Why I don't believe in "God"

[Magic Man]

I'm sorry to hear this, blah. I hope you find something to make you happy or at least happier. I think you've come to a good place if you want to discuss God and religion. I agree that there is no God, but that doesn't mean life is all crap and means nothing. I hope you can find some answers and peace here.

 

[blah782]

I almost don't want to post in this thread, but you did put it in the debate section, so...

Forgive me if this has already been said, but that is atheism.


There are no words for how deeply I sympathize. I've been there, EXACTLY. I'm sure the details differ, but I could have written this post at one point. :hug:

The thing is, that's not a good reason to disbelieve. It comes from anger, not reason. It's spite. God isn't a vending machine.

I think this is a major flaw in the popular conception of God as a loving, protective parent. Life sucks sometimes, and all the faith in the world can't change that.


You're right, those are excuses, and they p***ed me off, too. But I've come to see that it's just that God doesn't work that way. Our expectations are too high. The way it does work is it opens you up to reserves of strength you didn't know you had. It's all you, in the end.


But are you really? I said the same thing, but looking back, I was just having the spiritual equivalent of a temper tantrum.

I don't mean to belittle what you're going through. Quite the opposite in fact - I'm hoping my perspective can help you make peace with whatever worldview you choose.

Every Atheist I have ever met doesn't believe in anything. Maybe some people have a different definition of what an Atheist is. I asked my friend who is Atheist what she and her family believes when you die...she responded "You just die, you're worm food. There are no souls or heaven." I do not define myself as an Atheist, and I never have. I am very into spirits, astral projection, ghosts reincarnation and all those subject matters. I am a firm believer in many things spiritual. Which is why I always define myself as "spiritual, not religious."

Yes what you said is true, I am angry and hurt. But that is not what I am speaking from entirely. This wasn't the first time I have questioned the existence of a God. This is more like the last time I will question it. It was just the moment where I made up my mind on this matter, but I have for years prior not fully believed in a God. Thanks for your input.

 

[Magic Man]

Every Atheist I have ever met doesn't believe in anything.

That depends on what you mean by "anything". I am an atheist and I believe in compassion, love, dignity, not killing, treating others as I'd want to be treated, marriage, science, and many other things.

Maybe some people have a different definition of what an Atheist is. I asked my friend who is Atheist what she and her family believes when you die...she responded "You just die, you're worm food. There are no souls or heaven."

Well, that is one belief. I'm sure if asked about other subjects than God and the afterlife, you'd find that they believe in a great many things. There are also many atheists who do believe in souls and heaven, or at least some kind of afterlife. For instance, some Buddhists are atheists.

I do not define myself as an Atheist, and I never have. I am very into spirits, astral projection, ghosts reincarnation and all those subject matters. I am a firm believer in many things spiritual. Which is why I always define myself as "spiritual, not religious."

That's fine, but do you believe in a god?

Yes what you said is true, I am angry and hurt. But that is not what I am speaking from entirely. This wasn't the first time I have questioned the existence of a God. This is more like the last time I will question it. It was just the moment where I made up my mind on this matter, but I have for years prior not fully believed in a God. Thanks for your input.

I urge you to search around and spend some time here. I have learned a lot since starting here. I was an atheist who "didn't consider myself an atheist" when I started, as in I didn't believe in God or gods, but I didn't know what to call myself.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Not all prayer is good prayer.

Well....so much for prayer making one a better person.

Prayer isn't to change the lives of others directly but to change our own - our experience of life.

So, praying for others is useless since that is not what prayer is for. Man do you disagree with Jesus on this! Where do you get all these restrictions on prayer? It's certainly not from the Bible. Is it because you can see that praying for others has no effect? That was one of my early clues that religion had serious validity problems.

There is nothing we can do about dying. Death is a result of life. But we can change how we experience the death of others - even our own death.

Well, sure, there is nothing WE can do about dying. But God certainly has power over death if you believe the Bible. He raised Lazarus from the dead, not to mention himself. He heald many sick people who would have died prematurely because of their illnesses back then. Why not now? You're not saying that God is not capable of keeping a sick person from dying, are you?

