in the water up to your ankles.The next person says you can go in as long as you keep your head dry.
All that stuff is insanity and does not even go along with the teachings of the church. People make up their own rules and go about judging others. To me, the important thing is to just acknowledge that God has the right to demand one day out of seven, to observe the sacredness that he gave that day. So, the Sabbath is a confirmation of God's sovereignty. How you make use of the day is up to you and not something to judge others about. You do not gain salvation by keeping it but you can loose your salvation by having the spirit of rebellion in your heart.

 

[InGodWeTrust]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well Mik, the truth is that Paul did say that "Christ is the end of the Law." (Rom. 10:4) And that "in his flesh Jesus abolished the Law with its commands and precepts." (Ephe. 2:15) Never mind that he is in complete contradiction with Jesus himself who declared to have come to confirm the Law and the Prophets to the letter. In a word, Judaism, which was his faith. (Mat. 5:17-19) What are you trying
to fix, a hole in the boat in the middle of the ocean?

I think I might disagree with both of you, mainly on technicalities. Both of these things (The writ of condemnation and the writ of Moses.) can be interpreted a couple of ways. The context of the document nailed to the cross was, the barrier between gentiles and Jews. And the exact meaning of the words to describe the thing that was nailed, can go both ways. The verdict against us, or the Law itself.
Jesus' disciples recognized him from the Jordan River and said, "Is this the one spoken of by Moses in the Law?" So, Jesus fulfilled the prophesy about him in "the Law and the Prophets". I think the emphasis on his perfect fulfillment of the law,( as in observing the restrictions and admonishments of the Law ) is miss-placed.

 

[Scuba Pete]

To me, the important thing is to just acknowledge that God has the right to demand one day out of seven,

This is the real issue with legalism. God does not want "just" one day: he wants all seven. In fact, in Acts you find that the disciples met EVERY DAY. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives within me. I no longer GO to a Holy Temple for I AM His Holy Temple.

 

[InGodWeTrust]

This is the real issue with legalism. God does not want "just" one day: he wants all seven. In fact, in Acts you find that the disciples met EVERY DAY. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives within me. I no longer GO to a Holy Temple for I AM His Holy Temple.

Thanks for the reply. I am not caught up on things, so I do not understand your post, exactly. This makes me think of some verses I was quoting last night. (somewhere else) Jesus had the fullness of the Godhead dwelling in him. You can find references to verses that talk about Christ and the Spirit of God dwelling in the believer.
Between the ascension and Pentacost, they gathered at the Temple. There was some reason for that but I do not see what that has to do with us.

 

[Ben Masada]

I think I might disagree with both of you, mainly on technicalities. Both of these things (The writ of condemnation and the writ of Moses.) can be interpreted a couple of ways. The context of the document nailed to the cross was, the barrier between gentiles and Jews. And the exact meaning of the words to describe the thing that was nailed, can go both ways. The verdict against us, or the Law itself.
Jesus' disciples recognized him from the Jordan River and said, "Is this the one spoken of by Moses in the Law?" So, Jesus fulfilled the prophesy about him in "the Law and the Prophets". I think the emphasis our his perfect fulfillment of the law,( as in observing the restrictions and admonishments of the Law ) is miss-placed.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I believe that the so-called recognition of Jesus by the disciples in those words is an
interpolation of the Gospel writer in order to establish Jesus as the one. Then, according to Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus didn't come only to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, but also to make sure we all did the same, if you read verse 19.

Ben :clap

 

[InGodWeTrust]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I believe that the so-called recognition of Jesus by the disciples in those words is an
interpolation of the Gospel writer in order to establish Jesus as the one. Then, according to Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus didn't come only to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, but also to make sure we all did the same, if you read verse 19.

Sorry that I am not in a good frame of mind to discuss all of this, right now. The point I was trying to make was that there are things worth discussing here that relate to this whole question about the Sabbath.
Right now, my mind is disturbed about the "dying god". Whenever I try to get into a serious discussion, I get this mindless stuff that has to do with the dying god, I do not even know what to call it. Like a complex, as in a mental disorder. So I want to steer away from this concept of this, something, like an entity, that has these supernatural qualities. I just went through an experience today that creeped me out. Like some little minion who had this tiny bit of power to inflict himself on others who gave me this line, like from a hypnotic state, that God had to die.
Jesus got on the case of Peter, or someone, about paying a tax that Jesus felt he was exempt from. Also he gave this story about David being exempt from the Levitical law. Jesus did not have to go about his life being concerned about the minute parts of the letter. He went right into giving an expansive and spiritual interpretation to the Law. Jesus was on a mission from God and he could do whatever he wanted to in order to get the job done. So, I do not hold up a scroll and look at one letter and turn and look at Jesus and look at the next letter and look at Jesus again and say "Here is the perfect fulfillment. Jesus had inside him the spirit of God that spoke those words that the prophets wrote on those scrolls.

 

[Ben Masada]

Sorry that I am not in a good frame of mind to discuss all of this, right now. The point I was trying to make was that there are things worth discussing here that relate to this whole question about the Sabbath.
Right now, my mind is disturbed about the "dying god". Whenever I try to get into a serious discussion, I get this mindless stuff that has to do with the dying god, I do not even know what to call it. Like a complex, as in a mental disorder. So I want to steer away from this concept of this, something, like an entity, that has these supernatural qualities. I just went through an experience today that creeped me out. Like some little minion who had this tiny bit of power to inflict himself on others who gave me this line, like from a hypnotic state, that God had to die.
Jesus got on the case of Peter, or someone, about paying a tax that Jesus felt he was exempt from. Also he gave this story about David being exempt from the Levitical law. Jesus did not have to go about his life being concerned about the minute parts of the letter. He went right into giving an expansive and spiritual interpretation to the Law. Jesus was on a mission from God and he could do whatever he wanted to in order to get the job done. So, I do not hold up a scroll and look at one letter and turn and look at Jesus and look at the next letter and look at Jesus again and say "Here is the perfect fulfillment. Jesus had inside him the spirit of God that spoke those words that the prophets wrote on those scrolls.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, you have been disturbed about the "dying god." Nietsche was too for some time
until 1900 when he arrived to the conclusion that inded he had died. That's the anthropomorphic god of religions. I have never been disturbed about a "dying god," because my God cannot die. My God is incorporeal.

