Why I think a lot of the Bible is False

[Riverwolf]

Daeksttariscool,

The Bible also teaches us that God is perfect and is a loving God. If this were true, how come he would damn someone who does not believe in him.
If this were true???????????? I don’t think that God damns someone because they don’t believe in Him. I think that those that don’t believe damned themselves.

I agree with you on the "damn ourselves", though I disagree on having to believe, because...

But the reasons for Christians to believe is to find the way back to God (the one mentioned in the Bible), we believe in what Jesus said Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. So if one wants to make it to God’s kingdom (Jesus father) one must be a Christian, that’s the Christian doctrine.

Then I guess the masses are screwed, right? Then again, didn't Jesus at one point say something along the lines of(can't cite, too lazy; I read whole gospels, not just single passages) "Those who do not hear the Word will be judged according to what is in their heart."?

Besides, Jesus never really established exactly what the Kingdom of God really is, so it's completely open to personal interpretation.

 

[Heneni]

"Those who do not hear the Word will be judged according to what is in their heart."?

Nope, thats not in there. Good try though!

 

[Nameison]

In the beginning of this issue the debate was about the story's in the bible that dont add up.. and the responses were , dont take them literal the book is very old just take the good things out of the book and be happy...People what if the bible was just that a symbolic story and the people in the bibe were all fiction as you suggest.. Hm.. Symbolic of what ? Planets? maybe Your inner self? LIke as above so is below lol..

 

[Heneni]

In the beginning of this issue the debate was about the story's in the bible that dont add up.. and the responses were , dont take them literal the book is very old just take the good things out of the book and be happy...People what if the bible was just that a symbolic story and the people in the bibe were all fiction as you suggest.. Hm.. Symbolic of what ? Planets? maybe Your inner self? LIke as above so is below lol..

Cinderella got her shoe back, that was a nice story. But the story in the bible hasnt ended yet. And the story in the bible involves the entire human race. The stakes are a bit higher. Each one of us is in some way involved in this story. Which is probably why the book has recieved so much attention.

Cinderella (fictional) did not exist, and so she couldnt speculate about the accuracy of her story. We do exist, and we are speculating all the time, whether our story in the bible, is going to pan out the way it says it will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

We do exist, and we are speculating all the time, ...

Some speculation being informed, rational, coherent - other being witless babble: not all speculation is created equal.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I just found this thread, but I have to ask a basic question -

If one thinks that parts of the Bible are false, does it still remain as the word of God? If so, then how do you reconcile the fact that God would give us false information?

 

[emiliano]

Then I guess the masses are screwed, right? Then again, didn't Jesus at one point say something along the lines of(can't cite, too lazy; I read whole gospels, not just single passages) "Those who do not hear the Word will be judged according to what is in their heart."?

</I>Riverwolf, scriptures are such a wonderful thing, please don&#8217;t treat them with disrespect, God promise to the believer is that He (God himself) will write His Law in their heart and He will be their God and we will be His people. Jer 31:33 but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord; I will put My Laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
Here is something to ponder in for a while: Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
His name is Jesus Christ and his follower are Christians, this is the answer to the OP &#8220;You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person and good people should not be damned. To me such a god is far from loving and perfect&#8221; Christian don&#8217;t believe because they think that this makes them good, being good is easy ( doing good deeds every now and then) been obedient to God is another.

Besides, Jesus never really established exactly what the Kingdom of God really is, so it's completely open to personal interpretation.

What? If you are genuinely interested read and meditate on this: Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here.
There are and there will be many that will be left out of this kingdom
Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.
Truth is that the Lord preached about this kingdom and that we can learn how is it like and how to get there.

 

[emiliano]

I just found this thread, but I have to ask a basic question -

If one thinks that parts of the Bible are false, does it still remain as the word of God? If so, then how do you reconcile the fact that God would give us false information?