 

[logician]

What happens in life really is based a lot on random events coming together. Sometimes they come together for the good, and sometimes for the bad. What you do with a situation defines who you are.

Also, there is no god manipulating events behind the scenes.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I'm sorry Blah. It's true that most people have been where you are, with differing details of trauma.

Sometimes what helps me is telling myself that the way I feel won't last forever. Sleep is a good way to help pass the healing time. Your subconscious works through your issues from the day during REM sleep. Also thinking of situations that others are in that are 10X worse than mine, which helps redirect my thoughts and attitude a little.

Much Love to you!

 

[DOTE]

Again I say, why would I believe in something I cannot see, hear or feel? I am supposed to believe in this being that hasn't showed me the slightest sign that he exists throughout my life? Then when I change and I pray and dedicate myself and still have no form of any valid proof he is there listening at all, I am not going to ignore that and act like I still think he i is out there.

This is easy to relate. First we can say (most of us) that we cannot see, feel, smell, taste or hear God. He isn't applicable to any sense, which is the only way we have to observe our life. The only description we have of his voice or the appearance of his form is from some scripture by some prophet. People say his actions are mysterious though in reality they are invisible. But just because we can't sense God doesn't mean we can discredit the idea. Don't knock it till you try it
So you haven't sensed or experienced God, neither have I, so in due scientific analysis we can say that God doesn't exist. However directed back at you is the problem of the brain. Have you ever seen yours, heard it or felt it, I'm guessing not and I'll assume you haven't smelled or tasted it as well. We could always get an MRI of your head then again if you can't believe a book that has survived thousands of years then why would you believe that newly printed picture. Trust me when i say i'm not insulting your intelligence when i used the comparison of a brain, its just a good comparison.

 

[DOTE]

Which is why I always define myself as "spiritual, not religious."

By the way, have you heard of the comedian Daniel Tosh

 

[Beaudreaux]

just because we can't sense God doesn't mean we can discredit the idea. Don't knock it till you try it

I felt this way for a while. It was when I went from being an atheist to an agnostic because I felt atheism commited the logical fallacy of the argument from ignorance. Just because there is no evidence for something does not prove that it doesn't exist.

However, this worldview doesn't really work in a practical sense. There is no evidence that giant, invisible, flying, air-breathing, mutant jellyfish exist either, yet I have no problem living my life without believing that they do. Ghosts, gremlins, Santa, Zeus....you cannot disprove the existence of any of these either, but most of us have no problem saying that we believe they do not exist.

So you haven't sensed or experienced God, neither have I, so in due scientific analysis we can say that God doesn't exist. However directed back at you is the problem of the brain. Have you ever seen yours, heard it or felt it, I'm guessing not and I'll assume you haven't smelled or tasted it as well.

There is ABUNDANT empirical evidence that human beings have brains. Add to that that the human brain CAN be touched, seen, smelled, tasted, etc. To assert that it is a matter of faith to believe there is a brain in your head is absurd.

We could always get an MRI of your head then again if you can't believe a book that has survived thousands of years then why would you believe that newly printed picture.

I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. You think that the Bible, a compilation of copies of copies of copies of texts that we do not have anymore, that has undergone numerous linquistic translations over hundreds of years, that among other things tells us that it's OK for fathers to sell their daughters into slavery and that homosexuals should be killed.......you think it is easier to believe the veracity of that book than the veracity of an MRI image produced by a trained medical doctor with state of the art equipment?

 

[Willamena]

There is ABUNDANT empirical evidence that human beings have brains. Add to that that the human brain CAN be touched, seen, smelled, tasted, etc. To assert that it is a matter of faith to believe there is a brain in your head is absurd.

There is a school of Hinduism that teaches that what is "empirical evidence" is acknowledged as such by our cognitive abilities. The whole world reduces to our ability to recognize it as such. We recognize touch, sight, smell, taste, etc. as such. We also recognize a brain as such.

 

[Magic Man]

However directed back at you is the problem of the brain. Have you ever seen yours, heard it or felt it, I'm guessing not and I'll assume you haven't smelled or tasted it as well. We could always get an MRI of your head then again if you can't believe a book that has survived thousands of years then why would you believe that newly printed picture.

So, you don't see the difference between a book and a photograph?