Ben:bow:

 

[InGodWeTrust]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So, you have been disturbed about the "dying god." Nietsche was too for some time
until 1900 when he arrived to the conclusion that inded he had died. That's the anthropomorphic god of religions. I have never been disturbed about a "dying god," because my God cannot die. My God is incorporeal.

Alright, I got one vote against, if I understand you correctly.
John was "in the spirit" and saw God on His throne and another being approaches the throne who seems to be "the Lamb of God". The question in my mind is, are these two separate beings or two images of the same? Nowhere does it imply any divinity to the lamb. It is "worthy" to assume a position of strength by virtue of its previous actions and therefore is eligible to receive power. God had already been receiving praise continuously. God already had power and knowledge, as much as there existed of these things, He possessed.

 

[BrasenWall]

The Old Law has faded away, and only the Law of Christ exists: Love each other.

Hello Scuba Pete
Are you refering to verse 13 of Hebrews 8?

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Everytime I bring up scripture proving that christians are to obey God and keep His commandments, I always hear the same argument. The “many” will say, that scripture is not for christians, its for the house of Israel (the 10 scattered tribes) and the house of Judah (the jews). Bring up the above scripture (Hebrews 8), which clearly states its to the house of Israel and the house of Judah and the “many” will claim it for the gentiles. I don’t see a gentile mentioned anywhere. So whats the story? That being said....

All seem to agree. This covenant arrived with the crucified Christ. So the 10 commandments are still in effect for the believer according to Hebrews 8. Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is waxing old and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Are there any other scriptures that say the law is to be written on our heart and yet WE ARE TO BE KEEPING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS?

PROVERBS 7 [1] My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee. [2] KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, and live; and MY LAW as the apple of thine eye. [3] Bind them upon thy fingers, WRITE THEM UPON THE TABLE OF THINE HEART.

Yup

When does Hebrews 8 come to completion?

EZEKIEL 36 [24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, AND WILL BRING YOU INTO YOUR OWN LAND. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that i gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE YOUR GOD.

DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

The 1000 yr period of rest. Yes.... that would be the 10 commandments. Including the 4th

Hey Scuba in post 695 youll find all the scriptures that explain how you are to go about "loving one another"

 

[Ben Masada]

Hello Scuba Pete
Are you refering to verse 13 of Hebrews 8?

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Everytime I bring up scripture proving that christians are to obey God and keep His commandments, I always hear the same argument. The “many” will say, that scripture is not for christians, its for the house of Israel (the 10 scattered tribes) and the house of Judah (the jews). Bring up the above scripture (Hebrews 8), which clearly states its to the house of Israel and the house of Judah and the “many” will claim it for the gentiles. I don’t see a gentile mentioned anywhere. So whats the story? That being said....

All seem to agree. This covenant arrived with the crucified Christ. So the 10 commandments are still in effect for the believer according to Hebrews 8. Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is waxing old and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Are there any other scriptures that say the law is to be written on our heart and yet WE ARE TO BE KEEPING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS?

PROVERBS 7 [1] My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee. [2] KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, and live; and MY LAW as the apple of thine eye. [3] Bind them upon thy fingers, WRITE THEM UPON THE TABLE OF THINE HEART.

Yup

When does Hebrews 8 come to completion?

EZEKIEL 36 [24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and GATHER YOU OUT OF ALL COUNTRIES, AND WILL BRING YOU INTO YOUR OWN LAND. [25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [28] And ye shall dwell in the land that i gave to your fathers; and YE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE YOUR GOD.

DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

The 1000 yr period of rest. Yes.... that would be the 10 commandments. Including the 4th

Hey Scuba in post 695 youll find all the scriptures that explain how you are to go about "loving one another"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To love each other is just in one statement, the confirmation of the whole Law.

Ben :clap

 

[Ben Masada]

Alright, I got one vote against, if I understand you correctly.
John was "in the spirit" and saw God on His throne and another being approaches the throne who seems to be "the Lamb of God". The question in my mind is, are these two separate beings or two images of the same? Nowhere does it imply any divinity to the lamb. It is "worthy" to assume a position of strength by virtue of its previous actions and therefore is eligible to receive power. God had already been receiving praise continuously. God already had power and knowledge, as much as there existed of these things, He possessed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

John was sin the spirit! It sounds to me like a vision or dream. If you read my topic
"A Personal View About Visions" you will understand that everything is possible in a vision or dream, even for a horse to fly, or for someone to see the incorporeal and stay alive.

Ben :clap

 

[BrasenWall]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

To love each other is just in one statement, the confirmation of the whole Law.

Ben :clap

Not sure i understand what your saying Ben.

 

[InGodWeTrust]

BrasenWall,
The change in the covenant is not replacing the old one with an entirely new one.
We have a new and better priest and we have a new and better sacrifice.
So, considering all that, he is able to negotiate a new and better contract, one with new and better promises.
Our new and better deal has the same Law, as its basis, but we get a new and better promise, namely eternal life.