why homosexualy and homosexual marriage is so wrong

[Kirran]

Truth and cultural dominance are not mutually exclusive in this case. Personally, I want both. Or rather, the elimination of the cultural strength of monotheism. And the best way to get that is by promoting truth, which corrodes Abrahamic claims.

The literal truth of much of the content of the Bible and Qur'an has been disproved ages ago, but it doesn't matter. Plenty of Christians and Muslims take it as allegory. The Abrahamic faiths will, I think, last for many millennia yet, at least.

 

[gsa]

That really rings true. At least in that aspect. Cheers for the perspective.



I have no issue with monotheism myself, at least not per se.

What about poly-, heno-, katheno-, pan-, panen- and transtheism, or monistic conceptions of God?

The emphasis is on Abrahamic monotheism for a reason. The others may be superstitious, but they're at least comparatively peaceful and tolerant.

 

[gsa]

The literal truth of much of the content of the Bible and Qur'an has been disproved ages ago, but it doesn't matter. Plenty of Christians and Muslims take it as allegory. The Abrahamic faiths will, I think, last for many millennia yet, at least.

They may exist as cultural relics, but true believers, in a hundred years or so, will be as mainstream as the Amish, I imagine.

 

[Kirran]

The emphasis is on Abrahamic monotheism for a reason. The others may be superstitious, but they're at least comparatively peaceful and tolerant.

What about the Quakers? The Ahmadis? The Qur'anists? The Independent Catholics?

 

[Kirran]

They may exist as cultural relics, but true believers, in a hundred years or so, will be as mainstream as the Amish, I imagine.

I doubt this myself. I think they'll keep on going strong.

 

[Riverwolf]

Truth and cultural dominance are not mutually exclusive in this case. Personally, I want both. Or rather, the elimination of the cultural strength of monotheism. And the best way to get that is by promoting truth, which corrodes Abrahamic claims.

Well, I don't want to be culturally dominated by either one, frankly. I don't see much truth in either.

I'd like to be a polytheist in peace without having to worry about being thought of as evil because devil, or mentally challenged because theist. Remember that it was us who got the short end of Rome's imperialism, both before and after the conversion. Our ways barely survived. Now in the US, the Maypole is all but forgotten because of somehow being associated with socialism first, then communism later.

 

[Kirran]

Well, I don't want to be culturally dominated by either one, frankly. I don't see much truth in either.

I'd like to be a polytheist in peace without having to worry about being thought of as evil because devil, or mentally challenged because theist. Remember that it was us who got the short end of Rome's imperialism, both before and after the conversion. Our ways barely survived. Now in the US, the Maypole is all but forgotten because of somehow being associated with socialism first, then communism later.

Pagan solidarity!

If they just charge you some extra tax, and set aside the butchering and the toilet-cleaning for you, is it OK?

 

[Riverwolf]

The emphasis is on Abrahamic monotheism for a reason. The others may be superstitious, but they're at least comparatively peaceful and tolerant.

Dude... take it from an Asatruar. Neither one of us wants Asatru to become big and mainstream. Not in its current state.

 

[Kirran]

Dude... take it from an Asatruar. Neither one of us wants Asatru to become big and mainstream. Not in its current state.

It'll reach a much lower ceiling in numbers in the WN side than the other side.

Are there any non-ethnic European Asatruars that you know of?

 

[gsa]

Well, I don't want to be culturally dominated by either one, frankly. I don't see much truth in either.

I'd like to be a polytheist in peace without having to worry about being thought of as evil because devil, or mentally challenged because theist. Remember that it was us who got the short end of Rome's imperialism, both before and after the conversion. Our ways barely survived. Now in the US, the Maypole is all but forgotten because of somehow being associated with socialism first, then communism later.

I don't care if atheism dominates the culture; a quarter or more, combined with a healthy dose of agnostics and just nones, is enough to keep the culture secular I suspect.

That said, we all have a shared pagan ancestry that was destroyed by monotheism. I'm fine with the neopagan revival, but the cultural history belongs to everyone.

 

[Riverwolf]

It'll reach a much lower ceiling in numbers in the WN side than the other side.

Are there any non-ethnic European Asatruars that you know of?

The ones in Iceland?