Staying with the Op “The Bible also teaches us that God is perfect and is a loving God” I’ll say that to it mover if he can’t understand what been perfect and good entails then it is false, the Bible answer to him is Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.
In other word this is a mystery to him/her and it will remain so till God in His mercy cures his blindness, Jam 1:5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him.
Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing. For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed.Faith is a gift from God Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brothers.
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness nor shadow of turning.
But it is easier to say I don’t understand this or that in the bible therefore the bible is false, an example is the literal reading of genesis, measuring Times in humans terms and reading this as history. I believe that this passages are allegorical and written on a need to know bases, God does much more than inspire book to bring his elect back to Him, I always think in the way that He brought Saul of Tarsus to faith.

 

[Riverwolf]

</I>Riverwolf, scriptures are such a wonderful thing, please don’t treat them with disrespect, God promise to the believer is that He (God himself) will write His Law in their heart and He will be their God and we will be His people. Jer 31:33 but this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, says Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord; I will put My Laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
Here is something to ponder in for a while: Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
His name is Jesus Christ and his follower are Christians, this is the answer to the OP “You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person and good people should not be damned. To me such a god is far from loving and perfect” Christian don’t believe because they think that this makes them good, being good is easy ( doing good deeds every now and then) been obedient to God is another.
What? If you are genuinely interested read and meditate on this: Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here.
There are and there will be many that will be left out of this kingdom
Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.
Truth is that the Lord preached about this kingdom and that we can learn how is it like and how to get there.

Do I have to remind you I don't consider what Paul said to be relevant? And Jeremiah spoke of the Israelites in that passage, if you read the rest of it.

Besides, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you. (Gospel of Luke, 17:20-21)

And where did you feel I disrespected the Scripture? I agree that the Gospel: ALL of it mind you(gnostic included); is a wonderful thing: truly good news. And I say that not typing of "salvation" but of "enlightenment". (the only part of the New Testament I really listen to is the Gospel; not the epistles and letters; or the Apocalypse of John.) And is it not okay to crack a small Biblical joke? I really can't remember where I read: "And they will be judged according to what is in their hearts" and as Heneni pointed out, Jesus appearantly never said that. (though I'm sure he said something along those lines) I mean: come on. If God doesn't have a sense of humor, I'm Mickey Mouse!

I treat all scripture: that is, writing; with respect: from the most holy of scriptures to the most vulgar porn novel. I think any written word, "true" or "false" should be preciously kept, especially in a time when English in particular is deteriorating rapidly, and people speak and write empty words that don't really "mean" anything and the original purposes of grammatical punctuation is fast being forgotten.

I would dare to say that before we try to understand the words of a guy that not even his direct followers could get right, we should try learning the language being spoken first, in our case, English. *looks around for Hamlet*

 

[emiliano]

Do I have to remind you I don't consider what Paul said to be relevant? And Jeremiah spoke of the Israelites in that passage, if you read the rest of it.

Besides, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you. (Gospel of Luke, 17:20-21)

And where did you feel I disrespected the Scripture? I agree that the Gospel: ALL of it mind you(gnostic included); is a wonderful thing: truly good news. And I say that not typing of "salvation" but of "enlightenment". (the only part of the New Testament I really listen to is the Gospel; not the epistles and letters; or the Apocalypse of John.) And is it not okay to crack a small Biblical joke? I really can't remember where I read: "And they will be judged according to what is in their hearts" and as Heneni pointed out, Jesus appearantly never said that. (though I'm sure he said something along those lines) I mean: come on. If God doesn't have a sense of humor, I'm Mickey Mouse!

I treat all scripture: that is, writing; with respect: from the most holy of scriptures to the most vulgar porn novel. I think any written word, "true" or "false" should be preciously kept, especially in a time when English in particular is deteriorating rapidly, and people speak and write empty words that don't really "mean" anything and the original purposes of grammatical punctuation is fast being forgotten.

I would dare to say that before we try to understand the words of a guy that not even his direct followers could get right, we should try learning the language being spoken first, in our case, English. *looks around for Hamlet*

Riverwolf, if you have such respect for the Gospels, how come you wrote “didn't Jesus at one point say something along the lines of(can't cite, too lazy; I read whole gospels, not just single passages)"? And blame you lack of understanding on translations and antiquity of the cannon book?