 

[DOTE]

There is ABUNDANT empirical evidence that human beings have brains. Add to that that the human brain CAN be touched, seen, smelled, tasted, etc. To assert that it is a matter of faith to believe there is a brain in your head is absurd..

I want to make sure I understand what you're saying here. You think that the Bible, a compilation of copies of copies of copies of texts that we do not have anymore, that has undergone numerous linquistic translations over hundreds of years, that among other things tells us that it's OK for fathers to sell their daughters into slavery and that homosexuals should be killed.......you think it is easier to believe the veracity of that book than the veracity of an MRI image produced by a trained medical doctor with state of the art equipment?

I'm not asking if there is a human brain in general but rather if you have ever touched, seen, smelled, or tasted YOUR brain. You can believe the accounts of whomever but self-discovery tends to be the most lasting. Belief in god is somewhat the same, though i know this isn't a perfect analogy
I am going to take a shot in the dark and say you don't appreciate the bible very much. Neither do i in some respects but your just stating facts that can be debated. You can say the bible was only interpreted wrong and the reader was evil.
Unless you can show one example in which the bible literally stood on its leather bound feet and proceeded to enslave young girls and slay homosexuals. And also if you are claiming that a doctor cannot make a mistake because he/she is trained and using state of the art equipment then good luck

 

[DOTE]

So, you don't see the difference between a book and a photograph?

They're both pools of information that you can draw conclusions from. Unless you mean the infallible proof that a photograph represents, too bad for photo shop though. But your right, a photograph does present a type of undeniable evidence. Unless you look at a MRI photo because i have no idea where the medulla oblongata rests (at least not in the MRI photo)

 

[Beaudreaux]

I am going to take a shot in the dark and say you don't appreciate the bible very much.

I dig the Bible. Read it from cover to cover and still read parts of it today. I just treat it like any other book I read. I appreciate the good parts (John 8:7) and reject the bad parts (Leviticus 20:9, etc.)

Neither do i in some respects but your just stating facts that can be debated. You can say the bible was only interpreted wrong and the reader was evil.

Please help me with the interpretation of these sections of Leviticus 20. The context of this chapter (so that neither of us takes the reading out of context) is that God is telling Moses what laws to enact with his people before God drives other nations aways and give the Jews their land. It is the punishment he orders (usually death) that is most telling. Clearly God thought these were good laws. Do you?

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

18 " 'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.

22 " 'Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out.

And also if you are claiming that a doctor cannot make a mistake because he/she is trained and using state of the art equipment then good luck

So, if you went to a doctor for an exam and he/she told you that your MRI showed a tumor in your brain, would you:

A. Read in the Bible that God answers prayers and protects the faithful and so do nothing more than pray to be well.

B. Get yourself and your impractical assertions into modern medical treatment as fast as possible.
​

 

[Alla Prima]

Well....so much for prayer making one a better person.

Prayer performed with the right motivation will (I believe) produce positive results for the one doing the praying.

So, praying for others is useless since that is not what prayer is for. Man do you disagree with Jesus on this! Where do you get all these restrictions on prayer? It's certainly not from the Bible. Is it because you can see that praying for others has no effect? That was one of my early clues that religion had serious validity problems.

Not completely useless no. If we can become better people we can help and maybe influence those who are less fortunate. I believe we all have to do it ourselves. We get help from others but we're basically alone. There's no 'God' watching over us. I believe in our own divinity. We have each other.

Well, sure, there is nothing WE can do about dying. But God certainly has power over death if you believe the Bible. He raised Lazarus from the dead, not to mention himself. He heald many sick people who would have died prematurely because of their illnesses back then. Why not now? You're not saying that God is not capable of keeping a sick person from dying, are you?

Maybe there are gods capable of keeping a sick person from dying I don't know but praying to 'God' to keep a sick person from dying is a waste of time if the idea is to keep the person from dying that is.

 

[DOTE]

Please help me with the interpretation of these sections of Leviticus 20. The context of this chapter (so that neither of us takes the reading out of context) is that God is telling Moses what laws to enact with his people before God drives other nations aways and give the Jews their land. It is the punishment he orders (usually death) that is most telling. Clearly God thought these were good laws. Do you?