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by WN. I'm also not entirely aware of the exact state of Asatru in Europe, other than that... it exists. I couldn't say if the white-supremacist aspect comprises a majority or minority, I just know that it exists and is quite vocal.

 

[Kirran]

Secularism could exist in a society lacking a single atheist, I believe. I am also in favour of secularism. Strongly.

On that note, good night.

 

[gsa]

What about the Quakers? The Ahmadis? The Qur'anists? The Independent Catholics?

The Quakers are dying off, the Ahmadis and Quranists are only marginally better than other Sunni, and Indy catholicity is nondescript.

 

[Kirran]

The ones in Iceland?

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by WN. I'm also not entirely aware of the exact state of Asatru in Europe, other than that... it exists. I couldn't say if the white-supremacist aspect comprises a majority or minority, I just know that it exists and is quite vocal.

Sorry, I probably misunderstood you. I assume you were saying that you didn't want it to grow to huge size because of the white supremacists (WN = white nationalist).

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't care if atheism dominates the culture; a quarter or more, combined with a healthy dose of agnostics and just nones, is enough to keep the culture secular I suspect.

That said, we all have a shared pagan ancestry that was destroyed by monotheism. I'm fine with the neopagan revival, but the cultural history belongs to everyone.

I'm fine if atheism or just secularism dominates. They're not inherently opposed to me. I am a pluralist, and very much a secularist when it comes to state matters.

And yes, the history is all of ours. It's why I said "us". Like in the Old Times, doesn't matter what you personally believe or practice (mileage might have varied from tribe to tribe, but still). Luckily, the destruction wasn't actually as complete as many might have thought. But much was still lost. It's also worth remembering that as far as Lore is concerned, we owe what we do have to Christian monks writing down their favorite stories.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry, I probably misunderstood you. I assume you were saying that you didn't want it to grow to huge size because of the white supremacists (WN = white nationalist).

Oh. Yes, I was referring to that crowd.

 

[gsa]

I'm fine if atheism or just secularism dominates. They're not inherently opposed to me. I am a pluralist, and very much a secularist when it comes to state matters.

And yes, the history is all of ours. It's why I said "us". Like in the Old Times, doesn't matter what you personally believe or practice (mileage might have varied from tribe to tribe, but still). Luckily, the destruction wasn't actually as complete as many might have thought. But much was still lost. It's also worth remembering that as far as Lore is concerned, we owe what we do have to Christian monks writing down their favorite stories.

That's true, about the monks, although they probably corrupted it as well. And we owe them nothing when it comes to Roman and Greek myths.

We need a healthy number of skeptics, I think, to keep religious fanaticism at bay.

 

[LuisDantas]

Good, that turned out well for the RCC.

From a perspective of societal influence, it mostly did. But at too high a price, particularly when it comes to their moral relevance and intellectual honesty. I would rather not follow their lead in that regard.

To be clear, this is not my own argument. I was just pointing to terms that were better than fundamentalist.

Yes, I understood that clearly. I would rather not encourage the use of that wording either. It is misleading.

(...)

I think it could easily be said that both the fundamentalists and the antitheist 'fundamentalists' are trying to make these strawmen accurate, the latter so that the religion can be discredited. Or, they actually believe these strawmen. (Strawmen or strawmans?)

If an antitheist wants to make such strawmen accurate, then he is very much a hypocrite and deserves little respect. I figure there may be a few that sincerely believe that they are accurate already, though. The best possible way of dealing with them is giving them exposure and if at all possible close contact with counter-examples.

Antitheists ought to faithfully represent that what they criticize.

Very true, the level of power varies. But I think as atheism becomes more entrenched in societies, its more intolerant faces will gain more legitimacy.

Gosh, I sure hope not. I expect and want them to self-destruct or perhaps simply learn better, which is supposed to amount to the same.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

U think homosexuals are not suffering aids?
Dude go to the clinics
U see full of them

The vast majority of people with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual black Africans. It's decimating them in many areas. You want to go to Africa, meet a child who has lost both his parents and is infected with it himself and make rude faces at him?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, my very survival is unnatural on two counts then Although my appendix hadn't actually ruptured yet, admittedly.

Also, I guess the operation where I had the peanut removed from my lung counts. Three!

C-section babies unite! I was also a month premature. I just couldn't wait to make my grand entrance into the world!