I would dare to say that before we try to understand the words of a guy that not even his direct followers could get right, we should try learning the language being spoken first, in our case, English. *looks around for Hamlet*

Do you mean that you read scriptures in the same way that you read Hamlet? I don’t, the only work that I use as help are the writing of Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm, Could I get any help in these matters from Hamlet? I you are interested in knowing what the Kingdom of God is like read the parables that the Lord taught and are recorded in the Gospels, and this is twitting “Besides, Jesus never really established exactly what the Kingdom of God really is, so it's completely open to personal interpretation”

 

[raibeart]

To Weddy.
And that is why I think the Bible is BS. It portreys God as selfish( You either believe in him or you go to hell.) I don't believe God is selfish and I don't believe you have to believe in him to get to Heaven. Say your a Hindu who is raised in an area where there are no Christians or any way of learning about God, chances are you wont be a Christian. Should you go to hell then? Should you go to hell because you find it to hard to believe in God or the Bible, but are still a good person?

To a Christian yes, to a Jew no. The reason a Jew would not think so, is because it is prophisied that on the coming of the Messiah, there will be only one religion, and all will be a servant to G-D. However the messiah will in no way be a diety. Now those who then refuse to believe in G-D, will then be punished.

Now as far as the Christians and Catholics are concerned they are too judgemental and will do whatever they can to convert you to believe that Jesus was the massiah by putting the fear of going to hell into you.

 

[Riverwolf]

To a Christian yes, to a Jew no. The reason a Jew would not think so, is because it is prophisied that on the coming of the Messiah, there will be only one religion, and all will be a servant to G-D. However the messiah will in no way be a diety. Now those who then refuse to believe in G-D, will then be punished.

Now as far as the Christians and Catholics are concerned they are too judgemental and will do whatever they can to convert you to believe that Jesus was the massiah by putting the fear of going to hell into you.

Only some do that. Not all. On another forum I have a Catholic friend, and she's never once tried to get me to convert.

 

[raibeart]

Only some do that. Not all. On another forum I have a Catholic friend, and she's never once tried to get me to convert.

I wasn't at all trying to say that all of them do that. If that is what people got I apologize. What I mean though is that alot of Catholics and Christians that are in the area that has a poppulation of roughly 2 million people.

 

[Autodidact]

I can see why you are horribly confused. You asked a Christian.

:bow:

 

[Riverwolf]

Riverwolf, if you have such respect for the Gospels, how come you wrote “didn't Jesus at one point say something along the lines of(can't cite, too lazy; I read whole gospels, not just single passages)"? And blame you lack of understanding on translations and antiquity of the cannon book? Do you mean that you read scriptures in the same way that you read Hamlet? I don’t, the only work that I use as help are the writing of Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm, Could I get any help in these matters from Hamlet? I you are interested in knowing what the Kingdom of God is like read the parables that the Lord taught and are recorded in the Gospels, and this is twitting “Besides, Jesus never really established exactly what the Kingdom of God really is, so it's completely open to personal interpretation”

Clearly we're having some miscommunication going on here, and I mostly take the fault for it. (my communication skills have always been lousy)

First of all, I apologize if my words are offending you. But in my heart I have nothing but respect for the Gospel, and if I misquote it, that is my own error which is to be corrected, which Heneni did. (thanks again; appearantly I was actually quoting Paul in his letter to the Romans... whaddya know, something he said I agree with) And I do know of the parables where Jesus describes the Kingdom of God, but they're very vague. I don't think Jesus intended for that; it simply was that no words in the tongues of man can describe what the Kingdom of God is like, so he used parables. And they made it seem like the Kingdom of God is not a kingdom at all, but a state of mind.

Now, when I made the remark of *searching for Hamlet*, it was mostly referencing Shakespeare in general, as he was, without question, a master of the English language(better than King James, that's for sure), and if one can't understand him, how can he expect to understand something such as an English Bible? It doesn't matter which version of the English Bibles one is using; in order to make it accurate, it has to be archaic in nature, and that can be difficult to understand. And as one cannot understand Shakespeare's plays without reading the whole play, it is the same with the Gospel, that it means nothing when it is abridged. Take the Good Samaritan parable, for instance. While it in itself is a good story and a good lesson, the lesson being taught, that is how to act towards one's neighbor, is unclear without the disciples asking Jesus how to act.