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

18 " 'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.

22 " 'Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out.



So, if you went to a doctor for an exam and he/she told you that your MRI showed a tumor in your brain, would you:

A. Read in the Bible that God answers prayers and protects the faithful and so do nothing more than pray to be well.

B. Get yourself and your impractical assertions into modern medical treatment as fast as possible.​

Yeesh! i haven't read Leviticus yet so thanks for the heads up. I most definitely don't agree with those verses.

As for the doctor exam, your mixing analogies now. The doctor was supposed to exemplify a priest, prophet, pope or whatever ecclesiastical leader you may worship with. The MRI scan was supposed to be like the bible or whatever book of doctrine you read. But the way your twisting the analogy now is like a prophet has foretold a demon inside and that you can either

A. get a MRI and know that doctors help people and that they can help you for the right cost

B. get you and your sins into a holy sanctuary for spiritually cleansing

Needless to say, i'm confused :help:

 

[roli]

I am not an Atheist let me start off by saying. I believe in an afterlife, I don't believe in God anymore at all. I was always on and off about the existence of God, not closed minded at all....I even prayed from time to time. Here is my story:

I have always had a hard life since birth basically. This isn't a sob story, this is just some info on my past. Last week something devastating happened to me, it was the final straw. I won't get into details but it was/is very traumatic for me. I cried longer/harder than I have in my life and it was the first time I really really wanted to die. I am a strong person and I have dealt with a lot, but this was the ONLY thing I had left in my life.

After about a full day/night of sobbing in bed, I woke up and got desperate. I started to pray. I prayed like I have never prayed before. I prayed for a miracle and that God would help me and not let this nightmare be true (nobody died so I wasn't asking for someone to come back to life or anything impossible). I began to read up on religions.. yes me, someone who was always against bible belts. I began to meditate, pray NON stop..I literally prayed probably hundreds of times within one week alone. Long heart felt prayers. Not just asking him to help me and nothing more. I promised I would change my ways, I would become more spiritual..I would pray every single day of my life, I would do anything...if he please just helped me. For the first time I felt close to "God".

Inside I felt like I had changed, I began to believe "God" would actually help me. I felt positive, I felt spiritual and connected to "God". I prayed to him, I wrote to him, I talked to him and told him everything. I even apologized for every sin I have ever committed. I was fully prepared to be a spiritual person, and to change my ways. I felt things were going good and God was going to give me a chance. Today I took a huge blow.

God did NOT do a damn thing to help me. God officially let my misery come true. After everything I have been through, he took the one thing I had away from me. After my prayers, after I felt how much I had changed, after everything was going well. I was fooled. I tricked myself into believing there was a "God" helping me. That I was actually talking to someone who cared about me and was going to help me if I prayed hard enough, repented my sins and changed my ways. I believed that "God" was there. He was NEVER there.

Now I feel broken, I feel dead inside. I have lost every single thing that meant something to me in my life. The odd thing is, I am not only talking about what happened to me. I lost "God" too. I felt like he was a friend for the first time, I felt like I could get help from him. I turned to this invisible being and I did every single thing I could to get help from him. There is no God. I am so beyond sick of people making excuses saying "God works in mysterious ways". I am also sick of people saying "If it wasn't in God's will, it won't happen." That is an EXCUSE. That is something you say when your prayers don't come true, and when they consequently do...it's all "praise God".

I don't care what you all believe I am not in any way trying to convince you to believe what I do. But now I am positive there is NO God. This was the final straw. I am done trying to convince myself that something exists when I have absolutely nothing in my life to show me he does. No God would be this cruel. There are coincidences in life and there is luck.

I'm sorry for your personal experince or the lack thereof,it's seldom what we expect when we pray to God for answers, direction and guidance. We have our idea of what or how it should turn out, yet it seldom happens according to our ideas.
Does this make it empty and meaningless, I beg to differ, but that is a personal journey we all must take through many a road blocks and disappointing outcomes.
Getting back up and pressing on is what character and integrity is made of, so my words to you are, keep up the good fight to find the answers your looking for.

It seems when we worry,doubt or become frustrated about anything in life, it never is what it appears ,via our feelings and emotions and it's no different with the results of our efforts to seek God.

 

[Muffled]

I am not an Atheist let me start off by saying. I believe in an afterlife, I don't believe in God anymore at all. I was always on and off about the existence of God, not closed minded at all....I even prayed from time to time. Here is my story:

I have always had a hard life since birth basically. This isn't a sob story, this is just some info on my past. Last week something devastating happened to me, it was the final straw. I won't get into details but it was/is very traumatic for me. I cried longer/harder than I have in my life and it was the first time I really really wanted to die. I am a strong person and I have dealt with a lot, but this was the ONLY thing I had left in my life.

After about a full day/night of sobbing in bed, I woke up and got desperate. I started to pray. I prayed like I have never prayed before. I prayed for a miracle and that God would help me and not let this nightmare be true (nobody died so I wasn't asking for someone to come back to life or anything impossible). I began to read up on religions.. yes me, someone who was always against bible belts. I began to meditate, pray NON stop..I literally prayed probably hundreds of times within one week alone. Long heart felt prayers. Not just asking him to help me and nothing more. I promised I would change my ways, I would become more spiritual..I would pray every single day of my life, I would do anything...if he please just helped me. For the first time I felt close to "God".

Inside I felt like I had changed, I began to believe "God" would actually help me. I felt positive, I felt spiritual and connected to "God". I prayed to him, I wrote to him, I talked to him and told him everything. I even apologized for every sin I have ever committed. I was fully prepared to be a spiritual person, and to change my ways. I felt things were going good and God was going to give me a chance. Today I took a huge blow.

God did NOT do a damn thing to help me. God officially let my misery come true. After everything I have been through, he took the one thing I had away from me. After my prayers, after I felt how much I had changed, after everything was going well. I was fooled. I tricked myself into believing there was a "God" helping me. That I was actually talking to someone who cared about me and was going to help me if I prayed hard enough, repented my sins and changed my ways. I believed that "God" was there. He was NEVER there.

Now I feel broken, I feel dead inside. I have lost every single thing that meant something to me in my life. The odd thing is, I am not only talking about what happened to me. I lost "God" too. I felt like he was a friend for the first time, I felt like I could get help from him. I turned to this invisible being and I did every single thing I could to get help from him. There is no God. I am so beyond sick of people making excuses saying "God works in mysterious ways". I am also sick of people saying "If it wasn't in God's will, it won't happen." That is an EXCUSE. That is something you say when your prayers don't come true, and when they consequently do...it's all "praise God".

I don't care what you all believe I am not in any way trying to convince you to believe what I do. But now I am positive there is NO God. This was the final straw. I am done trying to convince myself that something exists when I have absolutely nothing in my life to show me he does. No God would be this cruel. There are coincidences in life and there is luck.

Your story convinces me that there is a God. I wouldn't have answered your prayer either.

 

[Beaudreaux]

As for the doctor exam, your mixing analogies now. The doctor was supposed to exemplify a priest, prophet, pope or whatever ecclesiastical leader you may worship with. The MRI scan was supposed to be like the bible or whatever book of doctrine you read. But the way your twisting the analogy now is like a prophet has foretold a demon inside and that you can either

A. get a MRI and know that doctors help people and that they can help you for the right cost

B. get you and your sins into a holy sanctuary for spiritually cleansing

Needless to say, i'm confused :help:

lol. Sorry about that. I completely misunderstood. As for my dirty spirit, wash is on Sunday.

 

[Magic Man]

They're both pools of information that you can draw conclusions from. Unless you mean the infallible proof that a photograph represents, too bad for photo shop though. But your right, a photograph does present a type of undeniable evidence. Unless you look at a MRI photo because i have no idea where the medulla oblongata rests (at least not in the MRI photo)

Just because you don't know where something is in the photo doesn't mean it's not there.

Also, as far as Photoshop, you can't really Photoshop an MRI or X-rays or ultrasounds. It wouldn't make sense either. Unless you have some reason to believe that someone would do that, it makes sense to assume you're seeing the real thing. With the Bible, it makes more sense to take it as myth and alegory.

They are both things you can draw conclusions from, but a book is much more open for interpretation than a photo.