Oh, and so you're aware, when I say the Gospel, I'm only referring the stories and sayings of Jesus, not the rest of the canonized New Testament. (from Acts onward)

 

[emiliano]

Riverwolf

Made it seem like the Kingdom of God is not a kingdom at all, but a state of mind?

Do you mean a spiritual Kingdom a non physical kingdom?
Here is a problem : Joh 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
The Apostle Paul spoke in those terms (spiritual Kingdom) in His discourse on the corruptible physical realm and the incorruptible spiritual realm.
1Co 9:25 And everyone who strives for the mastery is temperate in all things. Then those truly that they may receive a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible.
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
Any that is physical is corruptible, it decays and dies, eg. Our bodies the process starts at birth and culminate at death, anything spiritual is eternal/incorruptible.
The Apostle Peter also thought on the same limes 1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled, and unfading, reserved in Heaven for you
1Pe 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the living Word of God, and abiding forever.
This is a very old argument and it has not been resolved, there are those that believe that this kingdom will be here on earth living in glorified bodies, other that it is a spiritual kingdom and that we will be like the Angels, perhaps you should have a look at the epistles,
Mar 4:11 And He said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But to those outside, all these things are given in parables

 

[Jayell]

To a Christian yes, to a Jew no. The reason a Jew would not think so, is because it is prophisied that on the coming of the Messiah, there will be only one religion, and all will be a servant to G-D. However the messiah will in no way be a diety. Now those who then refuse to believe in G-D, will then be punished.

Where can I read about this?

 

[Riverwolf]

Riverwolf
Do you mean a spiritual Kingdom a non physical kingdom?
Here is a problem : Joh 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
The Apostle Paul spoke in those terms (spiritual Kingdom) in His discourse on the corruptible physical realm and the incorruptible spiritual realm.
1Co 9:25 And everyone who strives for the mastery is temperate in all things. Then those truly that they may receive a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible.
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
Any that is physical is corruptible, it decays and dies, eg. Our bodies the process starts at birth and culminate at death, anything spiritual is eternal/incorruptible.
The Apostle Peter also thought on the same limes 1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled, and unfading, reserved in Heaven for you
1Pe 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the living Word of God, and abiding forever.
This is a very old argument and it has not been resolved, there are those that believe that this kingdom will be here on earth living in glorified bodies, other that it is a spiritual kingdom and that we will be like the Angels, perhaps you should have a look at the epistles,
Mar 4:11 And He said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But to those outside, all these things are given in parables

How many times do I have to say it? I DO NOT CONSIDER PAUL'S WORDS TO BE VALID! I'm currently reading the epistle to the Romans, and typing it up for a project (details elsewhere on the forum), and I really don't like his judgmental interpretation of a man who never judged once in his life. Granted, I know he does have wisdom and was very knowledgeable of what has been written at the time, but I don't agree with his interpretation. If you believe he spoke the word of God, that's more than okay with me. (It better be; after all, who am I to tell someone who to believe?) But don't try to use his quotes to explain to me what Jesus said, because I don't agree with him on many points. (not on every point, but on many) It would be like me trying to explain to you why I think the Kingdom of God is a state of mind using the teachings of Buddha. While I believe the two spoke of much of the same thing, you don't (from what I gather), and thus it would be useless for me to use his teachings to justify to you how I interpret Jesus.

Now, as for John's epistles (and gospel), I have read them a few times, and while I don't agree with everything he said, I do like him better than Paul. (certainly John's a better writer ) He takes a more mystical approach to the whole thing, and I like that, as I am an aspiring mystic. He's also not quite as... passionate, I guess... as Paul, who tends to write as if he's being a street preacher trying to reach a hundred people ignoring him. Then again, Paul (nor any of the NT writers) never intended every one of his documents to become bound into a single volume for a "universal" () church, so...

But I consider the epistles to be on the same level as the various commentaries that appear in some study Bibles today, which I never read. This is the reason: I want my own interpretation of the Source, not someone else's.

 

[Riverwolf]

Where can I read about this?

Well, Jesus himself said that a kingdom divided is doomed to fall, so...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Assuming you are a follower and believe any thing that book says.....

What the Bible says is what we are discussing.